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4to5to6

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  1. Edeophone Concertina Lachenal & Co. London wc. N° 57529 et Rd. 129 662 Draguignan, France https://www.ebay.fr/itm/363677919117?hash=item54ace4a78d:g:KFsAAOSwFmNh01S3 Appears to be an antique dealer based on their other auctions so probably not much more info available. What do you think? Potential? .
  2. I just received some white “muslin” fabric from Amazon that I am going to use for replacement cloth baffles: Neotrims UK Finest MUSLIN Loose Weave Cheesecloth Fabric, 100% Cotton, 55 GSM. Semi Transparent Weave. Natural Ecru and White = 129-130cms wide Sold as By the Meter I laid it out flat and generously sprayed both sides with a few layers of red paint and It is a perfect match to the material in my metal ended treble Aeola. I don’t think the thin material will affect the tone noticeably so I want to add it to the inside of my metal ended tenor treble to keep the bugs and other reed fouling debris out. There is some traces of old glue on the onside with an embedded cloth pattern so it was there originally. I also got a metre of it in black as well but it will have to be sprayed to stiffen it up and look the same. Black or red? I have a wonderful 1856 treble once owned by the Bulteel family (Lord Revelstoke) in near perfect all original condition with leather battles. It is my go to instrument for playing quietly at night even with it’s steel reeds... quiet yet still very expressive with great dynamics. It is the quality of instrument I am sure Messrs. Blagrove and Regondi woukd of used. Fast and responsive. Don’t laugh but I play along with the TV (love the commercials) while watching. Another instrument still in the process of restoration is an 1852 treble with it’s original wood battles. It came to me in very poor condition but is coming along. It is beautiful with it's amboyna and green leather and has colored buttons engraved with the note names and accidentals on the tips and nickel silver reeds. No end bushings and so clacky so maybe a tutor model though not sure they were known as this that early on. Wonderful instrument too with lots of character but it is very muffled and subdued but then again it could also be the reeds. I much prefer the dynamics of the wooden baffled Bulteel with it’s leather baffle and steel reeds. Maker’s label and serial numbers are attached to the baffles as someone previously stated. The thin wood baffle had the serial number stamped right into it. If you do remove your baffles, make sure you add an equivalent thickness spacer to the wooden posts supporing the thumb straps and pinky slides. PM me if you would like photos of any of the above.
  3. Thanks Geoff. Very nice instrument! I’ll try my best to figure out what makes these “golden age” Wheatstones play and sound so good. The first thing I immediately noticed was the air holes in the action plates are a bit different... There is much more variation in hole sizes compared to my 1919 TT and 1919 McCann and other photos I’ve seen. They must of spent a lot of time better balancing the chamber air pressures and air flows by tweaking the air holes and pad sizes and probably also their locations over the reeds I would guess. Interesting. Balancing these pressures resulting in consistent fast reed attacks through out the range of the instrument would definitely increase the ease of musical expression. I wish I was there to give it a try. I can’t wait to draw it up and model it in SolidWorks. I’ll also do my 72B McCann in hopes that the reed scaling is somewhat the same so I can temporarily rob some reeds from it. I’ll find out. I still need an affordable CNC router and some other tooling and especially a good source of quarter sawn rock maple in Western Canada to make this happen but these will come.
  4. It’s been a struggle... I’m really only doing this because I badly need a baritone treble English for some parts I want to record. I was going to start building concertinas a few years ago but there is so few players in my part of the world that I ended up discouraged. I do my best to promote the instrument by getting decent good playing affordable instruments into young players hands and trying to chase the sharks away. I have been analyzing what makes a concertina good and bad for year's now mostly by rescuing instruments and analyzing them. I recently picked up an 1856 Wheatstone treble originally owned by the Bulteel family (Lord Revelstoke) and it is amazing. Just as good as any Aeola. Mr. Blagrove also bought one on the same day. It is a fairly simple instrument even though in the highest price range of the time so the added value must of been because of the reeds. It completely changed my view on the older instrument and taught me a lot about reed quality. I am sure most of my other old ones would be put in the bin by most restorers. I do have an Excellsior with great reeds that I could redo the wood parts on. It is so warped that I named it Pringle. I spent maybe 80 hours on it and it does play and sound awesome now but there is no value in it and I could never sell it because of the warpage even though it is currently air tight. Maybe this one would be a good one to copy as a first try... quick reeds, great dynamics and a clear tone. Not as responsive or expressive as an Aeola but still a real joy to play with its clarity. I will eventually make everything including the reeds myself if I can get things together and then experiment with new ideas as well but I would like to start slowly to at least try to get my workshop together again.
