Chords According To You

[bellowbelle]

I know that a sixth chord is 'always' one with a MAJOR sixth (they say). In other words, if you have a C6 chord, you have C-E-G-A; if you have a Cm6, you have C-Eb-G-A. Both have the same sixth.

 

(I have also seen CM6 indicated for CM7/sixth added, but that's another thing.)

 

So, what if you do play C-Eb-G-Ab? I have always called that a Cmm6.

 

I know, I know...it's probably supposed to be called a 'Cm add-5' (which seems odd to me).

 

So, am I the only one in the world who plays Cmm6?

 

I'll add that I've noticed that classical and vocal-oriented music/musicians seem to favor the use of the terminology of the '6th' over that of the '+5' (augmented fifth), unless, of course, the tonality being defined really IS an augmented fifth....more instrumental and jazz-oriented players seem to bother more with the +5. (Though, if you say 'C+5,' you don't have the 5th that is present in my Cmm6.)

 

I just am puzzled about why the mm6 got left out!!!

 

I did find an incredibly great website all about chords terminology and more, though it still doesn't answer my question: http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory17.htm

 

Of course, I'll look again...maybe I missed something at that site. It's so exhaustive, I find it hard to believe that there's no mm6 chord somewhere there!

 

 

Forever....I shall play minor-minor-sixth chords....

[JimLucas]

So, what if you do play C-Eb-G-Ab?  I have always called that a Cmm6.

This question seems a bit like "Is that a concertina?"

 

For the most common varieties -- of chords or squeezeboxes, -- everybody agrees on what they should be called. For the less common ones, different names may be used by different groups, and there may occasionally be disagreements over either what name should be used or what a particular name means. With regard to the very uncommon varieties some folks will ask questions or worry about "the right name", others will make declarations and take stands, while yet others will say, "I don't use it, so I don't care."

 

Wendy, for what do you intend to use the notation? If it's only for your own use, then you can use whatever you want. If it's to communicate to others that you mean that particular chord, then the question becomes one of how they will know what you mean. If you can't find any notation -- much less a standard one -- for that chord, then probably they won't, either, so whatever notation you use, either it will have to be "intuitively obvious" or you'll have to explain it.

 

In my opinion, your own choice of "Cmm6" seems as reasonable a notation as any, and it might even be understood by someone who had never seen it before. For what it's worth, that particular sequence of notes could be interpreted as an inversion of AbM7; it's the same notes of the scale, but with the 3rd (of the Ab scale) in the bass. But if you want to emphasize that it's based on C, and not on Ab, then you probably don't want to use that notation. Unless you can find somewhere that there's already a widely accepted notation -- not to be confused with somebody else's personal notation that they've invented because they didn't know of an accepted standard, either, -- I think yours is fine.

 

On the other hand, if someone with formal musical training can tell us that there already is a standard notation, you -- and we -- should use that.

[Guest]

Hi Bellowbelle,

 

From what I can workout from the accelerated music theory course I did in early January, it is a C Minor 6th Diminished Chord (Cm6dim)

 

Cheers

Morgana

[David Barnert]

So, what if you do play C-Eb-G-Ab?

One thing you could call it is the first inversion of an Ab Major 7th chord (AbM7/C).

From what I can workout from the accelerated music theory course I did in early January, it is a C Minor 6th Diminished Chord (Cm6dim)

I would be hesitant to use the word "diminished" to describe a chord that has no diminished intervals in it. Diminished chords generally have a diminished 5th (ie., if the chord Wendy spelled had a Gb in place of the G)

[bellowbelle]

This question seems a bit like "Is that a concertina?"

-- A very good analogy, Jim! Thank you. That's a clear and concise explanation, I'd say.

 

 

Wendy, for what do you intend to use the notation? If it's only for your own use, then you can use whatever you want. If it's to communicate to others that you mean that particular chord, then the question becomes one of how they will know what you mean.

 

'Both.' I intend to use the notation for my own 'chord diary' or whatever (which is in progress), but I'll post it in my online photo album as usual, so that if it happens to be of interest to any other EC player, there it shall be.

 

On the other hand, if someone with formal musical training can tell us that there already is a standard notation, you -- and we -- should use that.

Hmm. I agree, but, if the 'formal' guys have kept this a secret for this long, then....well, maybe we're (or, I'm) not allowed to play it!

 

None of my own investigation into books (i.e., the textbook Tonal Harmony and various popular music dictionaries) or dredged-up memories from my two best music theory classes at a community college years ago...Eartraining & Sight-Singing, and Music Theory I -- both taught by great (and 'formal,' I guess) teachers -- gives me a sure answer. Though, I think that the Music Theory teacher (a classical piano player) may have called the mystery chord a 'mm6' chord.

 

From what I can workout from the accelerated music theory course I did in early January, it is a C Minor 6th Diminished Chord (Cm6dim)

Hey, now that would make sense to me, Morgana. I'd know what was meant, if I read that for notation, anyway! But, what Dave said...

 

I would be hesitant to use the word "diminished" to describe a chord that has no diminished intervals in it. Diminished chords generally have a diminished 5th (ie., if the chord Wendy spelled had a Gb in place of the G)

 

Hmm, yes, that might cause a question. (Now, of course, I have to look up some more info about diminished chords.)

 

One thing you could call it is the first inversion of an Ab Major 7th chord (AbM7/C).

(...as Jim and Dave both pointed out.) Yes, and in my chord dictionary I'll probably give a cross-reference of 'all' (at least significant) enharmonic chords, too.

 

It gets interesting! Tonality and all its shifting forms, that is.

 

And, before I leave the computer and trudge back to the house through our in-progress blizzard, here's a pic I took at about 11:05 pm (almost an hour ago). It shows the porch railing, car, bird feeder and waterer, etc.:

[JimLucas]

...if the 'formal' guys have kept this a secret for this long, then....well, maybe we're (or, I'm) not allowed to play it! 

You could always offer money back on the admission price to anyone who wants to walk out because of your playing those chords/"chords".

[Mark Evans]

Oh Wendy, I'm "snowed in here too! The wind is just howling around this old house and I hope my big maple keeps all her limbs and does not desposit a diminished cord of wood on my roof .

 

Back to coffee, 'cause baby it cold outside!

Edited January 23, 2005 by Mark Evans

[bellowbelle]

Oh Wendy, I'm "snowed in here too!  The wind is just howling around this old house and I hope my big maple keeps all her limbs and does not desposit a diminished cord of wood on my roof .

 

Well, rather a diminished 'cord' than an augmented one, in that case!

 

Back to coffee, 'cause baby it cold outside!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

...Yes, and more coffee.

 

We're still digging out but are fairly okay. I had to get my daughter back to college and we had to delay the trip, but, we still got there in good time, yesterday, which was a surprise. The roads weren't as bad as I expected they'd be.

[Mark Evans]

Safe and digging out here too. No 'cords' diminished or otherwise. Did however loose our phone and cable due to an overy zealous backhoe opperator . Serious CNet. withdrawal.