Saltarelle(?) Anglo G/c 30b

[Henk van Aalten]

On an e-auction I came across this concertina:

 

 

From the photo the word Saltarelle can be seen. Is this really a Saltarelle of maybe a Stagi. In my eyes it looks a little bit more serious than a Stagi (but maybe I am wrong).

 

Can anyone of you tell me more about this concertina?

[Chris Timson]

Looks to me a lot like Stagi model W-15-S. Here it is in their catalogue. My guess is it's a bit of badge engineering, but I agree this model looks a lot nicer than the one Hohner chose, the W-15. The model numbers suggest to me that the W-15-S is basically the same as the W-15, but with a better finish.

 

Chris

 

Edit: the link doesn't quite work as shown, you will arrive at their catalogue, then click on the number 5 on the left hand menu.

Edited December 23, 2004 by Chris Timson

[bill_mchale]

Looks an awful lot like a Stagi to me. Last I checked Saltarelle didn't make instruments; rather they had others make instrumetns to their specifications; at least that was true with their Irish Accordions. I think it is likely that if they have gotten into the concertina biz that they will operate the same way. Unfortunately I can't imagine them finding a builder who would make hybrids for them so they are likely to be either Stagis or made in a manner that is similar to Stagis.

 

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Bill

[bill_mchale]

Looks to me a lot like Stagi model W-15-S. Here it is in their catalogue. My guess is it's a bit of badge engineering, but I agree this model looks a lot nicer than the one Hohner chose, the W-15. The model numbers suggest to me that the W-15-S is basically the same as the W-15, but with a better finish.

Still if a company like Saltarelle is going to market Stagi Concertinas under their own name they could have at least chosen the W-15-LN as it is my understanding that that is easily Stagi's Best model. Its a pity really Saltrelle Accordions are well regarded (I own a Tara myself and enjoy playing it quite alot), marketing Stagis to Concertina Players can only hurt their rep.

 

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Bill

[Stephen Chambers]

Last I checked Saltarelle didn't make instruments; rather they had others make instrumetns to their specifications; at least that was true with their Irish Accordions.

Many of the older Saltarelle accordions (the ones that established their reputation) were made by Serenellini, but for maybe 15 years now the diatonic accordions have been made by Dino Baffetti and the French-model chromatics are built by Mengascini (who make quite a speciality of that style). The concertinas are indeed badge-engineered Stagis.

[Helen]

Hi Stephen,

 

What does badge engineered mean?

 

Thanks,

Helen

[Stephen Chambers]

Hi Stephen,

 

What does badge engineered mean?

Hi Helen,

 

That was a cross-reference to the "Wallis (and Gromit?), I don't know what I got" thread, where Chris Timson and I have been going on about that, as we do . . .

 

What does "badge-engineered" mean?

Badge-engineering . . . means one company making . . . for another company, who then sold [the item] under their own brand. It's a useful term for something that happened all the time with 19th c concertinas.

[bill_mchale]

Actually, almost but not quite. Badge engineering is something of a duragatory term. I am not sure exactly when the term was coined but it was applied extensively to the auto industry in the 1980s and early 90s when the Big three would take essentially identical cars, stick a new grill, perhaps a new interior in them and a new badge and sell them as higher level models.

 

The practice of one company making a product for another company is not necessarily badge engineering; the manufacturer can be an OEM which means Original Engineer Manufacturer which means they take a design created by the first company and manufacture it for them or they can be an ODM or Original Design Manufacturer which means they receive specs from the first company and then design a product to meet those specs. Serenellini and Dino Baffeti essentially fill those roles for Saltarelle. The concertina alas is Badge Engineered; its simply one of Stagi's regular concertinas with cosmetic changes and then sold as a Saltarelle.

 

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Bill

[Chris Timson]

The practice of one company making a product for another company is not necessarily badge engineering;

Not going to get into a long debate about this. Your historical description is interesting, and undoubtedly correct. My usage of badge engineering, which is common in the computing world, excludes OEM because it refers to one company making complete kit for another, who then sell it under their own name. That is, they put their own badge on it. That's what makes so good a description of what Stagi do and Lachenal used to do.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[Michael Reid]

... the manufacturer can be an OEM which means Original Engineer Manufacturer which means they take a design created by the first company and manufacture it for them ...

As I've heard it, OEM stands for "Original equipment manufacturer."

 

This, however, is a very slippery term. If you use Google's Define feature (on the Google Web search page, type "define:OEM" without the quotation marks), you'll find that different sources define OEM in ways that are very nearly opposite. Some say the OEM is the company that produces the goods; others say the OEM is the vendor of goods produced by others.

 

And returning (sort of) to the topic, some define OEM as equivalent to badge engineering. This makes sense to me. I wouldn't hesitate to say that Stagi is the OEM of Saltarelle concertinas.

[Jeff H]

OEM ( original equipment manufacturer) was a term originated in the auto industry ( I was there for 25 years including positions as a factory field rep for the best engineered car in the world and other high line euro plus Japanese makers)

 

Simple example.. you have a Ford... you go to a parts house to buy spark plugs

they will ask if you want OEM which could be FOMOCO/Autolite or "aftermarket" which could be Champion or NGK or any thing else not orignally fitted to the vehicle

 

Badge engineering is not necessarily derrogatory... example : there were Dodge and Plymouth vehicles that were made by Mitsubishi and were identical to the Mitsubishi vehicle with the exception of the "badge"

 

Original Chevrolet LUV trucks were made by Isuzu

 

In some cases there were specification differences but minor.

 

It is common with GM to have the same chassis and drive train but thicker carpets and more photographed wood grain burl and plastic chrome and call it a Cadillac and charge a disproportionately higher price

 

As to Saltarelle.. which meens butterfly.. I have seen this on accordions and concertinas before the new George Roux SALTARELLE outfit..

now here is a case of specifying components and quality (or lack thereof) and subletting this to makers and having them "badge" your product..

SALTARELLE was originally produced by Serrenellini who still make a few similar models to the current SALTARELLE lineup... they also used Menghini and Dino Baffetti and Mengascini.. essentially whoever was cheapest....there are rumors that SALTARELLE used Castagnari in the very beginning...I know of only one such instrument..

 

So OEM means only the original equipment used in a prodcut

put to accordion terms.. the OEM reed for Castagnari is Antonelli

 

Badge engineering means building something for someone else (even your own company) with specifications on demand...

 

IE the new Paolo Soprani now being offered...

 

As to the Saltarelle concertina I have no clue but were I to buy that quality of instrument I would buy it with the actual makers name on it.. then you know what you have

 

Jeff

[Chris Timson]

Coo-er!

 

Chris

 

Edited to add smiley. Actually, I'm impressed. You learn ever such a lot here.

Edited December 24, 2004 by Chris Timson

[Helen]

Thanks all, my question has been answered.

 

Helen