  5. I want to design and build a complete 56B baritone treble english by the end of 2022. The reed scaling (thickness, width, length of reed tongues), chamber sizes including reed pan taper, the action plate hole sizes and their location over the reeds... details like the slot shape and size underneath the reeds... these are currently mysteries to me. I think I can work out the action levers, pivot points, spring rates and stiffness and the valve leather thickness / size can be easily tweaked to get right. I want to keep the feel as uniform as possible. I would also like the dynamics, responses, tuning, etc. to be as even and predictable as possible across the full compass of the instrument at all volume levels. I want clarity and quick predictable response for superior musical expression. These are not easily adjustable with out making the reed pans and the reeds over and over. Are there formulas for these items or was it figured out through mainly time, experience, trial and error, etc.? I often think about how much the three generations of crafts men and women who collaborated, lived and breathed concertinas their working lives must have known? Wow! I was going to sell two instruments that I am not using and simply purchase a vintage BT Aeola but local demand is lie, shipping and taxes etc. are high... and most of all BT prices are much too high and the selection of quality instruments much too dmall (the supply and demand thing) so I am seriously thinking it is best just to build one. It will be the unexpected next step in my concertina life. I have the technical craftsman background and musician’s ear and know what a great concertina is do why not? Tell me if you think I am crazy to do this. I will start by building regular fretted amboyna wood ends and then ebony dot / comma ends for my raised metal ended ultra fast, short stroke, wall paper peeling loud, Wheatstone model 22 48B treble. This will give me three configurations to compare against each other and to get the cnc router programming and machining working well. I am then contemplating using the reeds from my 9-1/2” Aeola 72B McCann duet to build the 8” Aeolla 56B baritone treble English as the next step. I’ll copy everything that is already there as a starting point and to hopefully find out the many things that I don’t know that I don’t know. It would be nice however if there were studies and design formulas to use to calculate and build the entire instrument including the reeds. Mathematical modeling is a great start. Trial and error is necessary but time consuming and wastes material. I’ve seen formulas for calculating pipe organ pipes and read piano and violin string length studies but have seen very little on free reed design. How I wish I could go back a 100 years and be a fly on the wall for a few days at the Wheatstone and Lachenal factories. Today we have high speed video to see things they couldn’t see and computers to do modeling and simulations and cnc routers to make the same piece predictably over and over and over again but nothing beats 150 years of multi generational experience and collaboration! Wow! Free reed chamber sizing and reed tongue scaling info would be especially valuable.
  6. Free reed chamber sizing and reed tongue scaling info would be very valuable to me as well.
  7. It has steel reeds in brass shoes. Good. looks all original with no replaced reed tongues and there was possibly some tuning done recently. Could you give me the two dimensions (across the two different flats) please? Or maybe a photo with a ruler across the action plate? I have a 48B lachenal baritone that appears to be very similar with 190/199mm across the flats (2 measurements as it a slightly stretched instrument). That's 7.5 / 7.84 in inches. Has it been tuned to A=440 concert pitch? Interesting instrument. My gut feeling is still that it is some type of limited compass baritone. You say it is an F instrument. Does this mean that the normal C button position is an F (LH side, 2nd row over from thumb strap, bottom button)? The action plates appear to be mahogony. I wonder how this affects the tone? Probably a bit more “snap” to the notes as compared to European sycamore or American rock maple. Are the action plates flat? Any serious warping? .
  8. Hi Geoff, I’ll send you a personal message. Can you trust this total stranger? I honestly don’t know if I would do it myself??? Hmm??? I’ll give you my number and we can chat.
