Posting photos, sound files and videos .Etiquette

[hjcjones]

Azalin, the term "session" can actually cover a wide range of activities. To my mind, anything publicised as a "session" (whether advertised or by word of mouth) implies that it is open to anyone. The downside, as you have pointed out, is that one or two poor or insensitive musicians can have a disproportionate effect on the quality of the music.

 

Sometimes a musician will arrange with a pub or restaurant owner to provide some music and will invite some other musicians along. I wouldn't regard that as a "session" and it wouldn't normally be publicised as such, since this would give the wrong impression. In most respects, however, the dynamics would be the same as an open session.

 

A whole range of performances similar to what you describe can be seen along the seafront at Sidmouth Festival. There are musicians every few yards - some are clearly impromptu open sessions, while others are performances by individuals or small groups. Some are openly busking. In most cases it is immediately clear what style of performance it is and whether it is appropriate to join in. In particular, where a few well-known artists are playing together this would clearly be seen as an informal performance and it would be inappropriate to join them without being invited.

 

On the question of being recorded, I don't understand why anyone who is prepared to play their music in public should object to that being recorded - although it is not unreasonable to ask that it's not then posted on Facebook or YouTube. That includes professionals, who in my experience are usually very generous - whenever I have asked permission to record a formal performance in a folk club it has invariably been given. Nevertheless, I could understand it if a professional musician didn't want to be recorded, but for anyone else it would leave me with the impression that they have too high an opinion of themselves. Of course, I would respect their wishes.

[michael sam wild]

I suppose it can stray into 'bootlegging' but it often gives emerging artists a bootleg up the ladder to paid work.

[Azalin]

Azalin, the term "session" can actually cover a wide range of activities. To my mind, anything publicised as a "session" (whether advertised or by word of mouth) implies that it is open to anyone. The downside, as you have pointed out, is that one or two poor or insensitive musicians can have a disproportionate effect on the quality of the music.

 

Yes, this is where the line can be different from people to people. Those sessions I told you about are "open" on paper, because they are in a public environment but many musicians wouldn't want people *not* playing at their level to be there. Is it snobbery? Depends on which side of the fence you are :-) But maybe this type of 'hierarchy' and level is more in irish music than other genres, I couldn't say. It also depends a lot on the people who started the session. Some awesome musicians are very welcoming and are there just for the 'craic', some other awesome musicians are mostly there for the quality music and their ego is about to burst and they'll give you an angry look if you try top join their 'open' session.

 

On the question of being recorded, I don't understand why anyone who is prepared to play their music in public should object to that being recorded

 

Well, I'll tell you exactly why some musicians would oppose it in irish music scene. I heard it from different people. When you sit down with friends, you feel like you can have a few pints, play some tunes, and then have some 'craic' between the tunes, talk about silly stuff etc. If someone were to drop a recorder on the table, or anyhow record the whole thing, then the musicians would have to mind what they say. It kills their fun. Of course, when I record tunes I *only* record the tunes anyway, as I don't want to have to edit later. But the musicians don't know that. If you were to say "I will only be recording the tunes, not the talk in between" I think they would be more open to it. Many people record the whole thing because they are too lazy to press stop/record all the time. I think 99.99% of musicians who oppose being recorded, or find it rude if you don't ask, wouln't mind if you were only recording the tunes, but recording them talking in between is like an invasion of their privacy.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Azalin

[Dana Johnson]

If someone doesn't want their performance on the internet then of course that should be respected. But we live in a world where everyone has the means to disseminate information, including recordings and photos, and where a great many people wish to do so. We have to just live with that.

We may have to live with it, but those that don't have the courtesy to ask first, shouldn't be surprised if they don't get a friendly response. As noted in a different post. What has happened to a large degree is that previously "public" sessions are now quite private Kitchen sessions. where the good stuff is no longer accessible. Oh Well, there is still Budweiser and Country Western Music in abundance. ( probably sells more beer anyway )

Music is a funny thing. Some people don't think it is worth anything if it isn't shared, for others it is a meditation between them and their God. In this "modern" age, music has become just another commodity that many who don't bother learning to make their own, think should be free. Taking someone else's efforts without asking and thinking you somehow have a right to it, isn't that far removed from a musical mugging.

