Geoff Wooff

Yes, a slanging match by people sitting behind their pseudonyms. Call me naive but I would much prefer if people used their real names. It does appear a little unfair to discuss, in this hidden way, the relative merits of musicians who, during performances and making recordings, wear their hearts on their sleeves and use their real names. I do not know many of the people on concertina.net, well I assume not, but those I do , because they use their real names, are people I have known for a great deal of time. They are all honest. But, coming to the point of the disscussion on thesession.... years back ITM was very male dominated but these days the women have come to the fore especially in County Clare and particularly on Concertina. It is a fine fine thing. Geoff.

Ok Al, Edirol we have... Gabi uses it for her Cornemuse lessons and general gathering of new tunes, but I don't know what she has it set to (WAV. MP3 etc) so Maybe I will get a ZOOM4 and learn how to use it. The problem with my Bourrée is that whilst it sounds quite intense and 'traditional' on the H/gurdy, when transfered to the concertina there are definate nuances of English balade singing as in 'the boy meets sister in the forest and murders her because he has made her pregnant' type of thing. It is strange and very interesting how a melody can sound so different from one instrument to another. Cheers for now, Geoff.

Truly Al, your kindness is an inspiration. You are welcome here when next in Limousin and I must make a trip back to S.E. England, after all the TGV leaves every morning from our local station, change in Lille, straight into London. I am trying to transfer a 3 time Bourrée, to Concertina, that I made on H/gurdy. It's a minor key piece(Cm or Gm depending on instrumets used) with 4 parts! Maybe that is why I have yet to interest my neighbours " it's tooo esoteric?" We did, however, have great success in introducing a Kerry Slide to our local dance band for dancing the Chappeloise. This 12/8 time feels better for some of the 'circle' dances than using 6/8 Irish jigs, which is not an uncommom practice, but one that can make our teeth hurt due to the straightening out of the internal rhythm. Hmmmm.... I am very fussy about the playing of Irish music so I must be very carefull how I make my Bourrées.... I'll work on it some more... What do you use for recording yourself ? Well I must go and buy a new B-B-Q.... it is getting hot here, Cheers, Geoff.

Rightee ho Al, now tuning up.... crank crank..... gratt gratt..... No seriously, this is nice,I will give it a try and yes on the H/Gurdy. I am finding it easier to make new tunes on the H/Gurdy than on concertina but I have not managed to convince any of the locals to try out these creations, YET. I must go back and listen to your original version of what I thought was "All Day Breakfast".... which I had avoided for health reasons. Around here it is all Sol/Do (G/C) music but we have (D/G) pipes and Hurdy Gurdy too. Always interested to try new tunes and the dancers are keen to have something fresh to inspire them. I will have to pluck up the courage to send in a "morceau" or two if I can learn how to WAV or MP3 in a correct way to attach. I am fairly computer ignorant but "we" have come a long way since that terrible cassette I sent you in 2006. Sun is shining, at last, must cut the grass, Salut, Geoff.

Hello Hyp, as most people play ITM on an Anglo the summer school classes will be focussed on that type of concertina. The Anglo is Chromatic but playing in the "remote" keys might be more difficult than on an English . As to the old question of the suitability of the English Concertina for playing ITM, I feel that music is in your head, so if you understand a musical genre then it is possible to play it no matter what instrument you choose. I have played ITM on the English Concertina for about 40 years (off and on) and eventually came to understand (or came to an understanding with myself) what I wanted in the way of style. After 40 years I am "at home" with this keyboard, like one's own language and so I would be happy to try any new genre of music that took my fancy. However, I now know that to play well I have to understand a type of music as completely as possible. This takes a very long time unless you have good teachers who can point you in good directions and "short cut" the process. When I commence to study a "traditional music" I find an instrument that has been used to play or even 'form' that music. I then study how to play that "traditional instrument" and ,as it happens, I then end up going back to the English Concertina with ,hopefully, a better understanding of how I might approach a style of playing. So, my style of playing ITM on the English Concertina should owe more to the 30+ years I have spent playing Uilleann Pipes than to my attempts to imitate the styles of Anglo players. Many people play clasical music on the EC and I am sure Jazz also. But if you really want a smooth passage towards the music of Noel Hill then maybe you should opt for the Anglo and keep your Jazz improvisations seperate or in keys that suit well to the Anglo keyboard. I should leave the "welcome to Concertina.net" to those who have been here a long time, best of luck with your choice, Geoff.