  9. I am still searching for a 56 button baritone treble. Nothing is coming up that I can afford. I could also really use a bass concertina. Does anyone have one of these in any condition for sale at an entry level price? I can fix it up. I’m getting really good at restoration work (out of necessity). I’ve done everything except for a complete bellows.. I just bought a cheap skiver so this too will happen soon. I am going to first make some amboyna ends then hope to make my first complete instrument soon after this. It’s going to happen. How about this… I would be willing to trade restoration work on this or another instrument if you would let me use your baritone treble for a month or so to do some recording. There must a lonely baritone treble out there somewhere that needs some love and to be played! Any ideas?
  10. What are the two dimensions across the flats? It looks like a baritone to me, maybe even lower. Any chance of taking an end off and including a photo of a reed pan? Interesting. Has it been tuned to A440 or is it still in old pitch? I would love to see the reeds.
  11. Just came across this thread… Lots of great comments! Concertinas are all good so nothing there but I am restoring some old leather cases if I can find the missing latch parts to finish them. Pretty boring stuff but I am practicing the chromatic scale on the EC daily (a New Years resolution) and am working on some classical pieces (Bach and Clementi).
  12. I’m still searching for an Aeola, etc. baritone treble EC. I’ve had 4 or 5 possibilities but nothing solid yet.
  13. That’s funny, I’m working on an old Salvationist instrument right now with a black painted bellows. Perfect ends, zero warping and am starting to think that they may be amboyna but the entire instrument has been painted black. Pleasing God is important and hopefully that was case. He did give us sunsets, snow capped rocky mountains, stars at night and amboyna to enjoy so I may just have to strip that paint off
  14. Bellows conditioning seems to be a very controversial subject… Lanolin and shoe polish is my choice for an old unused bellows that is stiff from hardened leather. I personally use Connolly Hide Care on the gussets and hinges, etc. inside and out. I’ll take both ends off and stretch out the bellows and apply it with a small brush or my fingers trying to keep it off the cardboard and paper surfaces as much as possible. After it has sat for an hour or so, I’ll clean off any excess, put it back together and “play in” the instrument for a week. If needed, I’ll then do it again. After all the old leather has softened up, I’ll finish off a solid black or solid green bellows by shoe polishing the outside. If the bellows has decorative papers, I’ll usually only apply Connolly to the inside to avoid staining. i’ve never had a glue joint fail or problem in any way in over 6 years conditioning over 10 bellows, everything from 1852 to 1942 Lachenals and Wheatstones and using them for years afterwards. I’ve later added patches, etc. with no adhesion problems. On the other hand, I’ve seen the damage that occurs to hinges, top runs and especially gussets if the instrument is played with stiff dry old leather that hasn’t been conditioned after sitting for many years. It’s amazing what Connolly’s will do! Leather is amazing if taken care of well. The other option is just to replace the bellows with a new one but why not rescue the old one if possible and save a lot of time and money. Lanolin and shoe polish is my choice.
  15. Thank you for the heads up Robert. I guess I had better start buying Lotto tickets! Probably too rich for my blood but put my name on the baritone-bass. Would this be equivalent to a 56B tenor-treble but one octave lower? This should cover most or all of my low frequency needs. I am sure that the worse of what you have exceeds the best of my humble collection and would love them all but I have to live with and be thankful for what has come to me over the years. I would love to get your entire collection but I’m trying to keep things as simple as possible and again be thankful for what I have and concentrate on being a musician first. I do need a baritone or baritone-bass, that’s all for now. Thanks again. Keep me posted.
  16. Baritone Treble English wanted to buy. Please help. I promise to love and play your unused baritone treble if you are willing to part with it. I am searching for a model 14 56 button baritone treble English concertina. Low G to High G. I would also consider a mod 15 (62B Low G to high C) or a model 16 (64B Low F to high C). Prefer wooden ends but would consider metal. I am also very open to a 56 button extended downward baritone-bass (one octave below a tenor treble) but understand that these are quite rare. I would first prefer a top period 31xxx Wheatstone Aeola but beggars can’t be choosers so will consider any instrument in any restorable condition. Prefer tuning to be A=440 but it can be in old high pitch and I will do the tuning and valves myself. I am located in Western Canada but will gladly get the right instrument shipped to myself from anywhere in the World. I am not a frequent buyer so any tips on where to look are welcome. I would prefer to buy directly from the owner if possible versus dealers or auction houses, etc. The history and pedigree of the instrument is always of great interest to me.
