2manyhobbies Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 so im looking for a good beginnerish english concertina. i have been looking at the Jackie and like what i am reading but the 30 button set up looks a little weird (note that i am new and probably dont know what im talking about). i also am looking at a used possibly a lil beat up Lachenal 48 and i just want to know if it would be worth the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB-R Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Although the Jackie button layout may look odd, everything is in the same place as it would be on a 48, it's just that some of the high notes and duplicated notes, (ie G# and Ab) that are missing. My girlfriend started from scratch on a Jackie, played it for six months and made lots of good progress, then knew she was ready to get a nice 48 key Lachenal, from Chris Algar (who else) and "hasn't looked back." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saguaro_squeezer Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I started with a used Jack (baritone) because I didn't know if I would continue. The bug has obvousley bitten me. But I'm an old music major so practicing scales is part and parcel with my regimen. I wanted a 48key to understand the hand to hand fingering. In the end, I've got 3 boxes but starting with the Concertina Connection one was a good choice for me. Deal with a reputable dealer (Button Box, Concertina Connection, Homewood) and you won't go wrong. My experience as a newcommer. Yours, of course, may vary! Enjoy the journey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2manyhobbies Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 ok well thats all good to know and i thank yall. im peally lookin forward to learning how to play, mostly learning because i am tired of learning instruments but how to read music for them. this seems a little more straight forward as far as reading goes. Also my dad is English and i kinda like the thought of playing a folk instrument from the homeland haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeeclipper Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 There is no instrument more music-reading friendly than the EC - my Wheatstone virtually taught me to read music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 ok well thats all good to know and i thank yall. im peally lookin forward to learning how to play, mostly learning because i am tired of learning instruments but how to read music for them. this seems a little more straight forward as far as reading goes. Also my dad is English and i kinda like the thought of playing a folk instrument from the homeland haha. Depends on what you mean saying "versatile". 30 button Anglo is very easy to read with too. Virtually all concertinas are easy to read music with, it's one of concertina's shticks. If you want to learn harmony, with all inversions, major and minor, Jackie is no good for you, you need 48 buttons + and you need good quality, because those high notes on a lesser instrument are useless. So perhaps Stagi may not be so bad a choice. If you want to read melody, can't beat Jackie, if you're on budget. Another concertina's caveat is the voice. Just as 2 reed accordion fits in any music, 1 voice concertina doesn't. Obviously you can't play cajun or tango satisfactory with concertina. It's great for two parts classical though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeeclipper Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Obviously you can't play cajun or tango satisfactory with concertina. Who says? Just someone who can't even spell "satisfactorily." Scottish musician Wendy Stewart has some fine EC cajun music on her CDs, although the clarseach is her primary instrument. I enjoy playing tangos on the EC (as duets with a clarinet-playing neighbor). The treble EC, with all line notes on the left side and all space notes on the right, makes reading music extremely easy. I don't believe the anglo has this very useful feature. Edited August 23, 2009 by yankeeclipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Stout Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Another concertina's caveat is the voice. Just as 2 reed accordion fits in any music, 1 voice concertina doesn't. Obviously you can't play cajun or tango satisfactory with concertina. It's great for two parts classical though. One of the things I like about concertinas is that they do not have two reeds tuned a bit off each other the way two reed accordions do. For many kinds of music the resulting accordion sound strikes me as sloppy and out of place. I suppose that depends a bit on how wet the tuning is and how pure you want the tone in your playing. Certainly the cajun and norteño sounds seem to call for multiple reeds. I certainly wouldn't say that it fits "any music" though I also wouldn't make that claim for the purer tone of the concertina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdormire Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 [Who says? Just someone who can't even spell "satisfactorily." Hey, American English is the boy's fourth or fifth language and for the most part he is far more literate in it then most of our public school graduates, not to mention several university graduates as well. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 [Who says? Just someone who can't even spell "satisfactorily." Hey, American English is the boy's fourth or fifth language and for the most part he is far more literate in it then most of our public school graduates, not to mention several university graduates as well. Alan I'm with you Alan. I've never had a difakalti unerstanin M. He's sumer tymes moar elekant dan me. The last time I looked satisfactory is spelt korektlee. Hopefully the next Engrish lesson will be in the difference between an adjective and an adverb and their correct usage in a sentence. Besides Spelling Isn't Improtant Aoccdrnig to rsheerach at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig! Tanks Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saguaro_squeezer Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 No, please don't sink to if u cn red ths thn u cn gt a gud job ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Thanks everybody for line of defense. I looked the word "satisfactory" up before bringing it, and "satisfactorily" was picked up as incorrect. As for american dudes who teach me English: the only difference between us is the ease of verbal usage and muscle toning of our tongues, specifying certain accents (and incorporating breathing etc.). I was always dismayed by the fact that most americans burn their burgers on the open fire, when barbecue grill's instructions clearly explain correct procedure - it's a lesson of our daily routines NOT following some logistics, language including. Anyways, accordion doesn't have to have wet tuning to be accordion. The main reason for multiple reeds is the power of a