OUCH Marien!, That sounds very nasty. Some years ago, in County Clare, a lady came to me with serious out of tuning problems on her Jeffries..... She had been Busking at the Cliffs of Moher.... 700 feet above the roaring Atlantic Ocean. The reeds were encrusted with rust from the salty air and I do not think they ever recovered. Another time- another climate; a certain gentleman, arriving at a Folk festival in Alice Springs (read 35-40° degrees Centigrade), jumped out of his car and greeted long lost friends, had a few drinks etc. Next morning, when he awoke, towards midday, there was a nice session happening close by. So, he retrieved his Paolo Soprani from his car and joined in the music. He lasted about two bars before many of his reeds came loose and fell into the bellows. The Beeswax which "sticks" and seals the reeds in situe had melted. It must have been a puzzle putting it all back together. Moral; never mind your dinner or your thirst or the romantic attachement you are busy trying to make..... guard your instrument. I think this is especially important for many of us who play "irreplaceable" instruments. Everybody gets attached to their instrument and to lose it or break it..... oh the tears. Geoff.

Well Alan, I am getting better (faster) at setting up my Hurdy Gurdy, and it does help that it was made by one of the top makers, but my neighbours who play H/gurdy with us in "groups" are very much quicker to organise their instruments but are not that fussy regarding tuning, they just get on with it in a relaxed way. Long years of practice, maybe. Ah FUBU!! Chris; many thanks for your explaination... it sounds about right and logical. I was thinking that the gauze was chopping the sound waves, sort of sieving the notes. I also feel that the newly released sound is not really louder without the gauze but, much clearer. The overall effect though is of a definate increase in useable volume. I would imagine that if the same experiment was carried out using a Jeffries from the earlier period where the fret work was delicate, and thus the "holes" make up the greater part of the surface of the end plates, the results might be less dramatic. I once had a Wheatstone "laffaeola" (not sure if that is the correct spelling) and this had very tiny piercings of fret work in its wooden ends, just enough to let the air in and out. This instrument ,although it had the same internal parts, was very quiet due directly to the type of fret work. Not bad for £8 in a second hand shop though. So, the materials and fretting of the ends does have a marked effect on tone and volume. If this Baritone had metal ends I might not have noticed so much change. One final note; the gauze that I removed was quite fine and I do not think it was original. In the Wheatstone ledgers my 48 treble is listed with the word "gauze" but does not have, or look as if it ever had, gauze, whereas the Baritone is not listed with the gauze word. However, I am very happy that this instrument met the 3 Castagnaris "wall of sound" head-on and pushed them back into their half of the field, like a valiant knight of the musical battle field..... Blah Blah. Right, now where's that ******** Hurdy Gurdy. Geoff.

