Mayofiddler Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 LOL, well if I have a piper on my side I know I'm with the fundamentalists :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikefule Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 A bit of a threadjack but... The comments about Noel Hill's style prompted me to look him up on Youtube and to listen and watch. I'm learning in the "English style" with chords and bass runs on the left, so it's almost like a different instrument compared to the Irish style. I hope one day I'll be 1/100 as good as Noel Hill, although I wouldn't choose to play in that style. I didn't notice him overstretching the bellows, but I did find the vibrato a bit grating on some tunes. That's personal taste, or lack of it. Amazing that the same instrument can be used in (at least) two such completely different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Johnson Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 LOL, well if I have a piper on my side I know I'm with the fundamentalists :-) And that is supposed to be a good thing? (the fundamentalist part not the piper part. Some of my best friends are pipers (and like Noel's playing )). There are plenty of well known Irish musicians whose playing I don't enjoy listening to. Some play what they consider traditional, some less so. but their level of musicianship is still worth noting, and it is not up to me to tell them how they should play. Just because I don't like their choice of style, doesn't mean my judgment has more merit than the people who do like it. I don't particularly feel Noel's playing needs any defending, but to call it awful is plain lack of respect, both for Noel and those who appreciate what he does. Dana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dunk Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I'm a dyed-in-the-wool traditional fascist fiddle player Fascist? What an odd thing to say. I'm out of here, not just the thread but the whole site. I've seen enough of fascists to last me a lifetime [/tallship] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergus_fiddler Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Agree. That wasn't a very lucky term. I myself am very found of playing fiddle in a very traditional style, and don't deny the merits of another more innovative fiddlers. I don't fancy specially the styles of Noel Hill or Niall Vallely as the styles I would like to play in, but definitely they are very good concertinists by their own right and, indeed, very good studying / listening materials. But I wolud prefer the styles of Jacqueline McCarthy or Colm Healey, because I reckon that those styles suit better my own personality and my approach / way of understanding the instrument. If Noel Hill is so renowned and famous, for sure it isn't for nothing. And on the personal side, I'm as bored with the 'djembe-session-screwers' as with the 'trad police'. Enough have of both. At the end of the day, they are two sides of the same coin. Cheers, Fer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombilly Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Fascist? What an odd thing to say. I'm out of here, not just the thread but the whole site. I've seen enough of fascists to last me a lifetime What?!! I assume you're not serious!! Mayofiddler is just engaged in that good old fashioned Irish trait of self deprecation. Slagging yourself off etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Fascist? What an odd thing to say. I'm out of here, not just the thread but the whole site. I've seen enough of fascists to last me a lifetime What?!! I assume you're not serious!! Mayofiddler is just engaged in that good old fashioned Irish trait of self deprecation. Slagging yourself off etc. I am afraid that Pete was not joking and he has left the whole site, which I consider a bad loss. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I am afraid that Pete was not joking and he has left the whole site, which I consider a bad loss. Me too. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Rogers Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Unless tallship knows something about mayofiddler that the rest of us don't, it seems like a pointless over-reaction from where I'm standing. You can't afford to that sensitive if you want to participate in online forums - this one is *incredibly* polite and civilised compared to most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayofiddler Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hi all, Yes it was definitely some self-slagging that I was indulging in! I would hardly say "Thanks you're all great" and follow that with some political tirade promoting facism. Obviously the very non-PC sense of humour over here doesn't translate to the US. If you lived in Ireland and brought that sort of PC pontification into a session (or anywhere come to that) you'd be very unpopular. Anyhow, my point was that I realise my own faults and was poking fun at myself for it. Perversely, it seems the people that are shouting for fairness don't share the same tolerance as the people whom they want to burn at the stake! To hopefully wind this thread up, my thanks once again to those who have been very helpful to me. In case you are interested, after pondering the various advice, looking at many online resources, listening to videos and sound files, I've ordered an Edgley and also a Rochelle to play whilst I'm waiting for it. There seemed no other sensible way to do it if I'm going to commit myself to this. I can see from your replies that in a few months I'm going to want to upgrade, so might as well get the order in now. In the meantime I can start getting used to the most of the fingering (the Edgley will be Jeffries and I know the Rochelle is Wheatstone so I will have to change the C# fingering eventually). In the meantime I grabbed the wife's 'tina last night and taught myself Rolling In The Ryegrass, a simple tune to kick off the adventure! Great fun, I think I'll enjoy this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikefule Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I find it incredible that anyone would take seriously a reference to being "fascist" in that context. It is a comment in line with jokes about "the grammar police": not to be taken seriously. Colloquially a fascist is anyone who acts as if he (or she) knows what is right for other people and tries to impose it on them. Real fascists are bad people. But strangely, they are too busy trying to rule the world to be bantering on the internet about the rights and wrongs of different styles of concertina playing. I for one am entirely comfortable with someone using the expression jokingly about themselves. I would be less comfortable about them using it about someone else unless I could be entirely happy that the "victim" knew it was in jest. Would you leave a pub and never come back because one person at the bar made that comment about himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayofiddler Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Sorry to bump this thread without too much reason but I wanted to say two things. 1) Thanks to those with a sense of humour who have supported me after I unintentionally started a fight(!) 