Left hand

[Queen Lud]

I am doing OK with playing concertina with my right hand; am learning the notes and can go relatively fast now if needed but how do I learn what to do with my left hand? I am currently playing two or three notes on my left hand in the same rhythm as the tune but it sounds somewhat droney and not as lively as I would like. I have read the posts here on vamping but am none the wiser. Is it all trial and error?

 

Help!

[pete]

I'm in a similar boat! You will probably know of these already, but just in case:

 

I found this clip on youtube was useful to get some idea of where to start (thanks Liam):

 

I also found Peter's guide at http://petertrimming.webs.com/teachyourselfanglo.htm very helpful as it includes something to do with your left hand as well as the linked sound files (thanks Peter).

 

I have been messing around finding fingerings for other chords so that I can alter what I'm playing with my left hand. I'm all a bit oom pah at the moment, but it's better than being silent - to my ears, at least!

 

Pete

[bill_mchale]

I am doing OK with playing concertina with my right hand; am learning the notes and can go relatively fast now if needed but how do I learn what to do with my left hand? I am currently playing two or three notes on my left hand in the same rhythm as the tune but it sounds somewhat droney and not as lively as I would like. I have read the posts here on vamping but am none the wiser. Is it all trial and error?

 

Help!

 

I think it might help if you tell us a little bit more about what you play... I.e., Anglo, Duet? Also what style of play you are going for. I can be pretty sure you are not playing Irish music, simply because Irish style playing relies pretty heavily on the left hand for Melody... but then again I might be wrong .

 

--

Bill

[Queen Lud]

I think it might help if you tell us a little bit more about what you play... I.e., Anglo, Duet? Also what style of play you are going for. I can be pretty sure you are not playing Irish music, simply because Irish style playing relies pretty heavily on the left hand for Melody... but then again I might be wrong .

 

Yes, of course. Pretty important omission there!

I am playing an Anglo concertina and at the moment, as I have only been playing for under 3 weeks, I am playing a range of simple tunes. Examples are the Shepherds Hey / Monks March / Constant Billy Morris tunes plus Wi a hundred Pipers Scots tune; a truly horrendous version of Jerusalem (pity my poor neighbours - I live in a block of flats); and a rather seasonally inappropriate O come All ye faithful

[bill_mchale]

I think it might help if you tell us a little bit more about what you play... I.e., Anglo, Duet? Also what style of play you are going for. I can be pretty sure you are not playing Irish music, simply because Irish style playing relies pretty heavily on the left hand for Melody... but then again I might be wrong .

 

Yes, of course. Pretty important omission there!

I am playing an Anglo concertina and at the moment, as I have only been playing for under 3 weeks, I am playing a range of simple tunes. Examples are the Shepherds Hey / Monks March / Constant Billy Morris tunes plus Wi a hundred Pipers Scots tune; a truly horrendous version of Jerusalem (pity my poor neighbours - I live in a block of flats); and a rather seasonally inappropriate O come All ye faithful

 

Just a thought, but at 3 weeks, I wouldn't worry too much about chords just yet. My own thoughts on the matter is that playing melody can be challenging enough at first. One of the toughest things about learning music is that its natural to want to learn to do everything at once.. but often isn't practical. Build up a decent repitoire of tunes and get them so that you can play them cold. After that, you can start worrying about extras like adding chords. Of course, others may well disagree with me... And of course I play almost exclusively ITM where playing is built around the melody. That being said, I was playing for a good solid year before I started trying to press more than one button at a time... in my style of Irish Playing, its only occasionally to highlight a note or phrase (And almost always octaves, not chords).

 

--

Bill

[Mikefule]

Very simply, "vamping" is playing "Oom pah" with the Oom being the bass note and the "pah" being one, two or three higher notes of the chord.

 

It does get more subtle than that later.

 

Examples on a C G box.

 

Middle row, push: C Major

Oom = low C or next C up.

Pah = E and G

 

Middle row, pull: D minor

Oom = D pull

Pah = F and A

[pete]

Just a thought, but at 3 weeks, I wouldn't worry too much about chords just yet. My own thoughts on the matter is that playing melody can be challenging enough at first. One of the toughest things about learning music is that its natural to want to learn to do everything at once.. but often isn't practical. Build up a decent repitoire of tunes and get them so that you can play them cold. After that, you can start worrying about extras like adding chords. Of course, others may well disagree with me... And of course I play almost exclusively ITM where playing is built around the melody. That being said, I was playing for a good solid year before I started trying to press more than one button at a time... in my style of Irish Playing, its only occasionally to highlight a note or phrase (And almost always octaves, not chords).

