chiton1

That's great music, and very mature for a boy of his age!

So Catty do you think you should be on the list? The number of instruments you play is of no importance (I play whistle, wooden flute, bombard, biniou and concertina). I do play other music on concertina too (Breton music and like to improvise). But if you play mostly jigs and reels than you should be listed! To do so we need your real name, if you do not mind (I remember a thread long ago about people being afraid mentioning their real names...).

The few short pieces of music by ''Dow'' on youtube were great but indeed I can not find them anymore.... pity. I mailed him a few times, perhaps two years ago; he said that he was in Australia and he called himself Marc if I remember well. If you do play with him could you give his full name? And by the way ask him to put some new material on youtube

Well David I agree with you, this should be a topic for listing those who are playing Irish music on EC. But probably I am to blame for it as well as I added this: And discussions regarding if EC can produce some convincing Irish music etc. should better be addressed in another topic. Now I will put three new videos on youtube tonight and would very much like comments on those (especially by Anglo players) and perhaps start a discussion from there. I didn't include Mick & Rick (doesn't that sound lovely?) as I only heard them playing harmonica and song accompaniment, but perhaps they do play Irish dance music and airs on EC?.... I do not know if it is statistically significant but most European EC players seem to be dislocated from their land of origin! That is why I have put their origin/descent between square brackets. Of course Americans and Australians are already dislocated (unless they are from true native origin ). To the list I have added a few myself and will add more (there at least two others in France). English System Concertina Players Who Play Irish Music Marc (Australia) Dirk de Bleser (Belgium) Hermann Strack (France) - [German/French/Uruguayan] Geoff Wooff (France) - [English] Fernando Durbán Galnares (Ireland) - [spanish] Dick Miles (Ireland) - [English] Henrik Müller (Sweden) - [Danish] Dick Abrams (USA) Matt Heumann (USA) Larry Stout (USA)

After so many discussions if Irish music CAN be played on English Concertina, I would be interested to know who are predomintly playing Irish music (ITM or however you call it) on their EC? And I think it would also be interesting to know how many people use their EC to play Irish music. Sometimes I have the impression that Anglo players regard us a rare breed of queer people on a useless and futile quest (why not play Anglo is a question I have often been asked by Anglo players). Of course I came across a few Irish playing ECs in Concertina.net, but there are probably more I do not know of. I would also be curious to know were these people are based, as probably most of them live outside Ireland. So I have three easy questions: 1) do you play predominantly (lets say at least half of your repertoire) Irish Music on your EC? (if so, please give your name) 2) in which country do you live? 3) do you know of others who would fit this category? This will result in a list like the one Dick made for Scottish EC players. I will sign in first - hope others will follow. I have edited this first post so that all further updates can be seen here: English System Concertina Players Who Play Irish Music Marc Anderson or Markus Dow (Australia) Dirk De Bleser (Belgium) Robin Beech (Canada) Tom Ryan (Canada) Jim Lucas (Denmark) [American] Val ''Flying Toads'' (England) Christine Jordan (England) John Leavey (England) Simon Skelton (England) Jean Louis Auneaud (France) Eric Hardy (France) Hermann Strack (France) - [German/French/Uruguayan] Geoff Wooff (France) - [English] Fernando Durbán Galnares (Ireland) - [spanish] Dick Miles (Ireland) - [English] Henrik Müller (Sweden) - [Danish] Dick Abrams (USA) Eric Barker (USA) Joel Bernstein (USA) Ed Delaney (USA) Rick Epping (USA?) Mike ''Fidlersgreen'' (USA) Matt Heumann (USA) Tim Jennings (USA) Denise Martin (USA) Jim Norman (USA) David Paton (USA) Larry Stout (USA) Ken Sweeney (USA) Sandy Winters (USA) Randal Wolfe (USA) Jonathan Taylor (Switzerland) [Anglo-Swiss]

I honestly do not have the faintest idea what you are talking about.... Perhaps you can explain? Concerning the use of the bellows, I find that fanning (I never use it) is restricting my use of the bellows and therefor the dynamics I want to achieve. Probably it works for some kind of music (or musicians) but certainly not mine (or me). That said I am not someone who thinks you have to stand up and sway your concertina around with some big gestures to get your concertina going. I saw some English EC players do that. I do it for fun sometimes (when no one's around). I turn around and sway/play my concertina until I get dizzy. But honestly I think I get the same effects sitting down and working my bellows ''normally'', except for the dizzyness of course.

