Choose yout tuning?

[david_boveri]

It's common on accordions to have multiple reed banks to allow different voicings (which is possibly what the wikipedia article really meant) so there's no reason why this shouldn't be adapted to play in different keys.

 

i dont believe that it really meant that. if you look at the article, it goes to an indepth discussion of all the different types of voicings and how they are accomplished, and only has that one line on tunings. the main article for accordion has a similar reference, and as i recall it says that extra tune banks are added/used for alternate tunings, in addition to the normal process of using alternate tune banks for different voicings.

[Anglo-Irishman]

It's common on accordions to have multiple reed banks to allow different voicings (which is possibly what the wikipedia article really meant) so there's no reason why this shouldn't be adapted to play in different keys.

 

i dont believe that it really meant that. if you look at the article, it goes to an indepth discussion of all the different types of voicings and how they are accomplished, and only has that one line on tunings. the main article for accordion has a similar reference, and as i recall it says that extra tune banks are added/used for alternate tunings, in addition to the normal process of using alternate tune banks for different voicings.

 

As I understand multiple-reed instruments, "tuning" refers to the amount of off-tuning of the reeds for a given note, as in "dry tuning" (strict octave) "wet tuning" (tuned slightly off the unison or octave to give a beat) or "musette tuning" (heavier off-tuning to give a pronounced beat or even tremulant). When you switch to a different tuning, the A button still produces an A note, just with a different character.

 

With guitars and other stringed isntruments, "tuning" refers to the notes that the individual strings are tuned to, as in "EADGBE tuning" or "DADEAE tuning." When you change the tuning, you get a different note when you stop the same string at the same fret.

Isn't Anglo parlance similar? We have "C/G tuning" or "G/D tuning", indicating the root notes of the main rows (analogous to the notes on the open strings of the guitar).

 

I don't know about accordions, but in general terms, "voicing" applies to chords. C-E-G and E-G-C are different voicings of the C-major chord, for instance. Or C-e-g, with the e and g more than an octave above the C, would be another voicing of C-major. With concertinas, guitars, pianos, harps, etc., voicing is done by the player. In autoharp circles, voicing is what you do when cutting the felt for one of the instrument's ready-made chords (though the player can still decide which inversion of the chord to play).

 

A lot of confusion arises from different "trades" using the same word for different things - not only musicians. Ask a sailor and a motor mechanic what a "gasket" is

 

Cheers,

John

[david_boveri]

It's common on accordions to have multiple reed banks to allow different voicings (which is possibly what the wikipedia article really meant) so there's no reason why this shouldn't be adapted to play in different keys.

 

i dont believe that it really meant that. if you look at the article, it goes to an indepth discussion of all the different types of voicings and how they are accomplished, and only has that one line on tunings. the main article for accordion has a similar reference, and as i recall it says that extra tune banks are added/used for alternate tunings, in addition to the normal process of using alternate tune banks for different voicings.

 

As I understand multiple-reed instruments, "tuning" refers to the amount of off-tuning of the reeds for a given note, as in "dry tuning" (strict octave) "wet tuning" (tuned slightly off the unison or octave to give a beat) or "musette tuning" (heavier off-tuning to give a pronounced beat or even tremulant). When you switch to a different tuning, the A button still produces an A note, just with a different character.

 

With guitars and other stringed isntruments, "tuning" refers to the notes that the individual strings are tuned to, as in "EADGBE tuning" or "DADEAE tuning." When you change the tuning, you get a different note when you stop the same string at the same fret.

Isn't Anglo parlance similar? We have "C/G tuning" or "G/D tuning", indicating the root notes of the main rows (analogous to the notes on the open strings of the guitar).

 

I don't know about accordions, but in general terms, "voicing" applies to chords. C-E-G and E-G-C are different voicings of the C-major chord, for instance. Or C-e-g, with the e and g more than an octave above the C, would be another voicing of C-major. With concertinas, guitars, pianos, harps, etc., voicing is done by the player. In autoharp circles, voicing is what you do when cutting the felt for one of the instrument's ready-made chords (though the player can still decide which inversion of the chord to play).

 

A lot of confusion arises from different "trades" using the same word for different things - not only musicians. Ask a sailor and a motor mechanic what a "gasket" is

 

Cheers,

John

 

you might be right about that, but they differentiate between using the reed banks to alter voicings and using the reedbanks to alter tuning. they might be using the wrong word. this is why i could not find anything about the kind of accordion i saw john williams play, because i dont know what words to use!

 

i just find it hard to believe they are saying that on the same instrument, you can go through all sorts of different voicings, and THEN affect the "tuning" (as in make it more "wet" or "dry"), all on the same instrument. tuning meaning transposing makes more sense in the context of the article, but you are right in that the word tuning is used to describe what "wet" vs. "dry".

