PhilEdwards

A friend has just asked if I'd be interested in buying his Lachenal EC. It's someone I trust - personally and as a musician - so I think it'll be an OK box generally. (The discussion's still at a very early stage, I should add.) One thing gave me slight pause, though; apparently it's been modified somewhere down the line, removing the release button & replacing it with a small plate. I can't think why someone would do that - wouldn't it be rather inconvenient not to have a release button, not to say anti-social? Or is that a known modification, in the world of concertina-modding (if there is a world of concertina-modding)? What do people think?

That makes a lot of sense - thanks. Ruediger - sorry if it seemed like I was asking the same question again. There just seemed to be something 'obvious' in people's replies that wasn't obvious to me. (Thinks: "that's a tenth of what you'd pay for something with a similar name from a good restorer... and it's had some work done... how bad can it be?") Getting it now, I think.

More seriously... This is what puzzles me - looking at it as an absolute beginner - about these eBay listings. They've got the names, basically; some of them have even got serial numbers. They generally say they've been at least partially restored & come with lists of all the bits that have been replaced. And yet, I get the impression that people here generally wouldn't touch them with a bargepole, except possibly to take on as a restoration project. Is 'tutor' (and the black buttons) a red flag? Would you distrust the list of replaced bits - or would you work on the assumption that everything that hadn't been replaced was suspect? I'm also curious about that little 18-button thing - small, big bellows, weird (English-like?) layout, little finger straps...

Begging your pardon, guv, I had no idea I was aspiring to play such a rich gentleman's instrument. Pardon my pauperly presumption - it's back to the old comb and paper for me... Actually it's temperament as much as necessity - I could find £300 if I wanted to, but years of part-time & temporary employment have told me that there's always another rainy day round the corner. (A couple of years ago, when things were even tighter, I watched my bank balance for months before I spent £20 on a Tony Dixon whistle. (Well worth it.)) So I'm selling off bits of my record collection and earmarking the proceeds as the Concertina Fund. If, in a year or so's time, you see a hard case with an Aphex Twin sticker on it, that'll be why.

I'm currently saving up for my first concertina, mainly by selling stuff on eBay; I know exactly what I'm going to buy (a Jackie), who I'm going to buy it from (Celtic Chords) and what it's going to cost. But where's the fun in that? While I'm on eBay I sometimes have a look at the concertinas people are selling, and some of them are seriously intriguing - particularly the prices. Here's a 48-key Lachenal treble - a 'tutor' by the look of the buttons - described thus: Here's a Wheatstone tutor ("This box has had a lot of restoration work on it as all pads have been professionally replaced as well as valves etc") And another Lachenal (with an impressive array of pictures) I'm not going to bid for any of these, just on the general principle of not buying second-hand sight unseen. But still... the thought of putting down the price of a new Jackie and getting (say) a 48-key Wheatstone is awfully tempting. What do people think - are these boxes likely to have some serious drawbacks that I'm missing? (Does 'tutor' mean 'played to death'?) PS And now for something completely different (18 buttons and 11-fold bellows?)

Thanks for that. If I compare those Jackie layouts with William Meredith's 48-key chord diagrams (an amazing resource), it looks as if the 30-key layout covers almost all the main chord 'triangles'; the only slightly awkward chords are right-hand F minor & E major, both of which need to substitute an flat/sharp with the equivalent sharp/flat from the left hand. Now to save up for a Jackie!

Is there a good concertina tutor written specifically for the 30-key layout? I like the look of Alistair Anderson's book (and CD), but it is written with a 48-key layout in mind; he gives a lot of specific guidance as to what finger should go where, which presumably wouldn't work on a 30-key box.

That's a terrific diagram, which (to my mind) shows just how well designed the 48-key layout is. Is there anything similar for a 30-key EC?

Cheap Wheatstones now: here and here. As a newbie, I've decided not to buy anything unless either it's brand new or I can see it with my own eyes & kick the tyres, so I'm not bidding. But those prices...!

