Troy

That is the page I was talking about where Castiglione uses pictures of vintage concertinas to sell Stagi concertinas. http://www.castiglioneaccordions.com/concertinas.html On that page, if you go down to the section called English Concertinas, you will see the photo of vitage concertinas, but if you read the description and even the model number: A-48 is the same model number used by Stagi: http://www.brunnermusica.com/concertine.php?categoria=4&id=20 Devious, isn't it? ~~Troy~~

I usually round up the price to the nearest hundred to take care of fluctuations, and I use the worst shipping price to estimate my final costs: baritone EC is 3300 Euro. Using money converter, that amounts to $4492.79 CAD. I round this up to $4495 CAD. Then I figure in the PST/GST in my country (Canada) and province (Manitoba): $4495 x 1.12 = $5034.40. And I round it up again to $5035. Then I estimate the shipping price with insurance to be around 200 Euros. That is $272.79 CAD which I round up again to $275 CAD. So my final price estimate comes to $5035 + $275 = $5310. Assuming the courier charges custom brokerage fees which I will put at $100, this will bump up the price to $5410. And then, bank-to-bank wire transfer costs about $30 to $60. So this will bump up the price again to $5470. So there it is. I did say close to $6000 in my original post, didn't I? ~~Troy~~

These are my thoughts as well. As someone who would invest close to $3,000 on a concertina, the inclusion of the top three notes would make it worthwhile and satisfying. Or, for three reeds less of 48, they could have reduced the price by a couple of hundred. I've also checked out the Geuns baritone because they have 48 reeds, but my goodness look at the price! Close to $6,000. I didn't know that the top three reeds can cost $1,000 each... ~~Troy~~

Just to be sure (that I am not maligning Castiglione Accordions unfairly, needlessly and baselessly) I went to take a peek at their website just now. As far as I can see the concertinas and the bandonions are lumped together and are now all supplied to them by Stagi. I also noticed that their website has again undergone a re-vamp. They are now using the actual pictures of Stagi concertina (the ones that come from the brochures of Brunner Musica) and no longer the pictures of vintage concertinas. I also noticed that the descriptions are brief, less detailed and no longer mentions the handmade reeds and/or prices. I went to the website of Klingenthal and they seem to be only making bandonions. I have visited a couple of accordion forums, and there are mixed feelings/reviews of Castiglione's accordions. Some people seem to have had no problems with them and there are some who feel they have been ripped off. ~~Troy~~

The highest 2 or 3 notes on both sides are slow to respond. Other than that, I don't think there's a problem with the other notes (though I have to confess that I have not touched the concertina for a month). I could just barely complete an octave of major scale (at 1 second per note) on a single pull or push of the bellows. If you search on Youtube for Liberty Bellow's demo of their 56-key Stagi, you will see the girl was pulling the bellows to its full extent. When I first watched it (before I got my own box), I thought how uncomfortable her playing was but chalked it up to her skill/technique. Now that I got mine, I now understand why. If I could just stabilize the buttons and somehow "fix" the bellows leak (though the problem could also be the valves/padding), the top notes would respond faster and the bottom notes will have a bit more volume for my taste. ~~Troy~~

There are a few people who has suggested elsewhere in this forum that Stagi reeds are arranged like accordions reeds inside the box. I have also read of one person who owned and was selling his 56-key Stagi on this forum a couple of years ago, and he said that the reeds are rivetted on this model. I am hesitant to open my box right now as I don't have the time or space around the house where it can sit open without getting disturbed, and on top of that, the winter is rather prohibitive for running around procuring materials and tools for the repair. I still believe the repairs needed by this concertina are going to be minor enough to put it into good working order (as opposed to "just working"). I will post what I find sometime in April (after our G & S production of "Mikado" is done ). ~~Troy~~

