wunks
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Posts posted by wunks
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3 hours ago, Wolf Molkentin said:
Hi Don, thank you for listening and commenting - I'm glad you like it.
I chose the Model 24 (56b extended treble) over the TT Aeola here because of its superb presence, with fiddle and pipes in mind, even at the cost of having to go without the lovely root note of D minor for the first tune (and possibly giving the second tune a try in the lower octave??).
As to the earlier recording I tried to reflect the meditative mood and harmonical restraint, albeit I already cautiously expanded the harmonies. Still "richer" harmonies would not necessarily mean more voices (perhaps even less, as in one of "my" verses), but perhaps less use of the drone note on the one hand and more application of parallel major modes on the other.
I agree that where I just tried (and achieved I guess) to be tight and atmospheric with the first tune, the melody of the second ("third" actually) is to some extent drowned out by harmony or bass notes. I'll thus have to elaborate more cautious ways for the accompaniment (and replace a few valves too I reckon).
Best wishes - ?
P.S.: I'm throughout indicating the instrument used for a specific tune in the respective notes at SC - it's very annoying that still, several years after the introducing of the new mobile phone app, these remarks are invisible to the listener who doesn't care to switch to his or her notebook or desktop computer...
Sounds lovely. My only (subjective of course) suggestion would be not to play the same roll in the same place every time and use phrases of the tune without ornament on occasion. The harmonies are beautiful but the melody might flow more. ?
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50 minutes ago, Wolf Molkentin said:
I see, you‘re able to really add reeds! seems to make sense - and as to the bisonoric oddity, I‘m curious how you will get along with combining the two worlds...
It's complicated because it involves this Wheatstone Jeff duet which is a bit of an oddball itself and I don't want to hijack the thread. I'd need to get some pictures together and maybe start a new thread later but I'll send you a brief PM.
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7 minutes ago, Wolf Molkentin said:
That‘s what @Little John already did with his Crane to some extent...
I Think it makes sense for my box which has three empty pairs of reed slots at the low end. It seems relevant to this thread also that one could view the section of overlap on a duet as constituting a pair of mini ECs, one for each hand. Playing arpeggios and triplets in a side to side manner when playing mid-range is easier and I think sounds better than switching sides abruptly when you run out of buttons.
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7 minutes ago, Mikefule said:
"... and the duet concertina, which plays duets..." Brilliant summary of a complex instrument.
Great video. Your enthusiasm and humour are infectious.
Perhaps to become more complex. I'm thinking of adding a bisonoric bass row to my Jeffries......?
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Nice looking 18 button EC craigslist western Mass.
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29 minutes ago, Mikefule said:
Apart from that, with any musical skill, find several examples of tunes that require the technique, to give it context. If you learn and practise a technique in isolation, it does not flow nicely when introduced into an actual tune.
I find a good way to add interest when practicing is to multitask by playing tunes that modulate. The switch to another key snaps your brain back into focus. lots of tunes adapted from 2 row melodeon have this feature.
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Just found it on u-tube. "Shepherd's Rocking Carol" nice simple piano rendition by Philip Aaberg. remarkably similar to "twinkle Twinkle Little Star". Merry Christmas!.......?
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1 hour ago, Wolf Molkentin said:
why not provide the dots here? maybe someone would be willing to take it up...
Hmmm... The arrangement is written in 5 parts:
Soprano, alto, baritone, flute and handbells/glockenspiel with optional parts for bells and glockenspiel. Lyrics are included. To be played "softly slowly". Key of G with a 2/2 time signature. I'm assuming the soprano part is the lead. I'll bet it would sound gorgeous with a concertina or two and maybe a dulcimer or bowed psaltry. Lets see if anyone else responds. I'd mail it to someone willing to work it up for a presentation for the holidays!
How would I "provide the dots" Wolf? I'm fairly archaic as to my tech. skills......?