2) If there is any other potential beginner reading this who plays another instrument and has learnt it by ear, and has wondered about the concertina but been put off by all those buttons - give it a go. I've found that the tunes in your head translate easily enough onto the concertina provided you have learnt to play by sound rather than memorising notes. It doesn't take long to find the right note that you are groping for. The actual mechanics are harder, such as keeping one end fixed, keeping the bellows off your knees, keeping your fingers over a set of buttons instead of letting them drift around etc. But the tuning is actually a lot more logical than it seems at first try. Most of the notes are quite close together and it only takes one or two squeaks to find the one your brain has stored as the next note in the tune. So give it a go, it's actually enjoyable and not the devil's torture after all, if you don't just mess around half-heartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergus_fiddler Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I find it incredible that anyone would take seriously a reference to being "fascist" in that context. It is a comment in line with jokes about "the grammar police": not to be taken seriously. Colloquially a fascist is anyone who acts as if he (or she) knows what is right for other people and tries to impose it on them. Real fascists are bad people. But strangely, they are too busy trying to rule the world to be bantering on the internet about the rights and wrongs of different styles of concertina playing. I for one am entirely comfortable with someone using the expression jokingly about themselves. I would be less comfortable about them using it about someone else unless I could be entirely happy that the "victim" knew it was in jest. Would you leave a pub and never come back because one person at the bar made that comment about himself? Everything depends of the circumstances. Believe me, living in a country ruled during forty years by a fascist and a fascit government, it's not a very nice word to hear in any context... On the other hand, I had to stand sometimes been named 'fascist' by the 'good-boys-globalization-djembe-dreadlocks-antisystem', and I don't give a flying f*** about it And no, I would't leave the pub. Maybe make bigger the distance between he/she and me. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikefule Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Everything depends of the circumstances. Believe me, living in a country ruled during forty years by a fascist and a fascit government, it's not a very nice word to hear in any context... A fair point, well made, but "the meaning of a word is its use", not its origin. Think about telescopic forks on a motorbike: the word is from the Greek for seeing at a distance, but the meaning derives from the way they extend and compress like a nautical telescope. If someone uses a word to mean X, you shouldn't be upset because it also means Y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergus_fiddler Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Everything depends of the circumstances. Believe me, living in a country ruled during forty years by a fascist and a fascit government, it's not a very nice word to hear in any context... A fair point, well made, but "the meaning of a word is its use", not its origin. Think about telescopic forks on a motorbike: the word is from the Greek for seeing at a distance, but the meaning derives from the way they extend and compress like a nautical telescope. If someone uses a word to mean X, you shouldn't be upset because it also means Y. Right. In that case, fascist - that in spanish is spelled the same way that in italian, 'fascista' - is the porter of the fascium, a standard used by the roman army. I'm sorry, but I think that neither the forks of a motorbike or a telescope can harm the feelings of anybody. And in Spain, a lot of the injuries of the war and the dictatorship haven't yet totally closed, if you know what I mean. So, it depends totally of the context. You must be very careful using such a word in my country - geographical context - in certain moments - time context - Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayofiddler Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Yes and my context was making fun of myself. Pleeeeease let this thread die, or at least this part of it. I think it may have been useful to other beginners but is spiralling out of control now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Laban Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Isn't the internet a strange place where a mere dislike for someone's stylistic choices can spin into all sorts of silliness within moments. All over the internet we can see the use (mostly by americans it seems) of the term 'tune-nazi', session-nazi' and variations on that theme. First time I came across this use of the term I didn't understand it and asked the self-proclaimed tune nazi if this meant he was going to murder Tommy Coen's reel, which caused ructions of all sorts. Anyhow, people use words in different ways. No need to get your knickers in a twist. I am more worried about the fierce reactions and calls of 'disrespect' when a particular stylistic choice is called 'awful'. As if a blasphemy was uttered. I happen to think Noel Hill at times makes stylistic choices I find unfortunate, awful even in the case of his treatment of airs in concert. the whole vibrato, reverb and keyboard thing seems well OTT considering he is well able to pull off a good air without resorting to gimmickery. His playing of the Wild Geese with Charlie Lennon on the church organ during Tommy McCarthy's funeral mass is probably the most moving case in point. Or himself playing Caoineadh na dTri Mhuire inside Coore church during Kitty Hayes' funeral. In the same way I think of the first reunion concert with Tony Linnane in Glor in Ennis some years ago. Both men each played a segment of half an hour or so on their own. Linnane playing intricate, somewhat introverted but great music on the fiddle. Noel Hill did his 'performance' thing with Brian McGrath and I thought it was not particularly interesting and at times 'awful' (the airs again). I was glad when he was done. After the break however he toned down for the duets and it was genuinely wonderful, they seemed to be levitating. There was genuine fun and enjoyment in the music and it was absolutely brilliant. It had me walking on air for days. And I say all this to show that being critical of certain choices in a man's playing doesn't need to mean total reaction or 'disrespect' for his playing or his devoted listeners. It's accepting that even the finest players can make choices you don't like and while that's the case, that this doesn't need to diminish your appreciation of other sides of that player's music or his musical achievements. It's not all black and white. Edited February 4, 2009 by Peter Laban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gusten Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yes and my context was making fun of myself. Pleeeeease let this thread die, or at least this part of it. I think it may have been useful to other beginners but is spiralling out of control now. Why can't people accept the wishes of the thread starter, and let this thread remain within the frame it was originally intended? Start a new one with this discussion if you still want to rant. I looked for forum posting rules, but couldn't find any. Except for the information you agree to when you register, but posting within topic was not treated. That is a general rule for forums though... Mayofiddler, let us know how things are going with your new concertina(s)! As I'm new myself, it's fun to hear how others are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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