cryptastix Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Hey I finally decided what direction I want to take my learning.... and thats to learn how to accompany songs. which type of concertina is best for faking by yourself? english anglo duet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) That's a "how long is a piece of String" type question. You'll get three different opinions. If you wish to do it easily buy a Hayden Duet with a good sized keyboard... easy to transpose and play in a good range of keys. Many singers have used the English as all keys are available. If you are content to sing in a more limited range of keys the Anglo is good too...and you can aquire several in different keys. The other duets are great for the job as well... That's my two yards of string! Edited August 9, 2016 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryptastix Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 Yes I have an anglo rochelle. I was just wondering if i should get a duet or english as well. The way I understand it is that the duet has more room for improvement but the anglo does it more/less naturally. Being the case that ill never be some world class musician, im leaning to anglo for supposed ease. plus all the videos on youtube, the anglos seem to sound better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) Yes I have an anglo rochelle. I was just wondering if i should get a duet or english as well. Ah Ha ! These starter models from Concertina Connection are very well priced... why not have one of each ? When I started playing it was more a case of "how can I manage to afford a concertina ?"..... my first 'good' concertina cost me two months wages !.... ( ja, and we walked to work in bare feet through snow and ice in those days !)... well, it felt like that sometimes. Edited August 9, 2016 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Hey I finally decided what direction I want to take my learning.... and thats to learn how to accompany songs. which type of concertina is best for faking by yourself? english anglo duet? The simple yet true answer is, I believe, "the one you're most comfortable with". They're all good for song accompaniment, though the "simplest" or "easiest" types of accompaniment will likely differ from one to another. I myself have used both anglos and duets for song accompaniment (among other things), but far more I use the English, because that's the system that I've always found most comfortable. There are others who also find the English to be most comfortable, but still others who find it terribly uncomfortable. Likewise for the anglo and the various duets, some folks find each of them very comfortable, while others feel the opposite. And there are yet others who seem to find them all reasonably comfortable. There's not much point in trying to make good music if it's a pain to do so. On the other hand, if the playing itself is enjoyable, the music probably will be, too. Yes I have an anglo rochelle. I was just wondering if i should get a duet or english as well. The way I understand it is that the duet has more room for improvement but the anglo does it more/less naturally. Being the case that ill never be some world class musician, im leaning to anglo for supposed ease. plus all the videos on youtube, the anglos seem to sound better... I think it would be counterproductive for you to dilute your learning efforts at this stage by trying to work with more than one system before you've reached reasonable proficiency with even one. It sounds like you're already comfortable with the anglo, both physically and musically, so I suggest you continue with it unless and until you find yourself frustrated in trying to do something with it that you just can't seem to get. And even then, with a bit of help from your friends here, you might find yourself able to do that something, too. There will always be the option to experiment with other systems in the future, though if you're comfortable with the anglo, you're not likely to give it up, but rather to add another system. Regarding "room for improvement", there are many factors involved, including relative sizes. E.g., a 30-button anglo can do more than a 20-button, and a 38- or 40-button can do even more, but each step up gets heavier to hold. In this post in another thread, Geoff Wooff notes some factors with regard to the Hayden layout. So how much "improvement" can be made on any of the keyboards and how much work will be required to make it, will depend both on what you want to do and subtle details of how the keyboard sits under your fingers. A few encouraging examples in favor of sticking with the anglo even if you want to get "fancy", as long as it feels "natural" to you: Harry Scurfield played 40-button anglo with the band Bayou Gumbo (1987-2012), doing "cajun, zydeco, reggae, blues and high life amongst others." And I remember one session where Harry started playing Frankie and Johnny in the key of C# on his C/G anglo, but then modulated into D when a couple of us gave him pained looks. Zak van der Vyver, who grew up in the Boer tradition, does rich jazz-flavored stuff, also on 40-button anglo. John Kirkpatrick is well known for playing all sorts of stuff on various anglos as well as on the melodeon. But 40 buttons isn't a requirement. I once heard Scott Joplin's Maple Leaf Rag played on a 30-button anglo, and it sounded as if it had been composed for that instrument. There are other great examples (as well as many not so great) of players and playing on YouTube. I'm sorry that I haven't kept a proper list, but I'm sure others here can point you to their favorites, and you should easily find more worth hearing than you have time for listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryptastix Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 Hey I finally decided what direction I want to take my learning.... and thats to learn how to accompany songs. which type of concertina is best for faking by yourself? english anglo duet? The simple yet true answer is, I believe, "the one you're most comfortable with". They're all good for song accompaniment, though the "simplest" or "easiest" types of accompaniment will likely differ from one to another. I myself have used both anglos and duets for song accompaniment (among other things), but far more I use the English, because that's the system that I've always found most comfortable. There are others who also find the English to be most comfortable, but still others who find it terribly uncomfortable. Likewise for the anglo and the various duets, some folks find each of them very