I still have my communications with John Castiglione (owner of Castiglione Accordions) in email format, in which he admits that their English concertinas are supplied to them by Stagi. I ordered the one with handmade reeds (and I explicitly made it clear over the phone with John and in my emails with John that I want handmade reeds with the concertina and that I will pay the extra $$ for them), but when the invoice came, it did not show that handmade reeds were ordered with the concertina. As far as I am concerned, Castiglione Accordions may be a legitimate business, but they conduct their business like sc&mm3rs. They have updated their websites, and like I said in my other post, they made quite a bit of misrepresentation on it. For example, they used pretty pictures of real vintage concertinas. Stagi concertinas are not like that. The english concertina I got are black-ended and are made from some kind of thick dense plastic, certainly not wood or metal ends. For the same price I paid for the Stagi, I could have just instead bought a Hohner Nova I 49F free bass accordion. Except, for the life of me, I still wonder why couldn't the guys over Hohner just have throw in an extra row on the right side to make it into 5-rows (and hence completely isomorphic)??? Since blue-eyed-sailor put me to task for choosing a 56-key TT concertina over a 48-key treble, I've done a bit more reflection over it and I now can concede that a 48-key baritone concertina will suit me and my needs just as well. I am right now eyeing the Morse Geordie baritone, but again, for the life of me, why couldn't those guys over at the Button Box have just thrown in the extra 3 reeds to make their Geordie concertinas 48 keys instead of just 45? I just don't see the rationale for removing 3 reeds... Why? Why? It seems to me that businesses nowadays has a policy of leaving features out of their products to keep their customers coming back for more. ~~Troy~~

No, no. I still have my 56-key Stagi EC sitting in the dark corner of my room. I'm still unhappy with it. But I will not be selling it until I've tried to remedy the defects over this coming summer. If I'm still not satisfied, I'd either give it to my 8-year old nephew or sell it. Either way, the recipient would have a slightly better concertina than what I originally got. My experience is so lamentable. It just pains me to even look at it now. I'd advise anybody interested in buying a Stagi to buy it new, complete with warranty papers, compare vendor prices and vendor customer service history carefully. Buy from the Button Box or Liberty Bellows, and avoid Castiglione Accordions. Also, to remember that Stagi does not bush the buttons on their EC, and that they were probably making the task of inserting the buttons through the keyholes easier for them by making the keyholes much larger/wider than the buttons. In addition, the EC I got has leaky bellows (i.e., it stretches a a little too quickly when held from one side). One other thing, the eBay seller is from Connecticut which is quite a distance away from Canada where I live right now. :-) ~~Troy~~

I'm not sure the Concertina Maintenance Manual will be much help with a Stagi. It was written as a guide to repairing concertinas constructed in the British-style, a very different thing from the way Stagis are put together. The Concertina Maintenance Manual may still be good to keep. I thought the Stagi only have their reeds arranged like an accordion's, but other than that, my understanding is that the rest of the mechanism is pretty similar to a concertina. That is, you have some kind of a lever system the key/button on one end and pads on the other end which is held down by a spring of some sort to cover/open a hole. Maybe I'm wrong. I am not really qualified to speak on the subject. I will have to wait to have everything together and for the winter to let up so I would have some safe isolated place to open up the concertina and see the actual scope of the problem. ~~~

4000 GBP = 6330.36 CDN. Why can't I win the lottery when I need it? Maybe I should go see my parents and ask for my inheritance now...

Hello Mike, I posted an update in the original thread. I did not feel it was a satisfactory outcome, but it was better than nothing given that the vendor is in the US and I am in Canada which makes it difficult to further chase the matter.

Quick update: January 11, 2013 - I sent a third email to John Castiglione. January 15, 2013 - Having not received any response from John, I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau (Western Michigan). January 17, 2013 - I got a phone call from John. He was telling me their store was closed till January 2, and he did not receive my emails. (That's weird: he sure did not have any trouble receiving my emails when I was still purchasing the concertina from him). He said I should have called him when I did not receive any email response and that is how he do his business. He said I have too high an expectation regarding the quality of the concertina I ordered from them (That's weird: if you read their website, it boasts that their concertinas are high-quality). Anyway, he agreed to credit $200 back to me. January 20, 2013 - I checked my credit card statement and saw the $200 reflected in my account. Actually, it's not exactly $200. Because of the US-to-Cdn exchange rate, I only got $191.50 credited back to me. Other updates: I finally was able to contact our local accordion technician. He is now 80, pretty much retired. And he only did one or two minor concertina repairs in the past, so is reluctant taking this job/project on. So it looks like I will have to make the necessary repairs/improvements myself. I ordered the Concertina Maintenance Manual. It has been shipped but I have not received it yet. Afterward, I will have to order my materials (and some tools) after I have read the manual. It looks like nothing will get done until summer comes around for this project. Aside from the concertina, I have two Harmonettas that need tinkering. One has rattling reeds (pads?/valves?) and some choked notes. The other one plays more reasonably but has one note that plays even when no button is pressed down. So this is going to be quite a learning curve. Question: What basic tools am I going to need to perform the repairs above (aside from the hand-held tapered reamer)? Any suggestions would be welcomed. Thank you to all who contributed to this thread.