  17. You will have to look inside. Remove an end and pull out one if the reed pans. Be careful not to mix up the end bolts. There will be a paper maker’s label on the inside surface of the reed pan. It will most likely say Lachenal or Wheatstone on it although sometimes I’ve seen the Lachenal scraped off to make it look like a Wheatstone. You then have to go by the serial number. Serial number is usually stamped into every individual part. It looks like a standard 48 button treble English…. Probably 1850 to 1870 or so. Box looks like a Wheatstone. I’ve seen this brown felt used with 1860s Wheatstones.
  18. Post a quick sound sample if possible. Most phones can do decent recordings these days. Interesting discussion…. I use to completely disregard these older 6-sided instruments until I got one previously owned by Lady Bulteel (Revelstoke) whom studied under Mr. Blagrove. The instrument was probably played by Regondi. It is a very plain looking instrument in-spite of being at the highest end of the ledger price range at the time. I found out why… It plays just as well as any high end newer Aeola! That’s when I realized it’s all about the quality of the reeds. It is also extremely clean with no warpage so it was stored very well. That makes a difference. I’ve yet to hear anyone play like Regondi and the other early masters and these are the instruments they used. It’s all in the quality of the reeds. Exotic woods and gold plating is nice for an antique I’m sure adds a few extra few percents but it’s the insides that make it a musician’s instrument. They made bellows different back then. The cards were much deeper with the first fold being offset so the instrument opened up a lot more and was protected better. I like my newer (80 year old) Aeola with it’s original factory 8-fold bellows but never run out of air with my 160 year old 4-fold Bulteel Treble. I actually find that less folds gives more control and therefore more expression in my music. As said, if you do take an end off, please don’t mix up any of the bolts. Bolts were somewhat individually custom made back then so lengths and threads may not always be the same.
  19. Hi Paula from Finland! Great to see you here. Perfect question. Unfortunately, your concertina is in the missing Wheatstone ledger so no detailed records are available: http://www.concertina.com/ledgers/lookup/index.htm I would say it’s circa 1893 based on these two close serial numbers: 21509 - 19 June 1893 21571 - 30 March 1893 http://www.concertina.com/ledgers/indexes/1830s-to-1890s-serials.htm Besides rare higher end exotic antique collectable features, the value of a concertina as an instrument in my humble opinion is in the original quality of the reeds and then how well it was stored and taken care of over it’s life. For example, moisture can warp and crack reed pans and rust reeds, crack and rot the bellows... Worse yet, moths and termites destroy! You’ll have to look inside for a complete evaluation. Steel reeds have the best volume and dynamics, etc. while brass and nickel-silver although sounding sweet are considered more entry level. It has the felt bushings around the keys so it’s not a complete bottom of the line, entry level instrument. Leather is still there on the pinky rests with no apparent cracks in the fret work so it has a lot of potential. Original leather baffles are there. It appears to be a clean tutor instrument probably untouched in old high pitch (about half a note higher than modern A440 tuning). I am always interested in instruments like these as they are perfect to fix up to get the younger generation interested. Message me if you want to part with it. I am fixing up a very similar one right now I just picked up locally with no warpage but cracked reed pans and a few cracked reed tongues and two broken end bolts but beautiful amboyna ends in spite of the nickel silver reeds and coloured bone buttons. It will never be a really great instrument but I’m going to do my best to give it some life again and pass it on. As a side…. There’s never any profit to be made on these instruments unless very pristine unfortunately… especially compared to the higher end instruments… so to restore one of these tutors is truly a labour of love. With a bit of patience, an Aeola in similar condition can be picked up for maybe $1500 for example and then restored and sold for $4000 to $5000 to possibly even make a profit or at least earn a decent hourly wage. Your instrument is worth maybe 300 to 500 max (Canadian $) if decent inside and then it would be a tough sell at $1500 no matter how much work one puts in to it. Like I said, fixing up these instruments is a labour of love. I’m not on here much but have been doing some reed tongue material research lately so you caught me at the right time. Great question. Hope this helps you out and I also hope the regulars don’t jump on me too much. Just my humble opinion as already stated.