Thanks, there will be more (I now know how to do it - youtube I mean )...

I know it from an old record of Mick Hanly called ''A Kiss in the Morning Early'', released 1976 (isn't internet a wonderful thing sometimes?!). The list of songs includes a ''Verdant Braes of Green'', so you may well be right here! I later heard somebody else sing it under the name: The Lass from the North Country'' (but I can be mistaken). Apart from being a wonderful melody it provided just the few bars of music I needed to do the tremolo demonstration.

On the video I overdid the tremolo a bit to show it as well as possible. But I agree with you, it's all about bellows control. For instance you push or pull a little harder (or softer) to create dynamics; a faint quiver or an occasional real tremolo will add to the music and will (as you aptly put it) make your concertina sing. The more tricks you have in your sleeve the better, but of course it is how, when and where you use these tricks (techniques) that will shape your music. And than we are on the slippery path of collective and personal taste.

I have put three pieces of my music on youtube: My concertina playing: (a jig called: Trip to Athlone)My flute plying: (a reel called: For the Sakes of Old Decency)Demonstration of how to play vibrato-like vibrato on concertina: (playing an air the name of which eludes me at the moment). I throw the flute in for fun (wrong forum I know!). There is more to come soon. Hermann

Three months ago I somewhat promised to show different ways of playing vibrato-like tremolo on concertina; well here it is. If people are using other methods please let us know. It took a little time to get the youtube films done. The first time I did the tremolo film I was wearing black and as the concertina is black there was not much to see. I had to do it again and change dress for contrast! Then my PC is not connected to ADSL (everything is slow up here in the Breton countryside) and the films would not charge, so I had to use someone else's PC. I also charged two other smaller pieces of my music for those interested: My concertina playing: (a jig called: Trip to Athlone)My flute plying: (a reel called: For the Sakes of Old Decency)I must say playing in front of a camera is getting me more nervous as I thought! Anyway there are three other pieces of music waiting to be put oon youtube soon (2 hornpipes, 2 jigs, 3 polkas). And I have some other things coming next. The Use of Tremolo on the Concertina As stated in a previous topic in Cnet (especially by ‘’Ratface’’ from whom I borrowed a few phrases) one can only use tremolo techniques on a concertina and not real vibrato. In vibrato you modulate the pitch of the note (mostly half a note or less below the note you are playing). In tremolo you modulate the volume (without significantly modulating the pitch). In concertina one should bear in mind that changing the pressure will cause a slight change in pitch as well (because reeds play flat when the pressure increases), the result however will still be more tremolo than vibrato. But played on the concertina the tremolo technique results in a ‘’vibrato effect’’, and most people think they hear vibrato when tremolo is played. Over the years I found out that there were more than one or two techniques to make tremolo effects with the concertina. In all I found seven. If somebody on Cnet is using a different way to make tremolo I would be very interested to know. Some of these seven techniques I have never seen (or heard) used before, but I certainly don’t think I am the only one using them (what is to be invented these days that hasn’t been done by someone else long before?!). In fact any technique that makes a series of short movements (trembling, shaking etc.) will result in tremolo. I just want to show fellow concertina players what can be done, and give some of my views about the techniques of tremolo and how to use them. Six out of seven techniques require manipulation of one end of the concertina at the time. I mostly use the right end (which in my case is resting on my right knee). When using both ends at the same time you lose control. I can achieve these techniques with my instrument resting on my knee, but sometimes (especially when shaking or wiggling) I prefer to lift it free to get some more effect. The techniques below were all done on English concertina, but I am sure that, except the last one, all of them can be done on Anglo concertina as well. I have made a Youtube clip: to show the seven different techniques described below. Shaking: I call this shaking because this is achieved by shaking one end of the concertina. Here the fore-arm moves gently (to firmly) up and down. I find this handy when you want to put a vibrato effect on a note while playing fast and loud. If you need some firm shaking lift your concertina and shake with both hands. Trembling: This technique is very subtle and can produce just a faint quiver if well executed. Here you use the whole arm. I strain my muscles to put pressure on my arm until it starts trembling. The right amount of strain is not easily produced and can give a rather unpleasant feeling to the arm. Wiggling: Here you also use only your fore-arm to wiggle the right end of your concertina by gently rotating your hand laterally (and fore-arm, otherwise it doesn’t work). Wiggling can also be produced by the pressure of the palm of your hand on the concertina. You then achieve a movement that is directed lengthwise (in line with the fore-arm). Waving: A technique that I haven’t yet seen in concertina playing, but I have seen it done once by a box player. It gives a wonderful ‘’vibrato effect’’, and can be very useful when playing longer notes at any ending. It consists of letting all fingers loose (except your thumb of course) and waving this free hand. You can wave with all fingers held together, but also by freely moving all fingers independently or, if a more subtle effect is desired, by moving only two or three fingers. Drumming: A light tapping with your free fingertips on the side of your concertina will do the trick. You can even add some rhythm if desired. I never use this when playing Irish music, but I sometimes do when improvising. Kneeing: The concertina must be resting on your knee (in my case right side of the concertina on my right knee). You lift the heel of your foot, and then make movements with your foot (which is resting on your toes only). The profit of this method is that your arms and hands are not involved. In-Out: Fast movement of the bellows in and out. This can only be done on the English and Duet. I never use it, but I presume this is the only technique that needs simultaneous work on both sides of the concertina. In a thread on Cnet Alan Day said that it is used a lot in miniature playing and that the master was Tommy Elliot. You can hear him use this technique on track 12 of disc 2 of English International. It certainly does not work well on the air I am playing to demonstrate! These seven methods can be used individually but sometimes also more or less simultaneously (for instance shake and wiggle at the same time). And one technique can be smoothly followed by another to create some variation (for instance start with trembling and end with waving). I personally do not like to use too much tremolo/vibrato effect, but opinions (and tastes) differ. It also depends on what you play. Of course when a tune is played slow it will contain longer notes, and these longer notes often call for some tremolo/vibrato effects. It can be very nice to start a note plain, put some tremolo halfway and let it die off, and finish plain again. You can also just add some tremolo at the end of a long note. Tremolo can add to the music in fast pieces too. I use it when there is a relatively longer note I want to accentuate (see youtube: ).

