Repairer In Merseyside

[Musical Sore]

I'm learning to play an old Wheatstone English concertina - I haven't dared look inside, all I've done is mend the thumbstrap. I suspect that the instrument hasn't been played all that much - the upper octaves are pretty much in tune (although one high accidental only sounds on the push and squarks on the pull) - and it must be pretty old - it's definitely in meantone tuning. The lowest octave is less prompt to sound and a couple of the notes are very out of tune. The bellows seem fine (not that I would know) and there's no splits on the ends. I think it just needs a good servicing. I'm based in Merseyside. Do you recommend anybody? (I realise that an alternative would be to sell the instrument and buy one that's already been repaired, but I'm attached to this one now).

[DerekR]

Hi Musical

 

I've been trying to locate a good repairer locally too, but it appears that the fine art of concertina repairs is something of a dying art save for the few brave and skilled souls still dotted about the country.

 

I have a couple of Anglos that are in need of a good re-tune, and it looks like I'm going to have to parcel them up and send them away to be done.

 

If you manage to locate anyone within a 30/40 mile radius of Liverpool please let us know via these forums (I'm in Wirral)

 

Welcome to the site by the way.

 

Derek

[spindizzy]

If you manage to locate anyone within a 30/40 mile radius of Liverpool please let us know via these forums (I'm in Wirral)

 

Dave Elliott in Sheffield is almost in the circle you've drawn.....

http://www.birchhouseave.co.uk/

 

A bit further would be Dave Leese in N.Wales

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/concertinaman/catalogue.htm

(though I done' know if he takes on repairs as well as selling spares)

 

Chris

Edited March 7, 2007 by spindizzy

[Johann]

I'm learning to play an old Wheatstone English concertina - I haven't dared look inside, all I've done is mend the thumbstrap. I suspect that the instrument hasn't been played all that much - the upper octaves are pretty much in tune (although one high accidental only sounds on the push and squarks on the pull) - and it must be pretty old - it's definitely in meantone tuning. The lowest octave is less prompt to sound and a couple of the notes are very out of tune. The bellows seem fine (not that I would know) and there's no splits on the ends. I think it just needs a good servicing. I'm based in Merseyside. Do you recommend anybody? (I realise that an alternative would be to sell the instrument and buy one that's already been repaired, but I'm attached to this one now).

 

 

"definitely in meantone tuning."

 

This sounds interesting to me, I never did get a lot of reply on this subject.

I was always puzzled if i had it correct how the old English concertinas ware tuned.

 

Is there a way that you can verify that the tuning is meantone on your instrument?

 

If i am right English Concertinas war tuned with pure 5th and pure 3rds.

This leads to the fact that some note existing on two keys (D#/Eb and G#/Ab) are not exactly on the same pitch.

The difference between D# and Eb is 21,5 cent (Syntomatisches Comma).

would be good to hear form someone if i am right or not.

 

 

 

Hope you find a person near you who knows what he is doing when he is doing the service on this old Instrument!

 

Best regards, Johann

[Musical Sore]

"definitely in meantone tuning."

 

Well, I haven't had the sounds professionally analysed, and a couple of notes are out of tune, but all the G#s are in tune with each other, all the Ab s are in tune with each other, all the D# s are in tune with each other and all the Eb s are in tune with each other; but the D#s are about a quarter-tone flat of the Eb s and the G#s are about a quarter-tone flat of the Ab s. (It was when I noticed this that I started reading up on meantone tuning). A scale of A major or Eb major sounds noticably wrong if you play the alternative accidentals.

 

The thirds sound purer than the fifths. But I noticed this after reading up on meantone temperament, so this could simply be my ear telling me to believe what I read.

 

The pitch, by the way, is around the Society of Arts pitch of C=530, although the concertina is around 1851 in date.

 

I wouldn't want to have the instrument tuned to modern concert pitch and even temperament - it would seem wrong. I think I'd rather play out of tune with everyone else.

 

(thanks to everyone who has replied to my original message)

[Johann]

"definitely in meantone tuning."

 

Well, I haven't had the sounds professionally analysed, and a couple of notes are out of tune, but all the G#s are in tune with each other, all the Ab s are in tune with each other, all the D# s are in tune with each other and all the Eb s are in tune with each other; but the D#s are about a quarter-tone flat of the Eb s and the G#s are about a quarter-tone flat of the Ab s. (It was when I noticed this that I started reading up on meantone tuning). A scale of A major or Eb major sounds noticably wrong if you play the alternative accidentals.

 

The thirds sound purer than the fifths. But I noticed this after reading up on meantone temperament, so this could simply be my ear telling me to believe what I read.

 

The pitch, by the way, is around the Society of Arts pitch of C=530, although the concertina is around 1851 in date.

 

I wouldn't want to have the instrument tuned to modern concert pitch and even temperament - it would seem wrong. I think I'd rather play out of tune with everyone else.

 

(thanks to everyone who has replied to my original message)

 

Thank you for taking you time to confirm my conclusions, You do speak of Information you did read about the subject is there anything on the net what deals with exactly the meantone tuning in use on concertinas in past days?

I never did come across anything, but this may because it is more difficult to find something here in Austria even if i do a search via google it looks like there is noting on the net about it.

If any one knows material on the net about it please drop me the link.

Also Interesting would be to hear some comments how this Instructs with the meantone tuning sound compare to other tunned to equal scale.

I would expect, that if the are tuned well there should be a very distinctive difference in sound and timbre.

Here in Austria we do not have a lot of opportunity's to hear Concertinas at all.

 

Best regards, Johann