A Baritone Question.

[Ptarmigan]

Hello there,

 

While I wait for my Aeola Baritone to arrive, I wonder could someone here please tell me what this beast measures, from flat to flat, across the end.

 

I have a large wooden box here, with which I hope to make a carrying case for my Aeola TT & this Baritone.

 

If i knew the dimensions of the Baritone, I would then know whether to start fixing up this box, or go looking elswhere for another option.

 

Cheers

Dick

[PeterT]

If i knew the dimensions of the Baritone.....

Hi Dick,

 

Alternatively, if you have the serial number, we can collectively work it out.

 

Regards,

Peter.

 

PS - want to buy a used computer; one careful owner?

[Ptarmigan]

If i knew the dimensions of the Baritone.....

Hi Dick,

 

Alternatively, if you have the serial number, we can collectively work it out.

 

Regards,

Peter.

 

PS - want to buy a used computer; one careful owner?

Hmmmmm I don't have the serial number yet .... must ask for that.

 

You mean you haven't kicked the living .... out of that PC yet?

 

Cheers

Dick

[PeterT]

You mean you haven't kicked the living .... out of that PC yet?

I can be very patient when I have to. I've only had a problem for about two and a half years. I'm hanging on until it "dies"; I'll then decide whether to buy a new one, or save the money by not having the internet connection!

 

Think of all the spare time I'd have by not being on C.net.

 

So; if it all goes quiet, either I've died, or the computer has!

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Chris Drinkwater]

Hello there,

 

While I wait for my Aeola Baritone to arrive, I wonder could someone here please tell me what this beast measures, from flat to flat, across the end.

 

I have a large wooden box here, with which I hope to make a carrying case for my Aeola TT & this Baritone.

 

If i knew the dimensions of the Baritone, I would then know whether to start fixing up this box, or go looking elswhere for another option.

 

Cheers

Dick

 

I presume your's is a 48 key baritone, which would be a model 20. My guess, is that it is the same size as an ordinary treble Aeola, 6 1/2 inches across the flats, unless the ledgers state differently.

 

Chris

[Robin Harrison]

I would guess if it's a "standard" 48 key Baritone Aeola, it's going to be at least the size of a tenor treble (7 1/4 " for a 56 key to 7 1/2" for a 61 key ). There are a lot of really large reeds there !

If it's a 56 key Baritone it may up to 7 15/16 " .

If your future Baritone IS extended upwards ( ie 56 key) it's a great instrument because the upward extension gives the treble range as well if you don't go too high ie you can play most of your traditional tunes in the treble range. The fingering is of course different.

I think the downside of a Baritone ( which you will find out) is that if you play a fully chorded style , more than two notes together of the deeper notes, makes it completely " muddy". Two notes together sounds terrific.

Gorgeous intstruments though.............it will be a love affair !

Robin

[Ptarmigan]

I would guess if it's a "standard" 48 key Baritone Aeola, it's going to be at least the size of a tenor treble (7 1/4 " for a 56 key to 7 1/2" for a 61 key ). There are a lot of really large reeds there !

If it's a 56 key Baritone it may up to 7 15/16 " .

If your future Baritone IS extended upwards ( ie 56 key) it's a great instrument because the upward extension gives the treble range as well if you don't go too high ie you can play most of your traditional tunes in the treble range. The fingering is of course different.

I think the downside of a Baritone ( which you will find out) is that if you play a fully chorded style , more than two notes together of the deeper notes, makes it completely " muddy". Two notes together sounds terrific.

Gorgeous intstruments though.............it will be a love affair !

Robin

Thanks guys.

 

I've just learned that the number is 31366 so, checking: The ledger I see that it has only 48 keys, but looks like it is 8".

 

That seems a little odd though, if a 56 key is only 7 1/4?

 

What else can you tell about it, from the info in the ledger?

 

Cheers

Dick

 

P.S. Robin, being a Fiddle player for over 30 years, I'm quite happy sticking with double stops, so two notes at a time will suit me just fine!

Edited December 20, 2008 by Ptarmigan

[Robin Harrison]

That seems a little odd though, if a 56 key is only 7 1/4?

That was tenor treble.

