"muffling" Or "reducing" The Hayden's Bass Vol

[squeezegirl]

Greetings People

 

I've been trying the 'search' without much success. Would putting a foam lining (or some similar fabric) inside the cover of the Hayden's left hand (bass side) - thus covering the fret holes in the cover - be an effective way of reducing the volume?

 

I suppose an effective way to get an answer to this question would be for me to just go ahead and try it ... but I believe there are very knowledgeable people in this Forum who may have expertise on this subject, so I thought I'd ask, first.

 

The 'problem' of course is ... that the left side reeds overpower the right side (treble) reeds. Everybody here surely knows what I'm talking about, so no need for me to be detailed.

 

What I want to do is reduce the volume of the left hand so that it does not overpower the right.

 

Very much appreciate your suggestions.

 

And thanks!

 

Maria

[JimLucas]

What I want to do is reduce the volume of the left hand so that it does not overpower the right.

Try searching the Forum for the word "baffles", and then baffle just the one side.

 

The usual baffles are internal, but Danny ("RatFace") has shown how he created removable external baffles.

[Dirge]

At the risk of teaching grandma to suck eggs, before you blame the tools, you've realised the various tricks have you? (anyone got any more for me?) Like that opening the buttons gently reduces the attack on the reeds so playing the LH as smoothly as you can while hitting the RH fast pushes the tune; that keeping your LH touch light and crisp does the same by reducing swamping, that some pieces of music simply do not work if played as written because they have too much bass; that the balance between the ends varies with air pressure; that you can usually hear each end differently because of their different positions relative to your ears so what you hear may not be a true impression anyway. Keeping it in balance is all part of the challenge of the thing.

[Richard Morse]

Would putting a foam lining (or some similar fabric) inside the cover of the Hayden's left hand (bass side) - thus covering the fret holes in the cover - be an effective way of reducing the volume?

It should somewhat. I suggest a thin layer of dense wool felt to cover the inside of the end (exclusive of things that need to go through it like the buttons...). You can start of by just placing it in without gluing it to see what thickness works well and yet doesn't interfere with the action.

 

While it will lower the sound some, it probably won't make as much of a difference as one would think as the ends already have a plasticy grille "cloth" which has minimal holes in it. Conversely you can remove the grille cloth from the right side to make it a bit brighter sounding.

 

One of the problems with Stagis is that the reeds are inherently unbalanced (unlike vintage duets which often have the bass side reeds truncated so to be not as loud. Sometimes the fretwork of vintage duets is more closed on the bass side as well).

[squeezegirl]

 

"you can remove the grille cloth from the right side to make it a bit brighter sounding."

 

Hi Rich ~ I was wondering if by removing the grille 'cloth' on the treble whether it may make that side a bit brighter. What I would like to ask you is...

 

Would removing the grill cloth tend to expose the reeds to a greater dose of dust / smoke and such-like?

 

Obviously because the grille cloth has holes in it, dust and debris will get in, I'd just like to ask you if it would amplify the possibility of these hazards affecting the reeds?

 

Squeezegirl Maria

[Richard Morse]

Would removing the grill cloth tend to expose the reeds to a greater dose of dust / smoke and such-like?

 

Obviously because the grille cloth has holes in it, dust and debris will get in, I'd just like to ask you if it would amplify the possibility of these hazards affecting the reeds?

Yes, taking off the grille cloth will allow more stuff to get in there - but in reality very little does. Most vintage concertinas don't have grille cloths and they seem to do just fine. My Wheatstone gets a lot of use and I get a debris problem less than once a year. Usually its a very short hair that gets caught between the reed and frame. Easy to fix. Not so easy with a Stagi though. Stagis also have much larger fretwork piercing which may make debris more of a problem.

 

Even though my Wheatstone is better volume-balanced than a Stagi, I tend to play with a large, hard surface to my right side which reflects the treble. About 2 to 2 1/2 feet seems to be a "good" distance. While a wall works well my favorite reflector is the side of a piano (large upright). Alternatively I tend to sit on a chair or couch turned a bit to the left so that the bass pojects into the back cushions which tend to lower it's apparent sound some (and gets the treble out into the room).

 

When playing with others I always scope out the seating possibilities for the best spot and sometimes ask to swap places with folks (just as others need special accomodations for their instruments - like BA players don't to armchairs).

[Stephen Chambers]

Would putting a foam lining (or some similar fabric) inside the cover of the Hayden's left hand (bass side) - thus covering the fret holes in the cover - be an effective way of reducing the volume?

 

What I want to do is reduce the volume of the left hand so that it does not overpower the right.

Maria,

 

I would recommend you to take a look at Bob Gaskins article "Baffles for Maccann Duet Concertinas" on the

Concertina Library website: http://www.concertina.com/, where the subject is examined in depth by Bob, who is a player of the Maccann duet.

[squeezegirl]

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO GAVE SUGGESTIONS. Let me tell you what I've done and which is working admirably ~

 

I took some closed cell foam of a type that I use to outfit the cockpit in my kayak... and I cut little 'oblongs' and fitted these into the fretwork holes from the outside of the Hayden (the grill cloth is on the inside.)