Dana

[hjcjones]

maybe this type of 'hierarchy' and level is more in irish music than other genres, I couldn't say.

I do notice it sometimes in Irish sessions here too.

 

Perhaps they have different expectations from sessions. At most of the English music sessions I go to people are really there for the crack (it's an English word, by the way ) and hope that good music will emerge. English sessions are also much more improvisatory and much of the fun is in seeing just where that particular group of musicians can take a tune. Irish sessions (some at least) seem to be much stricter - I debated on here at cross purposes for some time before I realised that at the other person's session you were expected to go away and learn a tune "properly" before joining in.

 

 

Well, I'll tell you exactly why some musicians would oppose it in irish music scene. I heard it from different people. When you sit down with friends, you feel like you can have a few pints, play some tunes, and then have some 'craic' between the tunes, talk about silly stuff etc. If someone were to drop a recorder on the table, or anyhow record the whole thing, then the musicians would have to mind what they say.

 

OK, that's understandable, but in my experience I don't find it inhibits anyone's conversations at the sessions I go to. Perhaps it depends on the situation - if there are just 3 or 4 musicians and someone sticks a mic or recorder under their noses it could be inhibiting, but if there's a dozen or more with the recorder just running somewhere in the corner then most people seem to forget its there. Certainly no one seems to be minding what they say! However, as I said earlier, in most cases, even at festival sessions, a substantial number of the musicians will be known to me, so perhaps that makes a difference.

 

The simple fact is that someone could be standing at the bar with a mobile phone in their hand and you'd have no idea whether they were reading a text message, watching a film, or recording the session. I think you just have to be relaxed about it. The real issue, as Mike suggested in the OP, is what they then do with it, but since it's almost impossible to prevent someone from posting online, then I think you just have to be relaxed about that as well.

[Kautilya]

V interesting. Important element, if you do post something is to make sure it is labelled so it cannot be hijacked for commercial purposes by some music integrator/compiler company. Warn them off with a copyright sign and no commercial reproduction.

 

Cnet could make a few bob by reigistering a sticky label sign for sale (even a gold pin badge for Edeophone and high-end box owners ) which says "I am not up for recording thank you!"

 

More useful: does anyone know of a software which allows you to "blur out" -- not the faces but the keyboard fingering in a youtube clip -- to avoid player embarrassment !

 

Randy's point on publicity for the professionals and upandcoming is true. Most are happy if extracts from get togethers appear (not the full contents of a developing album) to whet punters' appetites. Ask of course when very specific and also put "the not for commercial repro on it".

 

This is somewhat similar to position with thumbnail photos on photo agency sites -

[hjcjones]

In this "modern" age, music has become just another commodity that many who don't bother learning to make their own, think should be free. Taking someone else's efforts without asking and thinking you somehow have a right to it, isn't that far removed from a musical mugging.

Dana

I entirely agree when it comes to ripping off commercial recordings or bootlegging recordings of live concert performances. I think it's a bit different when you're doing something in a public place - it doesn't make a difference whether that's playing music or any other activity. The chances are you're going to attract someone's interest, who may then choose to film or record it (as everyone now carries around the technology to do so). It's equally natural for them to want to share it - once they might have shown photos to a few friends, now they'll show the world on Facebook. I'm not entirely sure it's a step forward for the human race, but it's the world we now live in.

 

In the UK at least, there is no law of privacy (although there are attempts to change that). If I am walking down the street and someone takes a photo of me, I can't stop them. As an occasional photographer, I support that - imagine having to get a model release signed by anyone who walked into your holiday snaps. I don't see why recording, with or without pictures, should be any different.

 

If you play music in a public place then you are giving it away free. You still own copyright in the performance to prevent commercial exploitation, but other than that you have little control over what people do with it. If they ask your permission to record or photograph, that's a courtesy rather than a necessity.