fiddlersgreen Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I have been thinking about buying a vintage Gibson Mandolin. I know concertina players hate to put out three to five grand for a top of the line vintage concertina, but good vintage 1900s Gibson mandolins from a dealer range from $1400 for the A model to $14,000 for some of the F4 models. It is odd that a new $500 mandolin will probably play much better than a $500 concertina. I was surprised to see how much the vintage Gibson mandolins cost and hope the same doesn’t happen to concertinas. Maybe someday we will remember when paying $3000 for a concertina as the “good old days”. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 (edited) I have been thinking about buying a vintage Gibson Mandolin. I know concertina players hate to put out three to five grand for a top of the line vintage concertina, but good vintage 1900s Gibson mandolins from a dealer range from $1400 for the A It's all relative. Vintage concertinas seem incredibly expensive -- but in-demand mandos and guitars are much worse. Check out Elderly Instruments or Mandolin Brothers for 30s-vintage Martins; some go for more than $100,000. And they don't even have all those levers and valves and things. I have a friend who just dropped 7K on a new Collings mando. Heck, a mando is just a bunch of wood and strings, doesn't even have any moving parts. Primitive, you might say. THe very best, most desirable old concertina -- maybe a Jeffries or linota -- probably sells for under 10K; that's below midrange for quality vintage fiddles (excuse me, violins), and considerably under what you'd pay for a great old bluegrass guitar. You can't even buy a great fiddle bow for that kind of money. That said, I hope the collectors/investment mania that has driven vintage guitar prices into the stratosphere doesn't come to infect the concertina world. BTW, fun playing with you at the T'giving dance, Green! Edited January 9, 2006 by Jim Besser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlersgreen Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Hi Jim, yes that was fun playing that dance and great that I finally got to meet you since I have heard all good things about the tina player for the Morris Dancers in Washington.... I am being drawn to the mandolin for reasons that are still murky but between learning the fiddle and the guitar flat picking from many years ago, it seems to fit. Learning other instruments besides the concertina might be a mistake but so far I thinks it has helped. I'll be at the Harper's Ferry fiddle retreat this coming weekend so I will be doing fiddle workshops by day and concertina by night. Jackel and Hyde maybe? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 (edited) Ibut good vintage 1900s Gibson mandolins from a dealer range from $1400 for the A model to $14,000 for some of the F4 models. True, but if you step up a little higher say, Lloyd Loar F-5, be ready to pony up into the bidding with $150,000 plus...and that's because the seller hasn't checked prices lately or maybe you are buying a very good copy being passed. Vintage concertinas are still far and way a deal in that market. Edited January 9, 2006 by Mark Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_mchale Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I would say that it is not so much that the concertinas are underpriced, but that by and large, most other instruments are over priced. There are some exceptions (particularly the top of the line Violins) but in general it seems to me that alot of the prices for some instruments are driven by collecting and speculation. To my mind if the price of an instrument is driven by demand among actual players of the instrument, then that reflects the real value of the instrument. If on the other hand it is purchased by someone who has no intention of ever playing it, but rather displaying it or more likely holding it for a while and then selling it, then it starts creating an inflated market. I am not an expert on Guitars or Mandolins, but I find it hard to believe that those markets are being driven purely by people who really want to play the instruments. Now that I think about it, one of the saddest things I can think of for any instrument is for it to fall into the hands of a collector who never plays the instrument. Instruments are tools, perhaps beautiful, perhaps ridiculously expensive, but a tool none the less. The real value of the instrument comes from the beauty and the joy that is created by the person playing it. From that perspective, a relatively cheap concertina, in the hands of a real expert is far more valuable than a Jefferies priced far higher that sits in a collection unplayed. Fortunately, it seems that the excellence of the moder makers have put a cap on the value of Jefferies and Wheatstones. Simply put, a new Suttner or Dipper can sound just as good (if a little different) and will probably cause its owner less trouble. Since the supply of those instruments is not fixed (at least as long as they stay in the business) it limits the number of people willing to bid the vintage instruments through the roof. -- Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Now that I think about it, one of the saddest things I can think of for any instrument is for it to fall into the hands of a collector who never plays the instrument. Instruments are tools, perhaps beautiful, perhaps ridiculously expensive, but a tool none the less. -- Bill I hear you Bill, but what is...is. A colleague of mine owns a beautiful Italian cello circa 1640. She made the choice to own the instrument rather than a home and they are very happy together. C'est la vie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Timson Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 A colleague of mine owns a beautiful Italian cello circa 1640. She made the choice to own the instrument rather than a home and they are very happy together. C'est la vie. Does she play it or just look at it? If the former, then her choice is maybe extreme but understandable to anyone who has ever played a really good instrument. If the latter, then I'm with Bill. What a waste! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Does she play it or just look at it? Chris She plays it and how! The two of them travel, performing with the period performance ensembles here and in Europe. Unfortunately it's a field that pays very little but she and Giovanni with his gut strings and astoundingly beautiful pine top pour out their souls to very appreciative if small audiences. Giovanni of course has his own ticket and is strapped into the seat next to her. She presented a lecture on the Bach Cello Suites this semester at the college and to watch and listen to her work was a transendant moment for me. Perhaps her choice is a bit out there, but at the end of her days it will have been a life well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Mills Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) [She plays it and how! The two of them travel, performing with the period performance ensembles here and in Europe. Unfortunately it's a field that pays very little but she and Giovanni with his gut strings and astoundingly beautiful pine top pour out their souls to very appreciative if small audiences. She presented a lecture on the Bach Cello Suites this semester at the college and to watch and listen to her work was a transendant moment for me. Perhaps her choice is a bit out there, but at the end of her days it will have been a life well spent. Is this Phoebe Carrai by chance? Her website describes a similar cello. I've been visiting her site very regularly for the past 6 months because you can play her Bach cello suite recordings from there. (Although I've been playing the Prelude from the 1st suite for 25 years on guitar, I can't get it right on the Hayden duet, so I've been trying to rethink it with a real cello version in mind and ear.) Edited January 10, 2006 by Stephen Mills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) Is this Phoebe Carrai by chance? Yes Stephen, that's her. I love her recording of the cello suites. Duet concertina and the suites..Yes! I did get the date wrong on the cello though. It should have been circa 1690. Mi dispiace Giovanni! Edited January 10, 2006 by Mark Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Timson Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 She plays it and how! Well then, there is no argument from me, Just, perhaps, some envy for such a life. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G. Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) here are pictures of my concertina. i think that the date is like 1948? i know that the name of the company was Scholer. I still have the original paper box. i think my parents found it on ebay for like 160-170$ http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sidlordofthe...r=/fe4e&.src=ph Edited January 11, 2006 by Mike G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 here are pictures of my concertina. i think that the date is like 1948? i know that the name of the company was Scholer. I still have the original paper box.i think my parents found it on ebay for like 160-170$ http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sidlordofthe...r=/fe4e&.src=ph So...........................................? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlersgreen Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Mike G. I guess the most important question about your concertina is 'do you play it'? I think when folks talk about vintage instruments they probably mean instruments that have developed a following due to their rarity and quality. An instrument that has been played for a hundred years and still performs as new or in some cases better is a testament as to its quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G. Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 yeah i play it i'm not very good yet but i'm practicing. as far as vintage instruments being played, every instrument i own is an antique. my favorite are the two violins that were passed down to me, one from my grandfather on one side of my dads family and another from the other great grandfather on the other side of my dads family. both violins are from the early 1800's and i play them everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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