As most of you probably know from another thread, I just got burned from a recent purchase. I bought a 56-key Stagi EC and it turned up at my doorsteps with loose buttons, some slow-to-respond reeds and leaky bellows. And it looks like I will have to make the repairs myself (or at least, attempt to make the repairs), seeing that our one and only local accordion technician here has pretty much retired (he is now 80) and is reluctant to take on the job because he has little experience in fixing concertinas. In the meantime, I had been looking around eBay for a decent vintage concertina that I can still afford with what is left of my budget. And this this one turned up: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48-Key-English-Wheatstones-Concertina-/390529915218?clk_rvr_id=442135584869 However, I am feeling hesitant with my purchases now (given my experience) and I want to be more cautious. So I would like to solicit our more experienced members' comments/opinions about the aforementioned concertina, before I start bidding. Is this ad legit? What do you think is a fair price for this concertina?

Yes, I'll keep still for now. I'll start tackling this problem again at end of this week or beginning of next. Troy It is almost a week and I have yet to hear from Castiglione Accordions about a return/refund or exchange on this Stagi concertina. I will keep my fingers crossed that he will be decent enough to respond to me with some kind of resolution for a few more days. Maybe I'm getting too impatient. Troy

Forgive me, but bushing previously unbushed ends is not quite that straightforward. The essential step you have ignored is reaming out the holes to make them big enough! It can be done, but it is not all that simple, as Don says. If you make the holes too large, you have essentially ruined the instrument. If you are determined to do it, buy yourself a hand held tapered reamer and go slowly. Start reaming slowly from the backside of the grill. Make sure you have the material at hand, cut in a strip about 1/8" wide. Ordinary felt is no good. It has to be woven felt. Real wool billiard felt will work in a pinch, but the special woven felt from an organ supply house is best. It usually only comes in red. It is a trial and error procedure, especially the first time. Go slow, trying for size frequently. Once you are sure you have the right size hole with the felt installed and the button passes through without drag, remove the felt so you can mark the reamer with some masking tape to indicate how deep to go with the rest of the holes. Once they are in and the glue (hide glue) has dried, compress the felt a bit by inserting a pencil or similar object into the hole from the back side with a twisting motion. I'd be happy to assist with advice if you call me. Hello Mr. Edgley, thank you very much for your valuable input. I will make sure to print it out and give it to the accordion technician/repairman when I bring my concertina (and Harmonetta) to him for fixing. His name is Carl Teplitski. There was an article about him in the Winnipeg Free Press in 2004. It seems to me that he is the only accordion technician around here. Troy

Yes, I think it is! Stagi-Mechanics. You might even push any button through "its" hole and lose it completely... Nothing to get fixed without changing the action in general, I'd guess... I stumbled over "Castiglione" in early 2011 (which means that they're already in business for some time), shortly before I finally got my 48k Lachenal EC, which fits my needs terrifically. I would like to amend my statement. Only about a third of the buttons of my Stagi sink all the way down to the surface of the end plates. The rest of the buttons sink to about 1 mm (maybe less by a hair) above the surface. With my constant exposure to keyboards (where up to 10-note chords/harmonies are possible), I find the 48-key treble concertinas limiting for song accompaniment for my voice (when you're singing, you don't want your accompaniment/backup ringing above you all the time -- well, speaking for myself, I do not want the accompaniment to upstage my voice when I am singing). If I was going to get a 48-key concertina, I would opt for a baritone. But why stop at 48? In fact, the 56-key tenor/treble is already a compromise for me. If I really have a choice of EC, I would go for the baritone/treble but they are too expensive (almost as much as my used Hammond XK-3c Pro organ) - it provides for both song accompaniment for the male voice, choral hymns and classical solo pieces. And if I won the lottery, I would also have gotten myself an 81-key Crane duet. In fact, I thought I've saved enough for a 60b+ Crane, but when that 66-key Crane was showcased last month on eBay for $4000+, I was just floored. Oh well, on with the search... Troy Troy

Yes, I'll keep still for now. I'll start tackling this problem again at end of this week or beginning of next. Troy