I do not think that Concertina players really have much to complain about, regarding the continuous good service they recieve from their instruments. If you wish to experience "Frustration" then try playing the Hurdy Gurdy! A typical practice period goes like this; It's 7 in the evening, work finnished, dinner finnished, there is one spare hour before the next interuption, "Yes time to practice my latest tune"..... Hurdy gurdy out of its case, start to tune it... so-so, one string has a bad sound, screeches/ whistles: grates... Baahhh, change the cotton?, maybe the Rosin needs to be renewed or has become sticky or I need to get all the old Rosin off the Wheel and start again... no its just the cotton, take off the worn out cotton and replace, hmmm now that string plays some notes in tune and some not, because I did not get the amount of cotton exactly the same as before.... do I fiddle with the cotton or adjust the offending notes by twisting the "tangents"...... etc.... all this has taken maybe 20-25 minutes and some times longer, for me "the beginner". In the end the Hurdy Gurdy is sounding wonderfull and I am ready to get going on my new tune and the clock says 7.55..... Agggggg. Thats Frustration! This process happens every time unless one is prepared to play out of tune all the time..... Well, Concertina frustrations when they arise can be more difficult to cure, sometimes requiring a visit to "Dockor Sqweeze". I came upon this topic by putting "gauze" in the search box. This because I was looking for a "Gauze or no Gauze" discussion. Yesterday I removed the gauze from a woooden ended Aeola because I thought it was not producing enough "punch" for the amount effort applied. I do not wear "Mohair" sweaters or play by the side of smokey Turf fires so I am not concerned about "things" entering/ getting stuck in the reeds etc. Does anyone here think that a gauze filter in the ends of a Concertina will inhibit the tone/volume produced? Well I really did not think that it would make much difference, but removing it was worth a try. To explain why I need maximum volume; this is a Baritone/treble EC from 1927, I played a T.Treble for many years that was made the week after this Baritone/T and that had ample volume indeed. I am playing with a large band of loud instruments and often cannot hear myself. My, it must look strange, to the audience, when one of the band, some old deaf guy, is trying to play his instrument with his left ear! Well, Geoff, stop waffling and tell us, did the removal of the gauze make any difference? YES it really did!! Last night was "band practice"... This is French "Musique de Centre"... so the band last night was three Cornemuses ( not quite as loud as Scottish bagpipes but strong enough), three Castagnari diatonic accordions, one Hurdy Gurdy and electric bass guitar and some percussion... oh and me playing an octave below the other melody instruments. Not only could I hear myself but so could my wife, above her Cornemuse from the other side of the room! I am amazed and very happy to have found the gauze of the problem. Geoff.

Tona, I agree, this is a very nice recording. Thank you so much for sharing it. Salut, Geoff.

Ah now, Ubik, you are asking the big question. There are several Bandoneon keyboard layouts, but I do not know much about them or which type Eric Thézé uses. If you could find that out it might help in choosing a Duet Concertina. However, on Duet concertina keyboards I am not an expert, but,I think, all the different types are "double action" (play the same note on push and pull) and are usually Chromatic. It is the fact that on a Duet there are two seperate keyboards, so you can play a melody line on one side and a second melody, counter melody,appegios or chords on the other side. This is the way I hear Eric Thézé playing his instrument. My instrument, the English, has only one keyboard, divided equally on each side of the instrument, which surely makes it the most bizare of all, the Anglo has also one keyboard, extended over the two sides. One point you made earlier (or two); that you wanted something small/light and then that you also wanted to have some sound strength, robustness...... well, for me to be able to hear myself play with the band, I am the only accoustic instrument that is "personally" amplified. So I carry a small Guitar amplifier and have a microphone attatched to each end of my concertina, and the amplifier box sitting behind me facing my good ear. I can then adjust the volume as needed, just to balance my sound against several Castagnaris. So, I have to carry more weight around (amplifier/cables/concertina) than if I used a Bandoneon. Just a point. It is a fact that you would get more concertina for your money if you buy a Duet, but will it be easier to play than the other types? I doubt that. For advise on types of Duet systems you would need to ask the Duet players what they think. Best of luck, Geoff.

Well.... I have now done my bit of "homework" listening to some tracks of Eric Thézé playing his Bandoneon, I was not that aware of him and his music so thanks for opening another door for me Ubik . This music is stunning indeed! I would now suggest that if you do not yet have a Concertina and you are really keen to play music like this, then some model of Duet would be my choice. In fact it made me want to start learning a Duet or a Bandoneon, but at 60 maybe I should just try to improve what I have. Checking one of the "small advertisment" web sites here in France I found many many Bandoneons for sale, ranging in price from 500 to 4500 Euros. Not many Concertinas though, so it is Country specific for specific instruments. This website www.leboncoin.fr usually has more items for sale than French ebay and as it is not an auction site, one needs to be able to speak French to phone or email the vendor, but it is the best place I have found for anything on sale in France. Al, yes it will be fun to try out some tunes when we do meet. At present I am just developing my techniques of EC playing of Centre France music, with the local band, which has the usual mix of diatonic C/G accordions, Cornemuses and Hurdy Gurdies. With these we now have Electric Bass Guitar, Viola and Clarinet and me...... it can be quite a crowd, of 14+ musicians, to play for a Bal. But as Steve points out , no matter what instrument, it is down to who is playing and how their head works. salut, Geoff.