It has been 3 months now that I promised in this thread to show several ways (now increased to 7) to play vibrato-like tremolo. It took me some time to make a film and write the story. Now it is on youtube (including two tracks of me playing for real). If you want to know more about it see the ''Teach and Learn'' section. Hermann

Now if you want to hear chorded Irish music on concertina you should hear the vigorous playing of Colm Delaney. Young and talented, and uses lots of chords in his music. Although I think his use of chords differs from common practice in the UK. Instead of the recurring oempahpah thing, it is used to mark phrases, create dynamics etc. He recorded a CD together with a young fiddle player but somehow it was never released, which is a pity as he deserves to be known.

I know Wim Wakker has a Wheatstone Boyd and Dick Abrams (USA) as well. Mine is a metal ended extended (56 buttons) treble Boyd Lachenal new model. Series number 41487 (ca. 1905?). A few improvements were made on this concertina. It has now completely new riveted action, and a new 6 fold bellows (instead of the original somewhat rigid 5 fold bellows). There are two (one on either side) air ''buttons''. It has a very clear, crisp and strong sound, with very good dynamic range (from quite soft to as loud as an Wheatstone Aeola). A good response and action (riveted). The reeds are of great quality as they respond even better as the metal ended Aeola Wheatstone I have (contrary to the statement in the previous post also when played with little presure). But concertinas made for H. Boyd were always of the highest quality. Wim Wakker preferred this instrument over another Wheatstone Boyd he had in repair. I am disposing of this instrument because compared to other concertinas the buttons are not as high elevated and seem to be a fraction closer to each other, which should enable faster playing (new model layout), but not that well suited for my fingers who are too thick?. Also I find the higher notes somewhat too sharp/crisp for the music I make (ITM mostly). It will sell for euro 2200. I know this is not the place, but now we are at it. Probably I will put an add in the buy and sell section later (but I am not in a hurry - as I still play it from time to time).

I second that (especially as I try to play ITM on a EC....... ). This said I am not a AC player but find it somewhat strange that ''real'' ITM can only be played on a C/G instrument. At least that is the impression some of the posts here leave me. The essence of the music is in your head not in the instrument. So if you know ITM, and you have well mastered your instrument, and exploited its possibilities surely ITM can be played on it. But of course it is easier to follow the mainstream and play C/G (all these hundreds - thousands perhaps - concertina players can''t be wrong ).