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I've been thinking about tunes to play for the holiday season. While rummaging about in the thrift shop I found an old piece of sheet music for a "Shepherds Rocking Carol" It says it's a Czech folk song. It would take me a couple of hours to parse it out as I don't sight read and then I wouldn't know how it should really sound. Does anyone here know it and , if so would you play it?
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I recently stumbled upon an article in Concertina Magazine from 1985 written by Polly Clap concerning The Jeffries duet system. In it she states that examples were produced by other makers, specifically Crab, Wheatstone and later Colin Dipper. She includes a note chart for a 58 button example and says boxes with up to 88 were produced. I have a rather large Wheatstone Jeff pattern, and a Jeffries 50 button that I acquired in the late 60's early 70's. I also have a chart for a 44b. The Jeffries is a match for Nick Robertshaw's chart but the Wheatstone at 53b is significantly different and the 44b is different from either. It's reeds (Wheatstone's) are arranged in a (conventional?) radial pattern as opposed to the lateral set up of the Jeffries. there are empty spaces for 3 pairs of reeds at the low end which would bring it into compliance (sort of) with the 58b. I'm considering adding these notes and making a couple of other changes to make it match the 58 button, but there seems to be a lot of variation even within Jeffries made instruments.
Does anyone have information about other makers of Jeff duets?
If there are owners here of these duets by Jeffries or any other maker I would be grateful for a note chart to the end of establishing a loose standard for instruments of various button counts. You can simply type the notes in lines followed by a / for end of row, or stack them. Indicate a thumb key with a th. You can PM me so as not to clutter the site. Thanx.
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www.concertinaconnection.com is listing bushed chrome over wood buttons. Flat or domed.
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I'm not sure if this applies to the anglo but with the Jeff duet (same or similar fan shaped button pattern) a lucrative scale is created on the top row as an artifact of "centering" the instrument in C. By shifting one's brain and hand position upward, selecting a tonic from the top row and reaching down for other notes as needed, the fingerings for playing in G#,C#,Eb and F# come readily to hand. This probably won't be of help in session playing but makes things a lot more interesting. I don't know but I suspect this may also be true for anglo, at least to some extent.
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1 hour ago, mdarnton said:
I would not be afraid to hang back and not do anything a lot of the time. One of the things I notice amateur musicians in bands doing is feeling like they have to be playing as many notes as possible, all the time, regardless of what everyone else is doing (which is often playing as many notes as possible, all the time. ) As a bass player, I was certainly guilty of this!
Yep. Less can be more. Another thing that would be interesting is to encourage the string players to pick up lower pitched instruments Mandola Or viola. With two fiddlers in our dance band I've been having a blast playing viola!
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Lots of good suggestions! With three instruments capable of playing lead it can be hard not to garble the melody. As an option I'd suggest a lead in the lower register, a chug (preferably on pa) and a drone or broken drone.
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14 hours ago, RAc said:
Thus, harmonic concerns only play a subordinate role. Most of my playing (which of course is still nothing but amateur level) uses mainly Ohm-Pa in many variations to support the dance rhythm. Since the Crane system nicely supports Power Chords, most Ohm-Pa chord shapes involve only the root note and the fifth (which has the nice side effect that this can be used for both minor and major chords). Thirds, Seventh and other embellishments are fine as either transitionary bass run notes (an example can be heard here: Old Kiss my Lady , first of four sections) or paddings for full chords used to emphasize phrases (same recording, third section. I still don't use a full chord there mainly because of the frictional third in equal temperament tuning that Little John pointed out). A previous discussion on this forum about melody parallel 6th and 10th runs prompted me to incorporate that into a tune (Schottische Roquefort) which I think works quite well if used sparingly and deliberately.