 

This has effectively plugged the holes and I must say, greatly reduced the volume so that - to my ears - the overall sound is now more balanced.

 

I value the suggestions squeezers have given re playing the left hand gingerly, and so on. I have to admit that my playing style is probably part of my 'problem.' I believe if I was playing 'Irish music' the many suggestions would work fine.

 

I play hymns and tend to play many full, sustained chords on the left hand. I play jazz and again, tend to play many full chords. I play very few 'folk songs' and no 'jigs.'

 

Some here may be interested in two 'custom' accordions I had made by Beltuna. One is a 'push-pull' diatonic and the other is a 'C' system chromatic. On the bass side, instead of the regular basses, I have 12 buttons on the diatonic which are unisonic (same note on the push as on the pull.) On the chromatic I have 36 bass buttons, also unisonic. The reeds are regular basoon reeds ... not the deep accordion bass reeds. What this does for me on the left hand is... it allows me to 'make' the chords instead of having a ready made chord at the press of a button.

 

Thus: if I want to play (say) C7 on the left I can play any 2 notes of the chord I choose to, or 3. Or all 4 - (which I seldom do.)

 

For me, the beauty of music, - at least the music I play - is in the melody of the song and I want the 'accompaniment' to be comprehensive, yet quiet... or "out of the way" you could say.

 

Of course I know I'm being very egotistical here, but I wonder why accordion manufacturers do not make a standard box with the left hand side as I've described. I'm aware there are full 120 note left hand accordion bass set ups that can be played as single notes but I saying that 36, arranged in 3 rows of 12 notes give fantastic possibilities.

 

And I wonder why concertina makers do not offer a model with the left hand 'damped' as standard, since, in my going around, I hear so many fellow squeezers complaining of the same 'problems' I've described.

 

I know this will also blow some minds... (but what the heck! ! !) - I'd like to see a Stage Hayden with the right hand starting on the low C that's presently on the left AND the left hand starting on the C that's presently on the right. Sorry I can't describe this better, I should be able to say 'middle C' or C below middle C but I play entirely be ear and have not got these technicalities at my fingertips.

 

Thanks to all of you.

 

MC

[Richard Morse]

I took some closed cell foam of a type that I use to outfit the cockpit in my kayak... and I cut little 'oblongs' and fitted these into the fretwork holes from the outside of the Hayden (the grill cloth is on the inside.)

An elegant (with interesting esthetics) solution.

I wonder why accordion manufacturers do not make a standard box with the left hand side as I've described.

Most likely because there isn't enough demand for them to do so.

And I wonder why concertina makers do not offer a model with the left hand 'damped' as standard, since, in my going around, I hear so many fellow squeezers complaining of the same 'problems' I've described.

The better vintage concertinas are designed/constructed with diminished bass side volume. Most makers can't keep up with their current orders to make standard boxes let alone put a lot of effort (typically undercompensated) into a one-off like that.

I know this will also blow some minds... (but what the heck! ! !) - I'd like to see a Stage Hayden with the right hand starting on the low C that's presently on the left AND the left hand starting on the C that's presently on the right.

Now that's easy to do! Just pick up your box and play it upside down. It's a bit harder on Stagi than Wheatstone as the rows slant more, but you should still be able to get a feel for it.

[Stephen Chambers]

I value the suggestions squeezers have given re playing the left hand gingerly, and so on. I have to admit that my playing style is probably part of my 'problem.'

That advice would be what has been suggested since concertinas capable of harmonic playing were first made, starting in the 1830s with German ones, followed by the various duet systems over the years.

 

I believe if I was playing 'Irish music' the many suggestions would work fine.

In fact Irish traditional music would not normally be played that way at all. In Irish-style Anglo playing most of the melody tends to be played on the left-hand side of the instrument, and there is no chordal "accompaniment". And duet concertinas of any description are just about unheard of in Ireland (I only know of a couple of singers who have them).

 

... I wonder why accordion manufacturers do not make a standard box with the left hand side as I've described. I'm aware there are full 120 note left hand accordion bass set ups that can be played as single notes but I saying that 36, arranged in 3 rows of 12 notes give fantastic possibilities.

That sounds a lot like the "bassetti", "melody" or "free" bass system? In which case it can be made with 3, 4, or 5 rows, and small models are available. (But the concept always sounds (to me at least) like a classical accordionists' attempt to reinvent the concertina? )

 

And I wonder why concertina makers do not offer a model with the left hand 'damped' as standard, since, in my going around, I hear so many fellow squeezers complaining of the same 'problems' I've described.

It may be a problem for the way that you play, but what happens when somebody wants to change to playing the melody on the left, and the accompaniment on the right whilst performing, which it would not be unusual for an accomplished player to do when playing variations/for effect.

[groeswenphil]

Well, I play Anglo, but this simple method works for me.

 

Cross your leg...........left leg over right.

This creates a sort of hollow in the crotch region.

Stick the left hand side of the concertina into that hollow.

Now try playing.

Have you achieved thedesired effect?

Phil