Can you help me identify this anglo?

[tzirtzi]

I bought an old anglo off ebay. It was a risk, as the description was minimal - a risk that, sadly, has definitely not paid off. Thus I am going to resell it (although, I suspect, for less than I paid for it). However, I'd like the next buyer in the chain to be better informed than I was, so, having dis- an re-assembled it (one end was on upsidedown...), I'm trying to work what keys it is in. The problem is, I know next to nothing about anglos and so don't know what notes the buttons are supposed to play - made harder to work out by the fact that some of them are obviously hideously out of tune, and there is nothing written inside it that might give me a clue.

 

Here is, as far as I can tell, are the notes played by each button on the LHS. I guessed the top row might be in B major? The bottom row... I've no idea. Doesn't look like any key to me - which could be a matter of some notes being too out of tune to tell what they were meant to be. Could anyone shine light on the problem for me?

 

 

Given that my understanding is that the LHS of an anglo should be lower than the RHS, I suspect the ends may also have been fixed on the wrong ways around.

Edited April 30, 2009 by tzirtzi

[drbones]

Hello tzirtzi,

Unless you truly have a left hand anglo concertina, the right side will have 1 more button than the left for letting air in and out without sound. This button should be located near your thumb as you hold it. It's possible the boards holding the reeds have been switched causing your problem while the end caps and action boards have not. I believe it depends on what type of box it is whether this is possible or not. Is there a manufacturer name or country of origin on it anywhere? A picture speaks a thousand words.

[tzirtzi]

Well, the air button is indeed on the RHS, and having reexamined it, I think I just drew my diagram backwards . So the above diagram for the left is actually for the right.

 

I'll just take some photos and upload them...

[tzirtzi]

Here are some photos:

 

 

In case it's not legible, the logo says "National Band" and "Made in Germany".

[Bill N]

Well, the air button is indeed on the RHS, and having reexamined it, I think I just drew my diagram backwards . So the above diagram for the left is actually for the right.

 

In that case, I think you have an out of tune G/D concertina. On mine, those rows go like this:

 

G/F# B/A , D/C , G/E , B/F#

 

D/C# , F#/E , A/G , D/B , F#/C#

[tzirtzi]

In that case, I think you have an out of tune G/D concertina. On mine, those rows go like this:

 

G/F# B/A , D/C , G/E , B/F#

 

D/C# , F#/E , A/G , D/B , F#/C#

 

That sounds like it makes sense! Thanks. Means that it's even more out of tune than I imagined, though...

Edited April 30, 2009 by tzirtzi

[Bill N]

In that case, I think you have an out of tune G/D concertina. On mine, those rows go like this:

 

G/F# B/A , D/C , G/E , B/F#

 

D/C# , F#/E , A/G , D/B , F#/C#

 

That sounds like it makes sense! Thanks. Means that it's even more out of tune than I imagined, though...

 

 

It's not so bad. You're pretty close except for that 3rd button on the 1st row!

Your left hand should look like this:

 

G/D, D/F#, G/A, B/C, D/E

 

F#/A, A/C#, D/E, F#/G, A/B

 

I bought a German G/D at a flea market, and it had a number of flat reeds as well, but it's double reeded, so it just adds to the tremolo effect!

[tzirtzi]

Thankyou again! So the whole layout (colour coded - blue means flat) looks like this:

 

 

As opposed to the normal G/D layout (ignoring the top line):

 

 

I've read that reeds can be tuned by filing them carefully to change their shape. Is this a practical/safe thing to do or is it likely to destroy them? The inside of the concertina looks like this:

 

 

So it's got accordion reeds mounted unlike a normal concertina.

Edited May 1, 2009 by tzirtzi

[Bill N]

I've read that reeds can be tuned by filing them carefully to change their shape. Is this a practical/safe thing to do or is it likely to destroy them? The inside of the concertina looks like this:

 

 

So it's got accordion reeds mounted unlike a normal concertina.

 

I'll let others advise you on technique, but yes, you can raise the pitch by filing away a small amount of metal (but not really changing the shape of the reed) or lower the pitch by adding a small blob of solder. If you didn't pay too much, are happy with the action, and the bellows and valves seem OK this might be a good box to learn how to tune on. Alternately, if you have a local accordion technician, this wouldn't be too big a job.