comfortable, while others feel the opposite. And there are yet others who seem to find them all reasonably comfortable. There's not much point in trying to make good music if it's a pain to do so. On the other hand, if the playing itself is enjoyable, the music probably will be, too. Yes I have an anglo rochelle. I was just wondering if i should get a duet or english as well. The way I understand it is that the duet has more room for improvement but the anglo does it more/less naturally. Being the case that ill never be some world class musician, im leaning to anglo for supposed ease. plus all the videos on youtube, the anglos seem to sound better... I think it would be counterproductive for you to dilute your learning efforts at this stage by trying to work with more than one system before you've reached reasonable proficiency with even one. It sounds like you're already comfortable with the anglo, both physically and musically, so I suggest you continue with it unless and until you find yourself frustrated in trying to do something with it that you just can't seem to get. And even then, with a bit of help from your friends here, you might find yourself able to do that something, too. There will always be the option to experiment with other systems in the future, though if you're comfortable with the anglo, you're not likely to give it up, but rather to add another system. Regarding "room for improvement", there are many factors involved, including relative sizes. E.g., a 30-button anglo can do more than a 20-button, and a 38- or 40-button can do even more, but each step up gets heavier to hold. In this post in another thread, Geoff Wooff notes some factors with regard to the Hayden layout. So how much "improvement" can be made on any of the keyboards and how much work will be required to make it, will depend both on what you want to do and subtle details of how the keyboard sits under your fingers. A few encouraging examples in favor of sticking with the anglo even if you want to get "fancy", as long as it feels "natural" to you: Harry Scurfield played 40-button anglo with the band Bayou Gumbo (1987-2012), doing "cajun, zydeco, reggae, blues and high life amongst others." And I remember one session where Harry started playing Frankie and Johnny in the key of C# on his C/G anglo, but then modulated into D when a couple of us gave him pained looks. Zak van der Vyver, who grew up in the Boer tradition, does rich jazz-flavored stuff, also on 40-button anglo. John Kirkpatrick is well known for playing all sorts of stuff on various anglos as well as on the melodeon. But 40 buttons isn't a requirement. I once heard Scott Joplin's Maple Leaf Rag played on a 30-button anglo, and it sounded as if it had been composed for that instrument. There are other great examples (as well as many not so great) of players and playing on YouTube. I'm sorry that I haven't kept a proper list, but I'm sure others here can point you to their favorites, and you should easily find more worth hearing than you have time for listening. very helpful post so whats the advantage of an anglo over a duet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Irishman Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 The advantage of an anglo over a duet? In your case, that's an easy one: you already have an Anglo, and we assume you can already play it a bit! More than any other system, the Anglo is a "good news / bad news" thing. The good news: the two home keys are really easy to play in. The bad news: the farther you stray from the home keys, the more difficult it gets to play - particularly if you're trying to harmonise your music. For me, this is of purely academic interest. Why? Because I can sing most songs in C major, and most of those I can't, I can sing in G major! So a standard C/G Anglo does me fine! Some years ago, I did buy a Crane duet, with the intent to free myself of this C/G "restriction." I now sing to the Crane duet as well as the Anglo - but still most of my songs are in C or G. Those that I can manage better in F, I accompany with the Crane, or transpose up a tone to G and use the Anglo. The reason why I play Anglo in the first place is because all that was available in the shops when I was a lad were the cheap, 20-button East German concertinas. If an Uncle in the Salvation Army had bequeathed me his Crane/Triumph, I'd have played that just as well and willingly, or if I had stumbled over an English in the attic, I reckon that would be my main squeeze now. I think you only start to find restrictions in your "native" concertina system when you've really sounded out all its capabilities - and that takes most of us a lo-o-ong time! Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryptastix Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 wow you guys are a wealth of knowledge. i really preciate all the input, its helping me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryptastix Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 The advantage of an anglo over a duet? In your case, that's an easy one: you already have an Anglo, and we assume you can already play it a bit! More than any other system, the Anglo is a "good news / bad news" thing. The good news: the two home keys are really easy to play in. The bad news: the farther you stray from the home keys, the more difficult it gets to play - particularly if you're trying to harmonise your music. For me, this is of purely academic interest. Why? Because I can sing most songs in C major, and most of those I can't, I can sing in G major! So a standard C/G Anglo does me fine! Some years ago, I did buy a Crane duet, with the intent to free myself of this C/G "restriction." I now sing to the Crane duet as well as the Anglo - but still most of my songs are in C or G. Those that I can manage better in F, I accompany with the Crane, or transpose up a tone to G and use the Anglo. The reason why I play Anglo in the first place is because all that was available in the shops when I was a lad were the cheap, 20-button East German concertinas. If an Uncle in the Salvation Army had bequeathed me his Crane/Triumph, I'd have played that just as well and willingly, or if I had stumbled over an English in the attic, I reckon that would be my main squeeze now. I think you only start to find restrictions in your "native" concertina system when you've really sounded out all its capabilities - and that takes most of us a lo-o-ong time! Cheers, John btw this was a great answer that helped me understand this instrument. thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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