I wouldn't advise impatience quite yet. From what you say, you've been waiting less than 24 hours for a response, and it is the Christmas-New Year's holiday week. I don't know about Castiglione, but many shopkeepers whose business doesn't explode during the Christmas season will take the entire week off. If that's the case here, then your email may not even be seen until late next week. I agree. I'll bide my time until next week. But in the meantime, I'll try to get F. Edgley's and the local accordion repairman's opinion on whether this problem(s) can be fixed within a $300 budget or not. I still believe this concertina can still be salvaged. Troy

Yes I've been meaning to do that. I guess, at the back of my mind, I've been secretly hoping that he was lurking around the forum, and reading this thread. But I will email him my Youtube clips and see what his opinion is: whether it is worth repairing or not. Troy

I did mention in my email to the vendor that I've asked for advise from concertina.net. Hopefully, he will help me fix this problem. If not, my 7-year-old nephew will have an especially expensive gift two years from now. Troy

The Stagi concertina has so far cost me $1360: The $1200 price of the concertina and $160 in custom duties/taxes. The $300 I have not spent yet - this would be my budget to get a repairman to put bushings around the buttons and maybe correct the action or some of the reeds. Troy

For the price I paid for this Stagi, I could've bought two solid-wood reed organs/harmoniums or a Leslie speaker for my Hammond organ (Maybe not Leslie's because they are priced around $2500). The end plates on this 56-key Stagi looks and feels like some kind of thick plastic to me. Now I couldn't even use this concertina as kindle - it's going to smother me in thick black smoke!

I've emailed John Castiglione last night about the wobbly buttons, and even included a link to my Youtube for him to check out for himself. I still have not received any response from him so far. I have also searched my place for the warranty papers, and all I could find is the invoice that came with the concertina and the custom papers that are usually stuck outside the shipping box. I pulled out the concertina last night, and noticed a few other things (which I included in my email to Castiglione Accordions): 1) I found a couple of notes/reeds that is slow to respond in the middle range of the concertina 2) When pressed, the buttons sink all the way down such that their tops sit flush with the end plate surface (is this how they're supposed to be?) In the meantime, I am getting antsy about getting it fixed. My thoughts are: should I just bite the bullet and get it fixed by a local accordion repairman (and void the warranty, if there is one)? It pains me to think how stupid I have been and how I may have been screwed twice over unwittingly. Maybe it'll go away if I send the concertina away for fixing. You know: out of sight, out of mind? Troy

I remember a TV news report warning us Canadians about buying stuff willy-nilly from the USA, a few days before this past Black Friday. They said that some merchandise lose their warranty the moment they cross the US-Canada border. So my Stagi have probably lost its warranty already. I'm going to have to check the papers it came with when I get home tonight. I just looked around the Castiglione Accordions website. There's nowhere there will you find their return and refund policy, but they do have a small statement there that they have an exchange policy. I also noticed that their Concertina page has been revamped - some Stagi concertina descriptions now have pictures of higher-end concertinas beside them instead of the actual Stagi concertinas being described. I smell something fishy about Castiglione Accordions' selling tactics... Troy

Yes, a tirade. I am one of many players here who started quite successfully on a Bastari and played it for several years. I know a number of players who play Bastari or Stagi concertinas now and are reasonably content with them. They are not toys, "IMLOs", or "Concertina-Shaped Objects" (the term that used to be used here by players with your perspective/attitude on this issue) - they are real concertinas, though not great ones. Not everyone is able to raise the funds for a vintage 56-button concertina. Yes, there is a hierarchy of concertina quality that more or less corresponds to a hierarchy of price, but that doesn't mean that the concertinas at the bottom are garbage. There are generic Chinese-made.concertinas that are cheaper and worse than the Stagi/Bastaris, but there are players here (not many, but a few) who have found even those instruments to be satisfactory for a starting player. Geoff, you are entitled to your perspective, but please don't present it as the only valid point of view. Many of us see things differently. I remember when I was a young boy, a little more than 20 years ago, I was able to get my parents to buy me a harmonica. But we were not well-to-do even during those times (my father was a insurance clerk and my mother taught at three different schools to make ends meet), so what I got was a Hero (re-branded Swan) Chinese harmonica. I did not even know at the time that it was a diatonic unisonoric tremolo harmonica, and the note that each hole make - I have to figure out by ear using the piano at my school. Well, that harmonica, I've dropped a few times, I've submerged in water a few times, and my uncle played it a few times in between cigarette drags (I remember, he was blowing smoke through the harmonica!) And guess what, that harmonica is still alive and well, and it can still play. I brought it with me when we moved to Canada from our old country. A small memento of my childhood. Troy