I am resurrecting this topic because of an unexpected and thusfar unrecorded (I think) concertina appearence in a movie. We were watching a DVD of a film made in 1990 called ''Henry and June''. A mildly erotic film about the American writer Henry Miller and his romance with the French writer Anais Nin. Mildly erotic to us Europeans of course, but certainly way too erotic for the prudish eyes of Americans The film is quite bad anyway, and the only moment of surprise to me was the appearance of a miniature concertina that was actually played (no prop!). And that in Paris in the 1930s! Does someone know who plays the miniature concertina (could not see if it was AC or EC)?

I was referring to the composition only, not your playing. I know how difficult it is to play in front of a microphone or (even worse) camera. I recently made a few recordings to put on youtube , now I have to find out how to put these soundfiles in the right format to be acceptable for youtube

Interesting to heqr the Primrose Polka, although it is certainly not my kind of polka. To me it sounds like a 1930s soundclip for a cartoon. I prefer my polkas simple, fast and bouncy.

Yes David give us a rendition of how you play the Primrose Polka. I do not know it or perhaps I do know (but I am bad at remembering names), anyway I am curious now...

Shall we make a list of all instruments in the world, than compare their technical abilities, their subjective qualities as well, and see what instrument comes out best - perhaps the Marimba or the Mbira I love the specific sound of the concertina, otherwise I wouldn't play it. And spent all that money buying them - I could buy an enormous accordeon with 3400 bass buttons for the money I spent on my concertinas - but then I really dislike the sound of most accordeons so I stick to my concertinas (Bandoneon however I love, but you can't do everything in life, I already play the flute and the bombard). Yes it is a simple instrument (although not that simple to play it well!) and I play simple music on it (Irish). I do not have the time and the wish to play intricate classic repertoire (but I love to hear them). And playing the same melodic lines as a fiddle on a concertina (in Irish music) is certainly possible and not of lesser quality. Piano solo in Irish music? Sorry but I still have to hear the first one that will give me anything that looks like positive emotion. The pianist playing with Niall Vallely is not doing bad, but take out Niall's concertina and nothing remains.... Ah come on, lets play some concertina!

Hi Chiton1 Wellll, if it were in "C", there would be no reason to use the sharps and flats rows, so I guess you could count me in there too. But only part time. Thanks Leo Thanks Leo, that makes two and a half out of 37! I feel much better now

I only just had the opportunity to see and listen to your attached story. Apart from the fact that I am pleased that these museum instruments were played again, I found the music (Purcell) breathtakingly beautiful.

Who says that all restorations involve destroying ''valuable evidence''. Changing pads, repairing a few leaks in a bellow, or replacing some missing piece of veneer or whatever small restoring project will certainly not alter the possibilities to know how the instrument was made. Especially if you keep eventually replaced parts (so that the historical loose pad can be studied by half a dozen whitecoated scientists in a highly secure and dust free environment with electron microscopes to ascertain what kind of fibre was used at the time - sorry I am letting myself go now...), and to keep records of all restorations made to that object (common museum practice). So you just mark in your files attached to the object that a spring was changed (exactly specifying which one was changed of course), so that future scientists know which spring is a later substitute and look in the little plastic bag to find the replaced original! No, but we can argue what those features of interest may be! And if in fact if none of those features are being destroyed by restoring the instrument, please can I have some sound files? Especially those instruments that are on display (I am not talking about a total restoration of the whole collection...) We know in general terms how concertinas were made also. Sorry, I want to hear what is displayed, if possible of course. I think some of you have a very restricted view of what a museum should be. I now give up this thread. I am starting to repeat myself (and I am not the only one repeating himself).

Out of 27 EC players I (and probably someone else, unless he uses 5 fingers or only 1 ) play with two fingers only. That makes me feel somewhat lonely in the concertina community.. So I just ask again; is there somebody else playing with two fingers only?

Who says that a museum of music instruments should limit itself to preserve or show only one aspect (and not the most important) of musical instruments? Why restrict yourself? As I said before museums have more tasks than only preserving objects for eternity. They have a duty to display and instruct at its best and in my view preserving and showing only craftmenship is way too limited. And as I said before (again) other objects from different museum collections are being restored as well (paintings, tapestries, clocks you name it!). I really do not see why it would be too much asked to restore at least part of the collection and give sound files of those instruments being played while standing in front of a display case (just give everybody one of these machines with head phones).