  20. Went for 1,253.50 USD https://shopgoodwill.com/item/133656346 http://www.horniman.info/DKNSARC/SD02/PAGES/D2P0490L.HTM My heart leapt when I first saw the ledgers but it’s clearly not a gold button tortoiseshell, still… a very nice unrestored golden era 1926 Aeola.
  21. Can’t we just keep this about the instrument and it’s history? I am trying to be positive. They did tell me how a guy from Texas offered $2500, then $1500, then wanted free shipping, then wanted no tax, etc. etc. One of the many stories. It was all quite embarrassing to me as I’ve worked hard to promote the concertina in my area. I’ve learned a lot of lessons through all this. I really don’t want to talk about all the negative parts of this sale. Believe me, I’ve had countless negative experiences with the concertina as a commodity. I’m really surprised I made it sometimes when I was used so badly when new to it all. I lost a lot. It’s why I now fix up old low end instruments and give them away. I hope they called me because they could see how passionate I am about the instrument. They know they could of got a lot more online. I’m done... It’s time to go play Beeswing and few other happy other up beat tunes on my new old gem. Have to fix that one slightly leaking pad still. I would rather discuss Sailor and the Mermaid by the Gothard Sisters. I love the variations in this piece. Wonderful!
  22. Everyone of my concertinas has their stories... This is probably going to be really boring to most so beware... I completely let this one go as their original $3500 asking price was way too high and my original assessment of the instrument was that it was really poor with multiple notes sounding, etc. and I couldn't see inside and the war era, etc. I felt that I’ve seen all this before so said forget it. I made them what I thought was a fair offer based on c.net comments, etc. and that was the end of it. Then a few weeks later there was all the sudden c.net interest so I went back last Saturday to volunteer to do some minor work on it in hopes of getting it working better and to take some photos of the inside to post. I brought in my own instrument and took the end off to show them the process but they wouldn’t even let me see it again so went home disappointed and that was the end of it again. I was a bit upset at their response and some comments they made but just let it go. Monday afternoon I then get a few very low resolution photos of the inside from them with no comments. They were obviously brave enough to take it apart themselves after my demonstration. Good thing I explained how the screws shouldn’t be mixed up, etc. I saw the reeds had brass shoes so that was one question answered. Then... late Tuesday after 9:00 PM I get a short text accepting my original offer. “The concertina is yours”. At first I didn’t even know who it was and sent a quick text back but got no response. Then I saw the email so phoned even though it was late. When I went in the next day after work they said they were getting multiple offers that never went anywhere so were done with it and all the games and just wanted a quick and simple cash sale. They obviously had some negative experiences. I took one end off to check it out and saw how clean it was so that was good enough for me. It had a number of fouled reeds still so I couldn’t play it but no notes were continually sounding this time to my surprise. I gave them the cash, put it in the trunk, then was off to the Salvation Army thrift store across before they closed to keep my wife happy. All they would tell me about it's history was that it was purchased from a gentlemen in his early 60s who said it had always been in their family since new. I paid really low for it but don’t want to say here in case I ever sell it again. After the events last week, I am sure that it will come back and bite me if I do. Should I feel guilty especially after discovering it is in factory A440 modern pitch with untouched reeds? The question I’ve thought about is what did the original owner get? I will most likely will never know but I’m sure the store made a good profit. i spent all day yesterday working on it. I’m not an expert but have a techie background and have done maybe 10 concertinas now over 7 years with no terrible results. I know my limits but am comfortable with bringing them back to life, conditioning bellows, minor repairs, etc. I don’t tune yet. I rescue the strays even if no interest to me so I can fix them up with the intent to give them away (or at the most break even) to increase concertina awareness and interest in my area. I think I may just have to keep this one especially with it’s nearly perfect 8 fold bellows and clean inside with no warping and especially because I just love playing it with it’s superb dynamics and tone. I am still curios to know more about the Wheatstone switch over to A440 and if it was actually 1939 and what was happening with them during the war if anyone has any info about this. Photo attached of repaired air button with new bone guide pin.
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