I use and English for playing French Mazurkas,scotishs, borrees etc., but I do not see why you could not use any concertina system. The key choice for and Anglo might depend where you live/ who you might play with. I live, in France, on a border between a D/G area and a C/G area, therefore I am happy to play the English as it is happy in most keys. There are a lot of diatonic accordion players in the C/G area but I have not met a Bandoneonist yet. If you are going to play with accordionists then I would suggest getting a LOUD instrument. good luck with you music, Geoff.

Opps! Ralph, have I upset the apple cart, sorry. It was after Joan and I got married (feb. 1975) that we had enough disposable income to speculate in the concertina market. It was in the hard winter of '75-'76 that we found the Ivory ended Wheatstone that is, I think, now in the Horniman collection. There is a nice little story in that one but for another day or another thread perhaps. Geoff.

Hallo Al, yes I am pleased to be here and see so much "action" taking place. I hav'nt been in a musical void, as such, but certainly been seperated from "Concertina life", other than the 14 years of living in Co. Clare that is. I am now back playing EC almost full time because we needed a different sound in our local Limousin trad group. I had started to use my little treble to play with our neighbour's Chabrette (in A) and since I now have the loan of a wonderfull Baritone/Treble Aeola I am using that to add Viola and Cello sounds, between the Hurdy Gurdies/Cornemuses/Accordions which all use the G/C tuning in this area. So between the Irish sessions and the French Bals, I am not getting time to play my Uilleann pipes or H/gurdies. I cannot put faces to those names you mentioned, but I am sure I know them and am happy they are all well and look forward to a reunion. Hi Irene, Hospital visit...... I could do with one of those today, which is why I am on the web and not working. The forth coming CD by Ralph.... wow, will that not be something to look forward to indeed. Sorry there is nothing here from me on concertina band records, my memory does not have that piece of information. Cheers, Geoff.

Interesting. It's often been said to me in the last two years (and more than once by yourself!) that duets were as cheap as chips back then. However, out of interest, I just put that figure through the conversion software for purchasing power of the pound sterling using comparison figures for 1972 and 2008. If you paid that much for the first duet you had at that time , the monetary equivalent that you would be forking out now (or 2 years ago) would have been either £1483.09 using the retail price index, or £2500 using average earnings as a guideline...... so really not that much difference then? If,as I think you said at some point somewhere, your first duet was a 46 button it even looks as though they might have actually cost comparatively more then than they do now - or do I have some miscomprehension of the current going rate for a Maccann of that size in relation to the 57's and 61's of this world at the moment ?? I have to confess that my curiosity was aroused as I recall being offered a job as a trainee town planner in 1973 with an annual salary that was only £520 a year . That tina would have cost around 15 weeks' worth of my salary in those days! As it happened, I didn't take the job - I ended up working first in libraries with even lower pay, and then as a tax inspector with only marginally better pay even then !). As they say ... it makes you think, dunnit??? Hello Irene ( and Ralph and everyone else), I was very interested in your post regarding relative costs for concertinas over the years. So, as the person who sold Ralph his first McCann, I might be able to clarify one point. It was not in 1972 but, I think, late in 1975 or very early '76. This was a period when wages were escalating quickly. I was earning over £3000 pa. and my wife, who was a nurse, was on a salary of £2200.I do not know how this might change your calculations, having not lived in the UK since that period I have no idea of wages and RPI's. I do recall the first tune Ralph played us, he had taken that duet home the week before to "try out" because he was looking for something to get his teeth into. Well, at the following week's band practice we asked how he was getting on with the concertina. He promptly showed us by playing "In The Mood" very well! Then he appologised that he had not worked out any left hand chords for the piece, yet! The last time I met Ralph was in the winter of '79 and as such I have not heard him play since. Well this is my first post to concertina.net so I will wish everyone the best of music, regards, Geoff Wooff.