 

--

Bill

Fair comment and I hope I didn't sound as if I was presuming anything in my previous post. I guess it depends on where you are coming from. I hadn't listened to any ITM before I bought my concertina and actually took a while to work out what ITM even meant when I saw it in post! I knew little of folk or Morris tunes either, so my background for the majority of things I come across for the concertina is almost nil. I bought Bertram Levy's book and that introduces left hand accompaniment quite early, so I guess I just carried on in that way.

 

Pete

[hjcjones]

[

Just a thought, but at 3 weeks, I wouldn't worry too much about chords just yet. My own thoughts on the matter is that playing melody can be challenging enough at first. One of the toughest things about learning music is that its natural to want to learn to do everything at once.. but often isn't practical. Build up a decent repitoire of tunes and get them so that you can play them cold. After that, you can start worrying about extras like adding chords. Of course, others may well disagree with me... And of course I play almost exclusively ITM where playing is built around the melody. That being said, I was playing for a good solid year before I started trying to press more than one button at a time... in my style of Irish Playing, its only occasionally to highlight a note or phrase (And almost always octaves, not chords).

 

--

Bill

 

With respect, Bill, I disagree. I think it is better if you can learn to think of the instrument as a whole right from the start, rather than starting with one hand and then trying to add the other in later. It may add to the difficulty at first, as it gives you even more to think about, but it pays off in the long run.

 

I know several players (especially on melodeon) who started off playing just right hand melody and who are now simply unable to bring in their left hand - they just can't co-ordinate the two. Better IMHO to get both hands working together from the start.

 

For the same reason I would encourage beginners to explore alternative fingerings and cross-rowing - it's often easier to play a note by changing rows. It shouldn't be thought of as an "advanced" technique.

[bill_mchale]

With respect, Bill, I disagree. I think it is better if you can learn to think of the instrument as a whole right from the start, rather than starting with one hand and then trying to add the other in later. It may add to the difficulty at first, as it gives you even more to think about, but it pays off in the long run.

 

I know several players (especially on melodeon) who started off playing just right hand melody and who are now simply unable to bring in their left hand - they just can't co-ordinate the two. Better IMHO to get both hands working together from the start.

 

For the same reason I would encourage beginners to explore alternative fingerings and cross-rowing - it's often easier to play a note by changing rows. It shouldn't be thought of as an "advanced" technique.

 

Well I did say that others might disagree with me . I also understand your point about the melodeon.. though I have to wonder if perhaps these are people who would never have been able to co-ordinate the two? After all, diatonic accordions and concertinas do require a fair bit of coordination to get the most of them.. or even to play a basic scale. I am not sure everyone has it in them to be able to add everything together.

 

Regarding cross rowing, I agree completely. In fact, if you are going to play a tune on just the right hand side, I suspect you need to learn it very early in the process.

 

Like I also said, it might well come down to the sorts of music people play. I play ITM, so even if I never play a chord it will never be missed. Other styles of music.... well I can definitely see the point in learning to play chords early.

 

--

Bill

[Queen Lud]

On a related theme: what is the general view of 'vamping' (in relation to the concertina!)?

 

I still don't quite get it.

 

Also, when I listen to some players, I don't think they are using that technique, rather they are playing more complicated chords on the left.

 

I do feel I have got a bit stuck here. I am quite confident now with my right hand playing and feel I have made good progress in this month (picking up speed with the faster tunes and playing by 'feel' rather than having to look at my hands)

 

I am playing basic 2 note chords with my left - just whatever feels right and in rhythm but it is all a bit samey and somewhat droney.

 

I feel to progress I need some left-handed guidance.

[david_boveri]

On a related theme: what is the general view of 'vamping' (in relation to the concertina!)?

 

I still don't quite get it.

 

Also, when I listen to some players, I don't think they are using that technique, rather they are playing more complicated chords on the left.

 

I do feel I have got a bit stuck here. I am quite confident now with my right hand playing and feel I have made good progress in this month (picking up speed with the faster tunes and playing by 'feel' rather than having to look at my hands)

 

I am playing basic 2 note chords with my left - just whatever feels right and in rhythm but it is all a bit samey and somewhat droney.

 

I feel to progress I need some left-handed guidance.

 

i'm sure others will chime in with some examples.