WS = wrist straps

KV = key valve ( ie button not bowing /slide) Robin

[Ptarmigan]

Hello there,

 

While I wait for my Aeola Baritone to arrive, I wonder could someone here please tell me what this beast measures, from flat to flat, across the end.

 

I have a large wooden box here, with which I hope to make a carrying case for my Aeola TT & this Baritone.

 

If i knew the dimensions of the Baritone, I would then know whether to start fixing up this box, or go looking elswhere for another option.

 

Cheers

Dick

 

I presume your's is a 48 key baritone, which would be a model 20. My guess, is that it is the same size as an ordinary treble Aeola, 6 1/2 inches across the flats, unless the ledgers state differently.

 

Chris

 

Well Chris, according to The ledger I see that it does have 48 keys but it looks like it is 8", rather than 6 1/2!

 

Why would it be so much larger?

 

Is that a good or a bad sign?

 

Cheers

Dick

[Ptarmigan]

That seems a little odd though, if a 56 key is only 7 1/4?

That was tenor treble.

WS = wrist straps

KV = key valve ( ie button not bowing /slide) Robin

Thanks Robin.

 

So am I right in thinking it has an actual button for the air valve, rather than the metal lever, that my TT has?

 

Cheers

Dick

[Larry Stout]

] I see that it does have 48 keys but it looks like it is 8", rather than 6 1/2!

 

Why would it be so much larger?

 

Is that a good or a bad sign?

 

Cheers

Dick

 

My 48 button baritone (admittedly not an aeola, since it dates from about 1849, hexagonal with German silver reeds) is 7 1/4" across the flats. If I were you I'd hold off on adapting the box for a case until it arrives so you can get the size exactly right. I'm sure you'll be happy with t heh baritone-- they are lovely instruments.

[Ptarmigan]

] I see that it does have 48 keys but it looks like it is 8", rather than 6 1/2!

 

Why would it be so much larger?

 

Is that a good or a bad sign?

 

Cheers

Dick

 

My 48 button baritone (admittedly not an aeola, since it dates from about 1849, hexagonal with German silver reeds) is 7 1/4" across the flats. If I were you I'd hold off on adapting the box for a case until it arrives so you can get the size exactly right. I'm sure you'll be happy with t heh baritone-- they are lovely instruments.

 

Probably a very good idea Larry, just in case!

 

But seriously, do you have any sound files of your Baritone in action?

 

If so, I'd love to hear them.

 

Cheers

Dick

[Chris Drinkwater]

Hello there,

 

While I wait for my Aeola Baritone to arrive, I wonder could someone here please tell me what this beast measures, from flat to flat, across the end.

 

I have a large wooden box here, with which I hope to make a carrying case for my Aeola TT & this Baritone.

 

If i knew the dimensions of the Baritone, I would then know whether to start fixing up this box, or go looking elswhere for another option.

 

Cheers

Dick

 

I presume yours is a 48 key baritone, which would be a model 20. My guess, is that it is the same size as an ordinary treble Aeola, 6 1/2 inches across the flats, unless the ledgers state differently.

 

Chris

 

Well Chris, according to The ledger I see that it does have 48 keys but it looks like it is 8", rather than 6 1/2!

 

Why would it be so much larger?

 

Is that a good or a bad sign?

 

Cheers

Dick

 

Well, according to the seller of the Australian baritone Aeola, Patrick Cullen, he says his is the same size as the normal treble concertina, which would be 6 1/2". That does seem small in size for a baritone which would have larger reeds than a treble to accommodate. He goes on to say that it does look a little bigger because of the 7 fold bellows and not the normal 5 or 6 fold. If you scroll through the Wheatstone Ledgers and look at all the entries for model 20's, you will see that they do vary in size. Either no size is stated, as in 31178, or 7 1/2" as in 30811 and 31254 and 8", like yours, as in 32821. These seem to be the only sizes they made them in. But why the size difference, I don't know, unless they used slightly bigger reeds in some instruments, which would need accommodating. My 1854, 48 key Wheatstone baritone, five years older than Larry Stout's, has hexagonal wooden ends which are 7 1/8" across the flats and has reeds that are made of brass. It's still in old pitch, about 5 cents higher than MCP. Model 20's don't appear to very common. You have something of a rarity there Dick, so, look after it, for the next owner! I look forward to hearing a recording of you playing it at some point.