I'll mention this as somewhat relevant to the oom pa portion of this discussion and also because there's a recent thread about hand strap tightness and stiffness. I have an F# thumb key on My Jeffries and can reach the low G on the bottom row as well. On a whim, I loosened the LH strap a notch and slipped my thumb underneath. I was easily and comfortably able to reach The low G,C,and D. Because the strap is both stiff and loose, It held it's shape during this maneuver and maintained contact with the back of my hand for control. It's easy for my thumb to duck in and out as needed. This is important for me because I'm playing melody in the middle of the box when possible so if I want to oom pa, drone or play a bass line my index finger doesn't have to drop down for these notes abandoning it's melody assignments. I'm not familiar enough with the other duet layouts to know if this would be of use. Eh?
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9 minutes ago, Anglo-Irishman said:
That's what I do most of the time. It's certainly quicker and more efficient than trying to work out what is the third, fifth, seventh, tenth or whatever of the melody note, and then wondering which interval is appropriate at this point in the tune!
That's why I find it so important to learn chords on the duet - not to create a carpet of sound or to provide an oom-pah, but to reduce the choice of possible harmony notes to a minimum. I don't have to press down all the fingers that are hovering over the buttons for the given chord.
Cheerts,
John
Me too. The chords are always there waiting in my subconscious. I find myself limiting the melody to just the first two fingers mostly, and reaching out for harmonies almost without thinking.
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2 hours ago, Halifax said:
As always, y'all have been generous with your knowledge/opinions/expertise. The big takaway is that snug straps are okay, that one can reduce the need for a bracing pinkie by resting the bellows on a thigh, that I may want to loosen them as I progress, and that Wunks should either get a new belt, or start wearing yoga pants.
Thanks again!
Best,
Christine
Belt it is then. Headed for the thrift shop A.S.A.P.! ?
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1 hour ago, Wolf Molkentin said:
Yes, exactly.
As I'm not that experienced with using oom-pah accompaniment, I'm not sure about this. My guess would be that always the lowest note would have the oom, and eventually there might be a choice between the nice bass line and the nice line on top of the chord to be made. Of course a chord might then be spread even more or condensed in order to optimally serve both lines.
"Inverted" oom pah is definitely a thing, especially to facilitate an interesting bass line. Piano accompaniment uses it a lot. The only limitation with concertina would be a smaller range to work with to avoid stumbling into the melody. It seems to sound best to bring oom and pah close to each other before crossing over in either direction or use a short run as a transition.
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10 minutes ago, Wolf Molkentin said:
Hi Wunks, thanks a lot as well for your insightful remarks, to which I can very well relate.
First: You‘re actually forcing me to reconsider playing melody notes in the overlap zone with heavier use of grace notes asf., which would be a core technique of playing the EC, but could interest me in combination with another Duet-typical approach I guess.
Second: What you‘re citing by the name of Cross-Picking is very familiar to me, basically from my own playing the guitar, but also as an essential element of my personal approach to the EC.
Re the Duet I could be inclined to either replace or expand this approach, the latter without losing the spontaneity which has been connected with it so far for me. I‘m not sure as of now what will work...
Best wishes - ?
I really don't think any one technique is superior. The duet allows for many different approaches and so places an onus on the player to choose anew for each sitting. Limitations and constraint can yield flavor and character (lots of great music coming from single row melodeon) but by picking up the duet you've lost your innocence and must sally forth to return again in Triumph (pun intd.). Beware the Jabberwock, but I think you're up to the task!
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What you said RAc but I play a lot of Quebecois stuff and I'd go A.W.O.L. from duet for a bit if I found a nice 20 button anglo.
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1 hour ago, Wolf Molkentin said:
I‘ve been talking of a new journey beginning somewhere else - and I‘d like to share my initial thoughts and experiences with the Duet community here.
I should possibly start with saying that the Crane has been my obvious choice here as it can be regarded as a transformation of the Wheatstone keyboard (with which we are familiar from the EC), just omitting the alternation between the two sides.
Of course this alternation is an essential and greatly appreciated element of the English concertina, and I‘m far from just changing sides (pun noticed) insofar. However, there are things that seem to be prompted by the Duet system, and I‘m eager to explore them.