sound. Octave tuning helps with high reeds. Double voice dry tune creates the volume and depth of sound, and obviously very wide spread of accordion testifies that it's tone qualities are desirable. The ingenuity of accordion is such, that cheaper made instrument is capable of more than it's humble build quality would suggest. The opposite is true for concertina, for it to be truly versatile it needs to be of very high quality. Lots was said about high reeds quirkiness and low reeds slowness, lack of air in the small bellows, loudness of tone from high level instruments etc. Concertina is difficult instrument. It's easy to read with (one of reasons I'm sticking with it), but it's hard to master. There are very few examples of small concertina's use outside of Irish/English or Classical genres. Even fewer of those examples justify the use of concertina per se. Most of tango players use other kind of concertina, isn't it? And I would be highly doubtful of the usefulness of EC in Cajun. I'd like to hear those clips. I actually heard one, and also some jazzy improv - so-so. Weak voice and no match for blaring guitars and contrabass. So to a new beginner I'd say: think before you buy. Concertina may not be what you think it is. And I'd repeat someone else's advice: do some listening. With all this wisdom I'll probably go and eat a lemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Irishman Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 So to a new beginner I'd say: think before you buy. Concertina may not be what you think it is. And I'd repeat someone else's advice: do some listening. With all this wisdom I'll probably go and eat a lemon. Misha, Give me half of that lemon ... As the saying goes, "To someone who only has a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." However, some problems are actually screws, and should be left to someone who owns only a screwdriver. Possible free-reed application: EC = hammer, classical tune = nail; Bandoneon = screwdriver, tango = screw. Not all musical jobs can be done well with your favourite concertina model! Choose a concertina type (or something quite different) to suit your favourite music. Cheers, John PS. (The) only really Russian thing I notice about about your English is that you often leave out (the) definite aricle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeeclipper Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) Thanks everybody for line of defense.I looked the word "satisfactory" up before bringing it, and "satisfactorily" was picked up as incorrect. There are very few examples of small concertina's use outside of Irish/English or Classical genres...So to a new beginner I'd say: think before you buy. Concertina may not be what you think it is. Such a reaction against an offhand, tongue-in-cheek jibe! It is always easier to defend an error than to correct it. But all this brouhaha misses the point. The English concertina has the range and flexibility of the violin, and like the fiddle, can be fun to play in many genres - ragtime, klezmer, Eastern European, bluegrass, tango, to name just a few. Putting a little box around it and advising a newbie that the EC is confined to "Irish/English or Classical genres" is just plain wrong. We should be encouraging new concertina players to go beyond such imaginary limitations and explore the joys of many forms of music. Edited August 24, 2009 by yankeeclipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB-R Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Thanks everybody for line of defense.I looked the word "satisfactory" up before bringing it, and "satisfactorily" was picked up as incorrect. There are very few examples of small concertina's use outside of Irish/English or Classical genres...So to a new beginner I'd say: think before you buy. Concertina may not be what you think it is. Such a reaction against an offhand, tongue-in-cheek jibe! It is always easier to defend an error than to correct it. But all this brouhaha misses the point. The English concertina has the range and flexibility of the violin, and like the fiddle, can be fun to play in many genres - ragtime, klezmer, Eastern European, bluegrass, tango, to name just a few. Putting a little box around it and advising a newbie that the EC is confined to "Irish/English or Classical genres" is just plain wrong. We should be encouraging new concertina players to go beyond such imaginary limitations and explore the joys of many forms of music. By accident or design our friend M3838 tends to generate controversy. Up to you how much notice you wish to take, (or give.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 The English concertina has the range and flexibility of the violin Only true for 48 buttons, and the point I made earlier is exactly that: for true versatility a player needs 48 buttons or more. Jackie will not fall under the cathegory. So Stagi may fit better. Or some entry level Lachenal with brass reeds. , and like the fiddle, can be fun to play in many genres - ragtime, klezmer, Eastern European, bluegrass, tango, to name just a few. May be fun? Why "may be"? Of course it's fun, but the question is not whether one can have fun, but rather possibility of joining the ranks. Violin has exceptional ability for true tone and modulations and established school of playing. Concertina is unusual new mechanical instrument, with no school to speak of, no habit of been seen on stage. Definitely Klezmer, bluegrass, tago and ragtime are not written or designed with concertina in mind. Especially Klezmer, eastern european and bluegrass, where bending is so common. We should be encouraging new concertina players to go beyond such imaginary limitations and explore the joys of many forms of music. The only way of such an encouragement is to provide examples of those forms, played on concertina. Otherwise it's just words that will lead to discouragement. I'll take you on: please provide few examples of solid concertina playing in tango, klezmer, Eastern European and Bluegrass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 By accident or design our friend M3838 tends to generate controversy. Up to you how much notice you wish to take, (or give.) By now you should be aware that I don't take slaps on the face. Don't provoke me with such (above) condescending remarks. Perhaps I'm a little too sharp for some, who mistakes my notes for been "controversial". Perhaps you are in favor of international forum, that tends to generate banality. Back to comparing versatility of 30 button Jackie vs. 48 button instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Here's ragtime for you Another one (with lots of fake notes and short cuts. The motto: Let's go cringing) Tango It was great to find these clips, esp. the last one, but none of them "widens" application of concertina. Yet. It's more of novelty acts, like this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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