 

Chris

[Ptarmigan]

Well, according to the seller of the Australian baritone Aeola, Patrick Cullen, he says his is the same size as the normal treble concertina, which would be 6 1/2". That does seem small in size for a baritone which would have larger reeds than a treble to accommodate. He goes on to say that it does look a little bigger because of the 7 fold bellows and not the normal 5 or 6 fold. If you scroll through the Wheatstone Ledgers and look at all the entries for model 20's, you will see that they do vary in size. Either no size is stated, as in 31178, or 7 1/2" as in 30811 and 31254 and 8", like yours, as in 32821. These seem to be the only sizes they made them in. But why the size difference, I don't know, unless they used slightly bigger reeds in some instruments, which would need accommodating. My 1854, 48 key Wheatstone baritone, five years older than Larry Stout's, has hexagonal wooden ends which are 7 1/8" across the flats and has reeds that are made of brass. It's still in old pitch, about 5 cents higher than MCP. Model 20's don't appear to very common. You have something of a rarity there Dick, so, look after it, for the next owner! I look forward to hearing a recording of you playing it at some point.

 

Chris

You've certainly been doing your homework Chris.

It's really amazing, all that info in those old ledgers. Bet it makes the Jeffries men green with envy!

 

I have read here how some players find the larger instruments difficult & sometimes impossible to play, owing to their own finger/bone problems. Fortunately, I have no arthritis {touch wood} & having large hands & long fingers I'm sure I'll have no problem with this 8" beastie.

 

An 1854 Baritone & in old pitch ... WOW! ..... & you say I have something of a rarity! I bet that is truly a sight to behold ... & behear!

 

You can be sure that as soon as I can I'll be posting a couple of fireside YouTubes of it in action.

 

Many thanks for all the details Chris.

 

Cheers

Dick

[Chris Drinkwater]

Dick, we are fortunate that, not only have all but one of the Wheatstone ledgers survived, but that they are now in the public domain, thanks to Neil Wayne, Steve Dickenson, The Horniman Museum curators, and Dan Worral in particular, for assiduously undertaking the task of scanning the ledger books page by page, so that they can now be viewed by all, on-line, in all their fascinating detail. Once we know how to interpret the listings and the shorthand used to describe various different features that some models were equipped with, in the later ledgers, this information can tell us quite a lot about how a particular concertina would have looked when it left the Wheatstone factory. Maybe it was an EC fitted with handstraps, requested by the original purchaser and these have subsequently become worn or damaged and not replaced, or been removed at some stage by a later owner. The ledgers provide ample scope for interesting research projects. One could pick a particular year, e.g. 1923, and do a page by page count of all the different models, to find out which model they made the most of that year, which model they made the smallest quantity of, and note any rarities, such as one off minitures, single action baritones, those made with non-standard numbers of keys, i.e. 43, etc, something, sadly, Lachenal owners can't do. The only reason I bought my 1937 metal-ended 48 key treble Wheatstone, model 17, was so that I could look it up in the ledgers to confirm that it was/is a genuine Wheatstone and be able to say "that's mine"!

 

Chris

[LDT]

You mean you haven't kicked the living .... out of that PC yet?

I can be very patient when I have to. I've only had a problem for about two and a half years. I'm hanging on until it "dies"; I'll then decide whether to buy a new one, or save the money by not having the internet connection!

 

Think of all the spare time I'd have by not being on C.net.

 

So; if it all goes quiet, either I've died, or the computer has!

 

Regards,

Peter.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9j80Jkc_A

 

Try more RAM.

[PeterT]

You mean you haven't kicked the living .... out of that PC yet?

I can be very patient when I have to. I've only had a problem for about two and a half years. I'm hanging on until it "dies"; I'll then decide whether to buy a new one, or save the money by not having the internet connection!

 

Think of all the spare time I'd have by not being on C.net.

 

So; if it all goes quiet, either I've died, or the computer has!

 

Regards,

Peter.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9j80Jkc_A

 

Try more RAM.

I think I've spent all my life trying it!