Concertina Tuning Conventions

[Gan Ainm]

If I push the left-hand middle button on the G row of an anglo concertina, I get G. Moving upwards, I get A,B,C, etc.

 

Moving downwards, on a two-row, I typically get F#,D,D,G.

 

Apart from the fact that, presumably, Mr. Wheatstone designed it that way, can anyone see a good reason for duplicating D, while leaving out E?

 

I am using the G row as an example, because some Irish tunes written in G could be played on a single row if the sequence moving downwards was F#,E,D,G or F#,D,E,G, rather than F#,D,D,G.

 

Leaving aside the "why would you want to play on a single row" question, is there a logical reason why D is duplicated? Given the limited number of buttons available, it seems odd to "waste" a position by duplicating in this way, but perhaps there is a very logical explanation, which is clear ro everyone else, but escapes me!.

 

P.S. Although I've been visiting concertina.net for some time, I've only just registered as a member and this is my first post.

[JimLucas]

Hi "No Name", and welcome.

 

If I push the left-hand middle button on the G row of an anglo concertina, I get G. Moving upwards, I get A,B,C, etc.

 

Moving downwards, on a two-row, I typically get F#,D,D,G.

 

...can anyone see a good reason for duplicating D, while leaving out E?

History.

What we now call the "anglo" wasn't designed to be played in the common contemporary Irish style. The most common style was -- and still is, outside the Irish tunester community -- more chordal, and having the fifth (D in the G row) in both directions is important for getting a good bottom on the two most commonly used chords (in the key of G, those are G and D).

 

Apart from the fact that, presumably, Mr. Wheatstone designed it that way,...

Not fact at all.

Charles Wheatstone designed the English system keyboard. The 20- button "anglo" was originally a German invention, with the additional buttons of today's standard 30-or-more-button instruments being added by other English makers, not Wheatstone. If I remember rightly, the Wheatstone company "resisted" making anglos until after Sir Charles' death.

 

Moving downwards, on a two-row, I typically get F#,D,D,G.

Actually, that bottom button on the G row -- which you note as D/G (pull/push) is arguably the most variable on the whole instrument (at least until one exceeds 30 buttons). On English-made anglos -- even the 20-button ones, -- it's usually either D/B or A/B. Having a G there on the push is something I've seen in German- or Italian-made 20-button instruments. I've also seen D/G where the D is an octave lower than the push D on the next button. That wouldn't help your melody playing, but it gives a nice deep bass to the D chord.

[wntrmute]

To add to the above post, the G row is exactly like the C row in the original instruments, only every note is a fifth higher.

If you look at the lowest three buttons on the C row you have C/G G/B C/D. Pitch those one fifth higher and you get G/D D/F# G/A.

Yes, the G/D on the leftmost G row button is as useless as a screendoor on a submarine.

I think the modern standard for 30 button concertinas is for a B/A there. I don't know about Stagis though -- I know the Rochelle does. You can get a low E on a 30 button on the push of the leftmost accidental row button.

FWIW, the cheap chinese 20 buttons have the useless G/D button, too. Another reason to avoid them, in my mind.

[Tootler]

Could it be they were influenced by harmonica layout?

 

If you look at the notes below middle octave G on a ten hole Richter tuned G harmonica you get G/A, B/D, D/F#

 

As the anglo only has one button below the D/F#, then some compromise is needed. Some have gone for G/D and some for B/A

 

Certainly I think the B/A is a better choice as it gives more options and unlike the harmonica you cannot get a draw G chord in that position which, IIUC is why the harmonica layout is like it is. Added to that, since you can get a draw G chord on the C row, you don't really need one on the G row.

 

Edit to update: Having done another check, it seems the anglo button layout was based on the Richter tuning for harmonica but the query still remains could what I said above explain why the alternative buttons at the bottom of the G row are like they are?

 

Geoff

Edited November 17, 2007 by Tootler

[Gan Ainm]

Many thanks .

 

It is interesting to hear that Irish music is not at the centre of the concertina universe!

 

Since there does not seem to be an agreed standard for the bottom left note, I will consider re-tuning one of the duplicated notes to give me my missing E on the G row, or equivalent on other rows.

 

I stand corrected on Mr. Wheatstone's role (or lack of) in the invention of the anglo concertina - thanks for this clarification.

 

Pat

[meltzer]

Added to that, since you can get a draw G chord on the C row, you don't really need one on the G row.

I take that to be the reasoning behind it too. I find myself heading over to the C & chromatic rows for chords for playing in G anyway -- perhaps the G row "basses" are there to supplement the 'missing' ones on the other two.

 

Mind you, I don't have a clue what I'm on about.

Edited November 22, 2007 by meltzer

[Hooves]

If I push the left-hand middle button on the G row of an anglo concertina, I get G. Moving upwards, I get A,B,C, etc.

 

Moving downwards, on a two-row, I typically get F#,D,D,G.

 

Apart from the fact that, presumably, Mr. Wheatstone designed it that way, can anyone see a good reason for duplicating D, while leaving out E?

 

Shivering, I reached for a torch thinking the power had gone out, my breath clouding in the air, I brushed the tiny icicles from my beard. I looked around my flat and noticed a layer of snow on the draw rug: half stuttering as I rubbed a clear spot on the bathroom mirror I surveyed my now frosty bluish horns.

 

Checking the thermostat, ah yes, I see the problem:

 

An anglo player complaining about one two many D notes...

 

 

--------------------

 

Just teasing all you double winded anglo players

Edited December 3, 2007 by Hooves

[Cogsey]

This is an interesting thread. I play a 28 key Jeffries and lacking the E on the draw, I asked Colin Dipper to put one in on the left side, outside row 4th note. Colin obliged. Can't remember what I lost at the time (I was ten) but as a more mature player, I now find myself lacking low Bflat - so that was probably what I lost. The E (pull) is extremely useful though - perhaps I should have thought of swapping the D instead! ~Just need to find space for a Csharp on the push!!! ...eh....Colin?

 

Ciaran

Kildare