40 buttons? Anglo

[Martin Essery]

I am currently playing a 30 button Rochelle-2, and feeling its limitations. I have played a Marcus and was instantly twice the player, so I know I need a better, quicker, instrument. But, do I get another 30, or go for a 40 button? I am mostly playing Bach and finding that some, especially chords, cannot be played on a 30. I am guessing a 40 button would improve matters but have never tried one so I do not know for sure. Funds are limited, so my choices are:

A. Get a better 30 button and edit Bach's work to be playable (it would hurt to do that!)

B. Get a cheap (Stagi) 40 button to try and upgrade if I like, but the recordings I have heard of the Stagi is not a tone I like, but that could be the recording.

C. Save up for a good (second hand) 40 button, not knowing if that is what I really want or need without playing one.

D. Travel to somewhere that has a 40 button to try, but I am in S. Wales (Britain) and on public transport, which would mean a two day round trip and a stay overnight somewhere.

I do not need a loud instrument, I will not be doing sessions, nor do I need a harsh penetrating tone. Soft and sweet will do me fine, clarinet like maybe rather than oboe like. This is for my own personal entertainment, although visitors generally get an earful 😄

I am really asking for experience from those who have played a 40, how was the transition? Was it worth it? I am already finding fingers awkward with things like an upper C#/D trill (which fingers would you use?), does that finger tangling get worse or better?  I am fast outgrowing the beginner instrument, so would the Stagi even be worth the bother?

Actually, I think I have answered myself to some degree. I would not lay out good cash without playing, feeling and hearing the instrument first hand, and unless someone rents or hires instruments out, it seems I need to go somewhere to try a range of instruments. I do not much fancy a trip all the way to N Ireland, so I guess that only leaves Barleycorn for a good selection?

 

I do like the sounds of the baritone and bass, but I am guessing with more metal that they would be slower to respond, so looking for a treble anglo.

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Martin Essery
added context

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Don't forget that Bach was probably one of the most prolific adaptor of his own work in his lifetime. Just think how many works were remade as keyboard, violin, oboe etc.. 

So in a way adapting existing work would be fine ( even in his eyes)!

[Martin Essery]

You are quite right of course, but each time I try, it seems that every note already is perfectly where it belongs 🙂
 

Here is the end of the Bach cello suite 2 prelude that I have spent much time pondering. For instance that final chord demands the F, the third of the chord, to be complete. Best I can manage is to arpeggio the chord and then hold the high note. It is a quiet, sensitive ending, and on my instrument, I cannot play low notes and high notes together, and be quiet, getting the top D to sound means the lower notes are way too loud, or if the lower notes are played softly, the top note does not sound at all. (is it like that on all instruments?) So I play it out as I have heard it done on a flute, one note at a time, which is a shame because the chords are so deliciously rich. Compromise compromise 😄

Yes, I know an English would solve my problem, but I have an irrational attachment to Anglos. I would like to think there are some that would understand that 🙂

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I cannot add much experience in other instrument makes; and use my one and only Anglo (bought near  24 years ago).. and with the deeper notes having long reeds compared to higher notes, with smaller reeds, they will be bigger sound in bass area compared to high notes. I am sure different instruments will suit each person, I found mine here, and stuck with it.. got to know it's personality, how each reed tends to sound, what pressure needed for loud and quiet, and it's probably different for each concertina.

My deepest bass note C can sound well with higher notes, within limitations, as it is a big deep note, and so will overpower very high notes if pressed together same time. It is again that word 'compromise' .. working in the limitations of instrument as much as it will allow.

 

[CrP]

Allow me to suggest possible compromise(s), nsmelt a 32-34-key anglo on which you can modify some 2 or 3 buttons to give you much greater flexibility in fingering (and bellows direction) choices.

For instance, I have had much pleasure and ease of arranging on my 34-button Jones in C/G. I asked Greg Jowaisas to modify several of the buttons in order to give me both a [left hand] squeeze B♭/draw E on one button (formerly a birdcall or some such noisemaker); a squeeze F# /draw C# on 'tother. Then I swapped the positions of the 2 Left-hand thumb-operated drone notes to give me the easily accessible low C on both squeeze and draw. This is just an example of the possibilities that attend customization to one's particular music-playing needs.

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by CrP
interruption

[CrP]

So, perhaps you might consider a used vintage anglo that already has 34+ buttons; is within you price range; has buttons that can be re-purposed; and (perhaps most important) analyze your note needs as you play to discover what and where there are fingering/bellows direction gaps that could be filled by a re-arrangment. Write to me -- I can send you a note diagram.

[Martin Essery]

18 hours ago, CrP said:

So, perhaps you might consider a used vintage anglo that already has 34+ buttons; is within you price range; has buttons that can be re-purposed; and (perhaps most important) analyze your note needs as you play to discover what and where there are fingering/bellows direction gaps that could be filled by a re-arrangment. Write to me -- I can send you a note diagram.

Thank you so much Adrian, it is going to take some time to think through how I might repurpose reeds on a smaller button count than 40, good thinking. I have played concert harp most of my life, and approach the concertina as a chamber instrument, so, melody in left hand, harmony in right does not matter much to me, just that the notes are somewhere, I consider both hands equally. The notes that come to mind immediately that would be useful are squeeze F, both hands, and bottom D (so miss that!) and top C in either direction would be most welcome, so even a repurposed 32 button would be useful.

[CrP]

Sounds good to me. If you haven't already made friends with a concertina repairperson, now might be the time to consider taking your button re-purposing idea(s) to such a person in search of advice. One thought comes to mind, namely, repurposing the buttons and associated reeds will have some physical limitations, such as the chamber size that is available vis-a-vis  the size od the replacement reed that will be fitted into it's new space. You probably already know that the lower the note, the larger the reed shoe and the longer the tongue . Hence, not ever reed will comfortably swap places with a significantly highr or lower note.

 

A squeeze F would be very useful, I think; ditto an extra C. So discuss it with a repairperson who won't balk at your untraditional request and might even be willing to re-purpose/swap around several notes to accommodate your much-sought alternatives.

[Martin Essery]

10 hours ago, CrP said:

Sounds good to me. If you haven't already made friends with a concertina repairperson, now might be the time to consider taking your button re-purposing idea(s) to such a person in search of advice. One thought comes to mind, namely, repurposing the buttons and associated reeds will have some physical limitations, such as the chamber size that is available vis-a-vis  the size od the replacement reed that will be fitted into it's new space. You probably already know that the lower the note, the larger the reed shoe and the longer the tongue . Hence, not ever reed will comfortably swap places with a significantly highr or lower note.

 

A squeeze F would be very useful, I think; ditto an extra C. So discuss it with a repairperson who won't balk at your untraditional request and might even be willing to re-purpose/swap around several notes to accommodate your much-sought alternatives.

Much food for thought, thank you so much.