 

The accordion style reeds are usual for a German concertina.

[tzirtzi]

Sounds feasible... but I'll go away and do some more research before deciding whether to have a go. Thanks again for your help

[Anglo-Irishman]

I've read that reeds can be tuned by filing them carefully to change their shape. Is this a practical/safe thing to do or is it likely to destroy them? The inside of the concertina looks like this:

 

 

So it's got accordion reeds mounted unlike a normal concertina.

 

(snip)

 

The accordion style reeds are usual for a German concertina.

 

Hm! I thought accordion reeds were always in pairs in one shoe. The ones in the picture are typical German concertina (or Bandoneon) style, with all the reeds for several buttons on one large plate.

 

Cheers,

John

[tzirtzi]

Hm! I thought accordion reeds were always in pairs in one shoe. The ones in the picture are typical German concertina (or Bandoneon) style, with all the reeds for several buttons on one large plate.

 

Cheers,

John

 

Interesting - having googled pictures, it does indeed look similar to the insides of a bandoneon.

 

Still haven't decided whether to have a go or to sell it.. Could anyone advise me what a reasonable price to expect might be, untuned vs. tuned? I realise that it won't be going for much either way.

[TomB-R]

As I understand it, several reeds on one plate like that are entirely normal for German concertinas, (not actually an "Anglo" of course!) and also for harmonicas! (OK bandoneons too, but how many of those do we actually meet round here.)

 

Tuning is no big deal, lots of advice here, and over at (dare I say it, ) www.melodeon.net.

It's easier to flatten the pitch of a reed than to raise it. File near the base of the reed to flatten, and near the tip to sharpen (whilst supporting it with a thin shim of metal between the reed and plate. Kitchen snippers cut up aluminium beer cans fine for the shim!)

 

I've got one of these to refurbish when I get round to it. My plan was to put it into tune with itself without worrying too much about absolute pitch. It's a cute little thing and would just be nice to have around the place.

 

A search for concertina in Musical Instruments then ticking the box for Completed listings on Ebay should give a fair idea of value. (You have to be signed in.)

 

One here

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/National-Band-Concer...%3A1%7C294%3A50

 

Tom

Edited May 4, 2009 by TomB-R

[tzirtzi]

Thanks The one you've linked to is in fact this one - I was the buyer - but I hadn't realised that you can search old listings, which is very useful. A search there suggests that £40-£60 is about what one should pay for one of these in good, working order - considerably less if it needs significant work - so I think I will indeed have a go at tuning.

 

Lots of what I've read about tuning talks about making a test bellows - am I right in thinking that the purpose of this is to speed up the process, so that you don't have to put the concertina back together every time you adjust it to see what it sounds like? In which case, this time at least I'll do without - I have no spare bellows lying around... Or is there some more necessary purpose for a test bellows?

 

I'll see if my guitar-playing friend will lend me his little tuning gadget to aid tuning to conventional pitch...

[Peter]

I own an example similar to your instrument (which I thought was actually concertina reeded on ebay, ah well - Caveat Emptor )

The major difference between your instrument and mine is that the bank of reeds is mounted parallel to the reed plate in a more concertina-like style.

 

I'll post some images tomorrow.

 

*Edited because I can't spell :s

Edited May 5, 2009 by Peter

[tzirtzi]

(which I thought was actually concertina reeded on ebay, ah well - Caveat Emptor )

 

Yeah... This does often seem to be the way of ebay - when I bought this I'd been hoping for something in rather better condition based on the description. Leave lukewarm feedback and move on...

 

The major difference between your instrument and mine is that the bank of reeds is mounted parallel to the reed plate in a more concertina-like style.

I'll post some images tomorrow.

 

I look forward to seeing those

[Peter]

My german almost-tina

(click for a larger image)

Edited May 5, 2009 by Peter

[Bill N]

Thanks - so I think I will indeed have a go at tuning.

 

I'll see if my guitar-playing friend will lend me his little tuning gadget to aid tuning to conventional pitch...

 

Here's a picture from my similarly reeded square German concertina c. 1875-1880. You can see where some of the reeds have been filed to tune them.