Moving Reeds Into Different Slots

[richard]

Hello

 

Is it wrong or a bad idea to shift reeds in their shoes into a different slot other than the slot that it was meant for in the normal layout? For example on a Jeffries right side accidentals could one take the C# on the second button push and put it into the first button push, for a double C#?

 

I'm thinking these two reeds are probably close or identical in size and the shoes should fit into the slots.

 

If the reed shoe is one that is a bit to small a shim might do the job?

 

If the reed shoe is bigger than the slot by just a bit perhaps it could be done as well.?I imagine if the shoe was way too big one could damage or "expand" the slot and that wouldn't be good.

 

So, what is the extent to which this kind of reed shifting can be done? What are the no nos?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

Edited May 11, 2005 by richard

[Stephen Chambers]

Is it wrong or a bad idea to shift reeds  in their shoes into a different slot other than the slot that it was meant for in the normal layout?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Richard,

 

It is not uncommon for Anglo players to change certain notes, especially the draw D on the G row, a duplicate of the one on the C row, which is much more useful as a draw low A. But that change could be regarded as a "standard option" rather than an "altered fingering", and can be accomplished simply by weighting the existing D reed.

 

Alterations to what may be regarded as "standard fingering" need to be considered carefully, bearing in mind that they could require modifications to your Jeffries, and that once done other players might have difficulties playing your concertina, and you theirs. It could also be seen as detracting from the "originality" of the instrument, and affect the resale value.

 

 

For example on a Jeffries right side accidentals could one take the C# on the second button push and put it into the first button push, for a double C#?

 

I'm thinking these two reeds are probably close or identical in size and the shoes should fit into the slots.

That is a common modification in Irish circles. However, the Eb reed shoes are very slightly smaller than the C# ones, so the slot will need to be very carefully enlarged for the C#, and shimmed for the Eb. It is best done by a skilled repairer, especially as some fine-tuning will be required (always the case if you change the location of a reed).

 

 

I imagine if the shoe was way too big one could damage or "expand" the slot and that wouldn't be good.

If the shoe was that big, you would need to modify the chambering too.

 

 

So, what is the extent to which this kind of reed shifting can be done?

In theory, you could have any note in any position on your Anglo, as long as there is room for it and the chambering can be made adequate, but bearing in mind that the greater the difference between the press and draw reeds, the more problems you will have.

[JimLucas]

Is it wrong or a bad idea to shift reeds  in their shoes into a different slot other than the slot that it was meant for in the normal layout?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me repeat some things Stephen said, with pehaps different emphasis.

.. Any time a reed is moved to a new chamber, it will almost certainly need retuning, even if only a little. Even swapping two "identical" reeds tuned to identical notes will normally leave both out of tune. Tuning is a job for experts.

.. Even the thinnest shimming and shaving in reed slots can run into problems. E.g., the reed tongue will enter the hole through the reed pan when it vibrates, and sometimes the clearance is close enough that a paper-thin shift in the wrong direction can cause the tongue to contact the wall of the hole, resulting in bad sound or no sound.

.. "Major surgery" is highly disrecommended. I have in my possession a lovely Lachenal New Model Crane duet on which someone tried to rearrange the reeds in the past. I hope eventually to have it restored, when I can afford to pay an expert to build new reed pans from scratch, something I expect to be less costly than "repairing" the damaged originals.

.. Chamber dimensions matter. And while it may seem easy to shift reeds around, it's essentially impossible to adjust the dimensions of existing chambers, since each wall affects two chambers.

 

The particular change you mentioned, exhanging a C# and a D# reed, is a common one. If you can manage the swap without any "modifications" beyond a paper shim (no trimming of the wood), I don't see why you shouldn't try it. You'll be able to judge the extent of changes in tuning, tone, and response, and then you can just as easily return it to the original state.

 

But if you decide to make permanent changes, and the reeds need some adjustment (almost certainly the case), then you shoud take it to a well-known, highly respectetd professional. As I said, it's a job for an expert -- one with a public reputation, not just self-described as such, -- and the fact that you're asking such questions tells me you're not one.

 

As a separate issue, if you want to become a repair expert, you should gain experience by practicing on less valuable instruments, and consider this saying: "An 'amateur' is someone who practices until he can get it right. A 'professional' is someone who practices until he can't get it wrong." A Jeffries is a rare treasure, and any damage done will affect its value... not just its resale value, but its value to you as a player.