[Anglo-Irishman]

i just find it hard to believe they are saying that on the same instrument, you can go through all sorts of different voicings, and THEN affect the "tuning" (as in make it more "wet" or "dry"), all on the same instrument. tuning meaning transposing makes more sense in the context of the article, but you are right in that the word tuning is used to describe what "wet" vs. "dry".

Well, on the Russian bayan, you can switch between wet, dry, musette and various other "effects" ("tunings"?) like on a PA, and you can also operate a switch to change the bass side from the usual one-chord-per-button mode to one-note-per-button mode, analogous to the descant side (making it similar to a duet concertina )

 

I suppose you might regard this process as "changing the voicing" of the bass buttons. Obviously, different reed banks will have to be switched in to achieve this.

 

My accordionist friends tell me that transposing is relatively easy on the 5-row chromatic button accordions, so "mechanical" transposition would really only make sense on a diatonic.

 

Cheers,

John

[david_boveri]

i just find it hard to believe they are saying that on the same instrument, you can go through all sorts of different voicings, and THEN affect the "tuning" (as in make it more "wet" or "dry"), all on the same instrument. tuning meaning transposing makes more sense in the context of the article, but you are right in that the word tuning is used to describe what "wet" vs. "dry".

Well, on the Russian bayan, you can switch between wet, dry, musette and various other "effects" ("tunings"?) like on a PA, and you can also operate a switch to change the bass side from the usual one-chord-per-button mode to one-note-per-button mode, analogous to the descant side (making it similar to a duet concertina )

 

I suppose you might regard this process as "changing the voicing" of the bass buttons. Obviously, different reed banks will have to be switched in to achieve this.

 

My accordionist friends tell me that transposing is relatively easy on the 5-row chromatic button accordions, so "mechanical" transposition would really only make sense on a diatonic.

 

Cheers,

John

 

yeah... this whole transposing thing is annoying on diatonic instruments! i'm getting better at it on the anglo, but if i had a hayden duet i wouldnt even need to think about it.

[m3838]

My thanks to all who have replied, especially david boveri.

 

It's all fascinating.

 

Try retuning a piano or church organ.

And I actually did change tuning on 20 button Anglo, making it fully chromatic. I disagree that for accordion reeded instruments it's done easier. It depends. But Concertina is a FIXED tuning instrument. What can you do?

[hjcjones]

standard tuning is used by EddieWalker,John James,ARTY MCGLYNN[Dropd].DENIS CAHILL,willie johnson,chris newman,pat egan,tomny byrne marc clements art massie.

DaveBurland,now uses it ,as well as dadgad.

it is very useful,of course it gives contrast in an evenings performance if you can use both.

alternative tunings are not mandatory for english folk guitar style.

Dick, I'm ashamed to admit that I'm not familiar with some the names you've mentioned, but those I do know I wouldn't describe as playing "English" folk guitar style. By this, I had in mind the style pioneered by Martin Carthy, Nic Jones and others, and since taken up very widely. This style largely depends on open tunings to get a particular sound. That's not to say it's mandatory (and I did qualify that term) and certainly standard tuning has its place. Most guitarists use a number of tunings, including standard. The tunings are often chosen to facilitate a particular style, although occasionally a player might adapt a tuning to overcome a difficulty in playing a particular piece of music

 

Bringing this back to the topic, the difference (as Dick is aware) is that with guitar an open string gives a different quality of sound from the same note played on a stopped string. Open tunings take advantage of this. Obviously it does not apply to concertinas, where all the reeds should produce a similar quality of sound.

 

The other advantage of open guitar tunings is that they may (although not always) simplify the fingering - while that might sometimes be welcome on a concertina, it probably does not arise often enough to be worth the trouble, and is probably related to a specific piece, rather than an overall style of playing.

[Hooves]

i read the previous statements, and i know you were responding to them. i was saying that it is not just a string instrument thing, and certainly not just a fretted instrument thing. when i said retuned, i meant that you could press buttons/levers to retune without altering the reeds, i did not elaborate on this because i had mentioned it in my previous post, but this omission was an error on my part, as out of context it seems that i am making a random comment that does not contribute. i assure you that i did read the thread, and knew the context of your comment, but must say that my post did not reflect this.

 

so, unless i am misunderstanding you: yes, i am saying that accordions exist which can re-arrange the note layout at will.

 

these threads do get long, its easy to unintentionally mis-quote, thanks for acknowleding this.

 

As to the Stops, its not quite the same but I can see that one could argue that it constitutes re-arrangement.

 

My last ever comment on this topic:

 

Its almost always anglo players who want to re-arrange the notes, when I was learning on the Anglo I felt the same way and asked the same questions.

 

 

My observation over 3 years:

 

Anglo players : want to change the note layout

Duet players : want more buttons or bigger bellows

English players : complain the least

 

perhaps there is a reason

 

as for me I'm off to find a Duet forum.