That said it might be obvious that I‘m seeking neither LHS accompaniment plus RHS melody (still doesn’t sound good to my ears) nor just spreading harmonies (melody included) over the two sides (which I have inevitably to do, and love to do, with the English).
So here‘s my point: from initial trying and practising scales, soon expanded to parallel runs of thirds, sixths and octaves and of course playing and enjoying sweet spread harmonies on either side I‘m thrilled by how much can be done just with one hand or the other.
I recalled (and re-read) a statement by Geoffrey Crabb then, saying that the Duet was considered to be two instruments in one: a Baritone on the LHS and a Treble in the RHS. That definitely rang a bell, this is where I want to go...
Apart from the obvious „Call and Answer“ I then tried combining three-part-harmonies with the left hand with melody plus one double-stop-drone (so-to-speak) with the right - sort of playing a small reed organ and a fiddle at once...
What do guys make of that? I could easily go on but guess I should leave it at that in the first place. Any reply will be appreciated!
Best wishes - ?
As I'm just learning my instrument myself, coming from fiddle, guitar, banjo, I can't give specific advice to an already accomplished concertina player. I think I can make some general observations though that may be helpful. First of all the overlap of notes in the mid range not only allows for a seamless transition from the left hand instrument to the right but also makes possible all manner of grace notes and other types of embellishments. I play by ear and tend to improvise and I'm finding that playing in the middle of the instrument is very rewarding. An approach from guitar seems to work well for me and that is what some would call "cross picking". When using thumb and one finger or a flat pick, instead of trying to keep the base line and melody separate, one develops the melody from the chord structure and invades the harmonies when the melody allows. Some tunes are too "notey" for this of course such as fast reels and jigs played in the higher register which need a separate accompaniment (if any). Some keys are not as easy as others. With the Jeffries Pattern centered on C the keys of F,G,Bflat and of course C are delightful and the relative minors come easy. A and D are resisting my efforts so far. I practice this "mid box" approach with slow airs and such like Shenendoah and Da Slocket Light but lots of sung tunes have enough room in the melody for this approach.
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14 hours ago, Anglo-Irishman said:
My experience - and I've had it confirmed by a few others in the Forum - is that, as a beginner on the Anglo, you tend to want the straps snug, but as you become more accustomed to it, you want to slack them off a bit. Perhaps this is because you use the bass and treble ends more frequently as you progress.
As I see it, bellows reversal is an important factor in a bisonoric concertina. That means that we must be able to change from press to draw and back with no "slop" in between.
That in turn means that some part of the hand must always be in contact with some part of the end (for the press), and the handstrap must always be in contact with the back of the hand (for the draw). That would seem to indicate a need for snug straps.
However, on the other hand, we need to give the fingers freedom of movement to reach all the buttons comfortably. And that indicates a need for looser straps.
The only way I can see to escape this dilemma is what most experienced players seem to do: arch the hand so that the heel of the hand and thumb are against the end, while the back of the hand is braced against the strap. This way, the knuckles are not trapped between strap and handrest, and can move freely.
As to control of the instrument, I find that snugness is less important than the quality of the straps. I get best control when the straps are of thick, broad, and above all stiff leather. Thin, pliable straps have to be set snug to hold the instrument up steadily.
Cheers,
John
I just made a new set for my duet from old belt leather that is much thicker and stiffer than the old. There's a marked improvement in control, however I'm having trouble keeping my pants up.?
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15 hours ago, lachenal74693 said:
I had a quick look. Interesting indeed. There is a pointer to what looks like an interesting article at:
http://www.academia.edu/1492605/The_triple_Time_Hornpipe.
This article is fascinating, especially the discussion of "grounds" and "divisions".
Wexford + Third Carol
in Concertina Videos & Music
Posted
It occurs to me that part of my difficulty is that this (Wexford) is a song as well as a tune and when the two are paired it's very smooth. For me the ornamentation puts the melody in a strait jacket and it just sits there unable to move.