That part puzzled me, so I asked the seller: What condition was it in pre-refurb? What kind of 'service' does it still need, and is it currently in playable condition? He replied: All notes sound good to me but I am not a player of this concertina The refurb took into account springs valves pads but I cant remember tuning the bellows are fine and the woodwork looks good Make of that what you will!

And another! Seems in good nick & possibly a bit of a bargain.

What do people make of this? The auction price is still in two figures, with <24 hours to go; perhaps bidders are scared off by the missing key (I certainly am).

Now standing at £250. At this rate someone's going to get either a bargain or a dog, I'm not sure which.

Concern has been expressed about the ends; I'm thinking of bidding very low indeed, as if I were buying a new entry-level box. The current price is below even that level. (If the ends are replacements, how would that affect playing the instrument?)

And there's this one, which is apparently in reasonable playing order. The auction's so quiet that I'm a bit nervous about bidding for it!

Still, a good buy at that price?

Here's the link. Seller confirms that it's in playing order - "used to be played regularly and has been played recently (to check it out)". I'm guessing the price won't stay as low as it is for long!

The auctioneer's listing still seems to be active - anyone know if this auction took place as planned (yesterday) and if these lots went?

Hadn't thought of that angle. As it turns out import duty is a manageable 3.7%, but import VAT is 20% - and that's payable on the full amount paid up front, including shipping costs. Bang goes that bright idea!

Would you be willing to ship it to the UK? From what I can make out, $325 plus international shipping would still be a pretty good price.

So if (say for example) I had the choice of a nice-looking second-hand 48-key Scarlatti for a couple of hundred quid, or saving up another hundred for a new 30-key Jackie... To save time, does anyone think I should go for the Scarlatti?

Mmm, gracenotes! That Guy is good. (I notice in his comments someone asks him if it doesn't strain his thumbs playing that way, & he says a lot of the weight is borne by his little fingers - ! But I guess it's horses for courses.) What interested me was the apparent difference in build quality between two different Scarlatti concertinas - this second-hand box and a new Scarlatti (small, black, 30 keys) which they were selling for a similar price. The basics are going to be much the same, but is that a known difference - the 'really not very good' Scarlatti and the 'just about bearable'? Or does the varnished wood just look prettier?

This all sounds good! Any thoughts on the actual box I was playing, which is not a million miles away from this one? (Not sure it was that one, but definitely Scarlatti, 48 keys, varnished wood (veneer?).)

Following suggestions on the 'Absolute beginner' thread, I finally held an English concertina in my hands today courtesy of the nice man at Hobgoblin; it was a 48-key wooden-ended Scarlatti, nothing special but nicer build quality than the 30-key total-entry-level box they also had (plus, more keys). As recommended on the other thread, I noodled around on it, mainly by hitting a couple of buttons on the middle two rows on one side & seeing what came out; I got quite a nice New Age-y chord sequence going, which felt pretty good for a first attempt. (I didn't try singing - small shop & no other customers!) I'm just not convinced I was holding it right - or rather, if I *was* holding it right, I'm not convinced me and the EC are going to get on. I got my thumbs through the loops & put my little fingers in the little-finger-stirrup-things, but in that position I found it really difficult to bend my fingers back down to the lower notes. Not only that, but my little fingers seemed to be bearing most of the weight of the thing, so that my hands were quite stiff & cramp-y after putting it down. Is this something you just get used to (in which case I'm really not sure...) or was I holding it wrong?

Thanks for all the comments so far. Based on melodeon frustration, I think the Anglo is out for me - as I say, I like instruments with notes that stay put! Duets are an even bigger mystery to me than English - anyone compare them, particularly from the POV of song accompaniment? (I've also had the impression they were even more fearsomely expensive than English concertinas, but I gather there are some affordable duets out there these days.) A couple of people have mentioned getting a wooden-ended box if possible. I'm intrigued by this - is there much variation in construction at the low end? (Barring a lucky find at a car boot sale, it will be a low-end box I end up getting.) Steve - I'm in Manchester. I go to a tune session & know a couple of box players (hence the borrowed B/C melodeon), but don't know any EC players well enough to ask for a play with their delicate & valuable instrument!