Tradition Be Damned!

[JimLucas]

C/C# and the likes will not be easy to play exactly because of the fixed hand and lots of playing with the same finger across the rows.

The solution is real though: put naturals and their semitones on different sides of concertina.

That inspires me to imagine another potential solution, though I won't claim that playing it will feel much like current anglos, except somewhat in the key of C:

Left hand, C row: unchanged

Right hand, "C" row: mirror the left-hand C row, but ½ step up (C#) or down (B )

... the mirroring is to minimize use of the little finger

... I think using B instead of C# gives better options for playing in common Irish/English folk keys (E and B in both directions, rather than F and C; some chords will be a problem in either case)

... the two outer ("bass") buttons on the B (or C#) side needn't be in the same relation to the others as on the C side, but could be other useful low notes, e.g., D, E, A

Left hand, second row: "duplicate" C row an octave higher

... did you wonder what I was going to do about a second octave?

... note that I said "second" row, not "G" row; I think the upper octave should be outboard of the C row, so the high/low relationship should be oriented like the standard C/G

... except for the very important pull B, in this row the 2 buttons under the little finger should probably have additional high notes, rather than duplicate lower ones

... note that there's no offset of the push-pull pattern between the octaves, as there is on current anglos, harmonicas, button accordions, etc.

... keeping the usual anglo pattern, the two rows would be slightly offset from each other, so that it's not difficult to use 2 separate fingers for octave jumps

... nevertheless, the buttons are close enough together to allow both buttons of an octave interval to be played by a single finger (parallel octaves, anyone?)

Right hand, second row: octave "duplicate" B (C#) row on the three inner buttons, with other useful (probably higher) notes on the other two

Additional comments:

... As suggested, this layout would give two full chromatic octaves, and a third octave below with holes in it, and the outer two buttons in the "upper" row could be used to extend above the 2-octave limit, either chromatically or not.

... It's easy to imagine various ways of extending this idea to a 3rd row. E.g., a 26-button version (5-5-3 on each side) could have 3 full chromatic octaves, a selection of bass notes, and the outer two buttons in the 2nd-octave row used to duplicate important notes in an opposite bellows direction.

... For ease of playing the repertoires most commonly discussed on C.net, maybe C isn't the most useful "core" key to base this on. I haven't yet tried to analyze that aspect, or in fact, playability in general. So far this is purely intellectual speculation.

Now I've lost interest in it: case is proven, problem solved, time to move on.

Sounds like you proved it could be built and used, but not that it was greatly superior to existing alternatives. Otherwise, it should have inspired you to adopt it as your primary instrument.

[m3838]

Um, the problem with Jim's suggestion is the lack of duplicates in opposite directions. It was my main problem to solve. It gives most of the chords and many with 7ths. The key of G is especially plentyful, if the "Mother" Concertina is C/G Anglo.

Also, what if you want to play in, say, Hawaian style, where you alternate between octaves, not merely playing them with one finger. That would be better achieved, if the octave higher notes are on the other side, not another row.

And yes, Jim, you are right, I have proven to myself, that I'm not a fool, my head is working, and I have designed a reasonable substitute for people, who want an inexpencive Anglo concertina, that is fully chromatic, able to play all kinds of music in 'any' key. There is no preference for the key in my design, much like English system. It's superior to existing Anglos, if you want to play chromatically, because semitones are not adjuscent, but logically placed on the other side in the most used octave of middle C.

It is also within reach of an average man: just buy used C/G Lachenal and replace 10 reeds in the G row.

It retains it's re-sale value, because you can put old reeds back.

Now I'm thinking of English system, where I'd like to take all the push reeds out, so the instrument will be twice lighter, play only on the pull, and all the valves will be a big air valve.

There was a discussion about it, but the problem with that Wheatstone was the old school of playing. Such instruments have to be kept in constant air pressure, otherwise the valves will open and the bellows will collapse. But constant pressure is the correct and hard to learn habbit. (It also requires good bellows. )

[ceemonster]

i play b/c box plus anglo concertina, and i can't say i'd prefer the concertina set up like b/c box. i'm astounded at how many more expressive options you have on concertina, though i love the voice of box [i'm a fan of more than one middle reed, plus about 10/11 cents of tremolo].

 

what i would like on concertina, and am hoping to have worked out by the time my name comes up for the 38-keyer i'm waiting for, is to have those extra keys tuned with the tonics & fifths i need for my fave east clare/east galway "flat keys"---namely, the missing directions & octaves now driving me nuts in c, f, b-flat and e-flat. i know what notes i want/need, just need to work out optimal placement. then i won't have to schlep around two concertinas.....