 

where do you live? if you have a webcam, i could show you some different ways to do chording, as well as droning. i could also help you out with some of the tunes you were working on. i live in the central united states, so if you're in europe it might be harder to find time but it should still work.

[Mikefule]

A few ideas to consider.

 

The basic vamping is "oom pah" with a single note bass, and two or more notes from the chord on the off beat.

 

The next step may be to change the bass note to the third or fifth of the chord, or even an octave above the lowest root available.

 

 

X0000 Accidentals

XXX00 C row

00000 G row

 

X = a possible bass note for the chord C major.

 

If you change the bass note, you start to get bass runs.

 

The following makes a nice run.

 

00000 Acc C Maj push with C bass

X0000 C

00000 G

 

X0000 C maj push with E bass

00000

00000

 

X0000 F Maj pull with F bass

00000

00000

 

A later step is to do the "Oom" with two notes a fifth apart and then fill in the third on the "pah"

 

Another is to play "Oom oom" for a bar or two

 

Or of course, "pah pah"

 

If I play the same chord two or three times in a row, I usually change the bass. You get to learn which sequences sound best.

 

The next stage is to play alternative chords.

 

C Major is CEG

A Minor is ACE

 

F major is FAC

D minor is DFA

 

Adding these to your palette gives the music colour and variety.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Mikefule

[Queen Lud]

I think I get the theory now but still having trouble putting it in to practice. I suppose that is the key though, practice. I find I can't seem to think about two things at once, left and right, so can't really do this vamping thing! Is that a style that is used in all concertina playing or just certain styles? Is it used in Irish style of playing?

(excuse my ignorance; this is all new to me)

[Anglo-Irishman]

I suppose that is the key though, practice.

 

Ma'am,

 

Yes, you've got teh key - now open the door!

 

A (hopefully) inspiring little story:

 

Long, long ago, when the customer service employees of even large IT companies did not have workplace computers, they had regional assistance centres where the customer engineers could phone in and have a colleague - who DID have a workplace terminal - search the trouble database for them. As a young customer engineer, I was detailed to occupy this hot seat for a month at a time, in rota with people from other branch offices. There was a permanent database expert there, who instructed us detailees from the branches in the use of the online database. "At first," he said to me, "The terminal screen is this big (drawing a figure a yard square in the air with his hands). But after a week or so, it'll be this small (holding his finger and thumb half an inch apart and squinting at me between them)."

He was right.

At first, I had to search the screen for the most basic information - soon I knew just where to look for it, and was then able to find less common information, too.

 

A concertina has an awful lot of buttons at the start. Believe me, they get fewer and fewer as you play. Every day or so you learn what a new one is for, and that's one less to worry about. That's the way I - and probably a lot of others - learned to play the Anglo in the harmonised style that fully utilises the push-pull system.

 

Cheers,

John

[Mikefule]

I think I get the theory now but still having trouble putting it in to practice. I suppose that is the key though, practice. I find I can't seem to think about two things at once, left and right, so can't really do this vamping thing! Is that a style that is used in all concertina playing or just certain styles? Is it used in Irish style of playing?

(excuse my ignorance; this is all new to me)

 

The Irish style of playing is fundamentally different. It is predominately single notes. The English style relies on left hand accompaniment.

 

My strategy was to decide as a matter of policy to learn the instrument, not to learn tunes. 2 and a bit years down the line, I have a repertoire of a couple of dozen tunes (say a tune a month), but I keep revisiting the old tunes and applying my new "tricks". This means that at any given time, many of my tunes are "works in progress". However, it is really rewarding when you are playing a familiar tune and your fingers automatically follow an unexpected harmony that sounds better.

 

You need a map in your head of which buttons go with which chords, and a separate map of which basses follw each other nicely. It will come, and it is enormously exciting when it does.

[Mikefule]

Here's a nice little sequence that fits lots of English tunes. X = "oom" and xx = "pah":

 

Push C Major

00000 Acc

00Xxx C

00000 G

 

Followed by

 

Push A minor

0X0x0 Acc

00xx0 C

00000 G This is not has hard as the diagram makes it look as the rows are offset

 

Followed by

 

Pull D minor

00000 Acc

00Xxx C

00000 G

 

followed by

 

Pull G major

000x0 Acc

X0x00 C

00000 G

[Queen Lud]

Here's a nice little sequence that fits lots of English tunes. X = "oom" and xx = "pah":

 

Thanks Mikefule, I think I am finally, very slowly, starting to understand...