Nice Box, Shame About The Action

[malcolmbebb]

A couple of nearby Stagi/Gremlin G/Ds have clapped out actions. These are not the rubber tube variety, they are a lightweight metal in which the button clips into the arm.

But the holes have worn out, so the buttons become loose and fall out.

 

The rest of the box is quite sound. bellows in good shape etc. So I'm wondering - anyone recently come across a way getting a working action in these beasties?

 

 

[Don Taylor]

I think that I have one of these Stagi only it is not worn out - yet!

 

Does the action look like this:

 

 

Mine has some wear on the aluminium arms and I guess also on the inside of the 'leg' holes.

 

It does not have the rubber tubing found on other Stagis, but I am wondering if it might be worth trying to fit some tubing anyway. Just enough to clear the inside of the face and long enough to rest on the aluminium arm instead of having a bearing surface between the leg hole and arm. This would hold the buttons up higher and might solve your problem. Maybe it will quiet the action too. Maybe it will stick. When I get around to trying it then I will report back.

 

Another feature of this action mechanism compared to other Stagis is that it is easy to get the buttons back through the face plates when reassembling it. The reeds are screwed in rather than waxed in so it is quite easy to work on.

 

FWIW. I bought this used recently, it is the model W-15LN model with the "new, improved action". Since it is about 15 years old I guess the term 'new' is a bit of old marketing speak. Button Box wants $900 for a new one!

 

I like the tone, it is a bit stiff and runs low on air fairly quickly but overall I like it. I have made a new hand rest for the right hand side as I found that I had to lever my thumb over the upper, notched-down edge of the rest to reach the air button which was awkward and uncomfortable.

 

Don.

[malcolmbebb]

It's not dissimilar. The buttons have two pegs that locate in the arms. I think the Stagi has conventional waxed accordion reeds, not got that far into the Gremlin yet. But it appears to have a similar action.

These boxes aren't too bad for a low cost concertina, but these actions let them down badly once worn. The Stagi is still used as a Morris box, but getting past it, and the Gremlin has buttons falling out now.

 

Interesting that a previous owner of the Gremlin (=rebadged Stagi) has fitted modified hand rests.

[Mike Jones]

I made and fitted the modified hand rests because I could not "curl "my fingers sufficiently to use the inner row of buttons, which gave me cramp and the longer extension with the modified hand rest worked well and I could more easliy touch the inner row and still reach the accidentals. I have no trouble with other makes of Anglo such as my Lachenal, a Wheatstone I borrowed or the Marcus G/D (lovely instrument I think) that replaced the Gremlin. Marcus made the action lower and lighter for me on request when I went down to try and subsequently order the instrument. From a previous/different strand, I trained as an ergonomist in later life as part of my health and safety professional training and one of the causes of so called repetative strain injuries leading to all sorts of musculoskeletal conditions was 1. hitting keyboards too hard and 2. not having the correct design for the person rather than making the person conform to the design. I used to reassemble the Gremlin upside down, so the buttons hung downwards and slotted into the ends/holes more easily, when I effected repairs or modifications. Best of luck with it. I really disliked playing it, both the tone and the action. It was worst than the Hohner C/G (another Stagi clone?) I had and I got rid of that as well.

 

I am now having similar problems learning the Wheatstone English Model 21 when reaching the lowest notes on each side and have had to modify the thumb strap slightly as a result. I have quite long fingers. and used to find that I was always putting my fingers through the ends of surgical gloves when I worked in the NHS, which was a slight problem when working in asceptic conditions (as a blood transfusion immunologist).

[malcolmbebb]

Hi Mike,

 

Couldn't find the original correspondence before - just found your earlier posts.

 

I thought the lady owner of the Stagi had got herself a "new" box, but it seems she's been soldiering on with it and has just again raised the subject of repairs with a local musician - who refused even to take a look! His comments echo yours, I think he's seen it before.

 

The morris side have other musicians now, so she's not the sole player and I guess the pressure is off

 

So it's been very much on the back burner for a while, until my son mentioned the subject and we dug it out your old one. . But I thought it worth a punt here, you never know.

 

I am sans workshop facilities for a while, but I might have another go at it when I'm running again. Just for the challenge - can't see it replacing my Marcus, somehow.

[Don Taylor]

Couldn't find the original correspondence before - just found your earlier posts.

I can't find it, could you post a link or a search expression that will take me there?

 

Thx.

 

Don.

[malcolmbebb]

Yer tiz:

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=14399&do=findComment&comment=137722

 

Bastari, I see, not Stagi - but whether that makes any difference?

[Don Taylor]

Malcolm:

Thanks for the link.

Take a look at the image in this post:
http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13950&p=134275

I wonder if you added some tubing as shown, even though it apparently never had the tubing bushings in the first place, would it solve the problem? It would raise the buttons up and would also stop the the notch in the base of the button legs wearing on the lever arm.

The Aerotrend tubing recommended by George Salley is no longer available - see http://www.concertina.net/gs_stagirepair.html. I plan on going to a hobby shop next week to see if I can find a substitute. DU-BRO silicone tubing in medium or large looks like a good substitute.

Don.

[malcolmbebb]

It looks a good idea - might have been better before the buttons became as knackered as they are.

 

I guess the tubing pushes the arm down, needs some rigidity but a little flexibility won't hurt, then the arm and spring push the button up.

 

Malcolm

Edited November 10, 2013 by malcolmbebb

[malcolmbebb]

I have spent much of the evening dismantling and assembling low value concertinas, and studying the stagi/Bastari/Gremlin action without acquiring any more love for it.

However, I have decided that I will give the rubber tubing a try. I did have a short length, but have recently had a big tidy-up and have no idea where it is... But surgical (latex) tubing seems worth a try, from the other thread. Just got to find a suitable size, and a source for it.

 

I remain impressed by the build quality of the bellows. They look as good on the inside as they do on the outside. Having a couple of boxes with duff bellows, I discovered that they are slightly bigger than 20b Lachenal bellows.

But I do have an early 20th c (or late 19th) German box, clearly aimed at Lachenal and much better quality than many that you see. It's still not as good as the English boxes of the time, but it has steel reeds on zinc plates, six fixing screws, doesn't look bad and the Gremlin bellows would fit it without a great deal of work, frame and all.

In fact, by cobbling them together, I was able to get enough notes to identify the German box as C/F - previously unknown.

So now there is Plan B.

 

Unless someone else has a knackered box of this type with sound bellows

Edited November 16, 2013 by malcolmbebb

[Don Taylor]

Malcolm:

 

I did buy some DU-BRO blue silicone model air plane fuel tubing, medium (3/32" id.) and large (1/8" id.) from a hobby shop.

 

Both sizes seem to work OK, but the 3/23" is a tighter fit which I think is better.

 

Don.

[malcolmbebb]

OK, don't do DU-BRO here but I have some on order. 1/8 and 3/32. Within milliseconds of hitting the Order button I remembered where the 1/8 stuff was that I had bought previously, for this job, and not used. Oh well. It's not expensive.