Anglo? On Ebay

[Lester Bailey]

Described as a 48 key Jefferies anglo but is it a duet?? I play English so I know nothing

 

Look here

[JimLucas]

Described as a 48 key Jefferies anglo but is it a duet?? URL=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=308&item=3737113623&rd=1]Look here[/url]

The description does not say it's a Jeffries.

Some minor differences from Jeffries that I know, but those with more experience can judge better than I.

 

The seller says he can't find a scale on it, but that it's a C/G anglo in concert pitch. I therefor presume that information came from the person who sent it to him, and is probably accurate.

 

I suppose it's possibly one of the fabled duet-to-anglo conversions, though my experience with Jeffries instruments suggests that they used precisely the same ends for both anglos and duets, and only what notes went under each button differed. The positioning of the buttons for a duet or anglo with more than 38 buttons seems to be precisely that of the 38-button version, but with more buttons added around the edges. And since I've known contemporary anglo players who like having lots of buttons, it's not unreasonable to expect that at least some were also made that way by Jeffries, and not all were converted duets. I have a 45-button Jeffries anglo that I'm convinced was always an anglo.

 

The last thing to say is that even Wheastone (according to the ledgers) made Jeffries-layout anglos, many-button anglos, and I believe even a few Jeffries-system duets. I'd be surprised if Lachenal didn't. And what about Crabb?

[Paul Groff]

Hello,

 

Absolutely, yes, Jeffries, Crabb and Wheatstone made anglos with more than 40 buttons. Our contributor Alan Day has raved about his "extended layout" Linota. I have seen Lachenal and Crabb anglos also with extended keyboards.

 

I have a Jeffries anglo with 50 keys in Ab/Eb, unrestored, and soon should be receiving a lovely original tuning Bb/F 45 key anglo back from re-bellowing. Both were bought by me completely unrestored and in old pitch and temperament, and the reedpans and reeds are dead original Jeffries work, made as anglos.

 

Some Jeffries anglos with more than 38 keys, being played today, have been converted from duets but the chamber sizes and the reworking of the low reeds usually give these away. I guess an exception would be if a duet went back to the Jeffries shop back when that shop was still operating, and new reedpans were fitted to the instrument at that time; then it would be hard to tell today. I think Stephen Chambers has mentioned that during that time (as well as since) conversions in both directions (J. duet to anglo and anglo to J. duet) were made, and very old, very professional jobs might be harder to detect.

 

You can't evaluate a concertina from a photograph or from the description of a seller who is not REALLY knowledgeable about concertinas (and also very honest, preferably with a business reputation to maintain). Pretend I wrote that 20 times. A lot of the recent grief over ebay sales could be avoided if potential buyers realized this.

 

With this in mind, if I had in hand the instrument that started this thread I would look closer to see if the ends are aluminum rather than the more typical nickel silver. I would also look inside to see if it had a Lachenal, Crabb, or Wheatstone serial number. The fretwork is not one of the most common types, but does look familiar to me. Whoever made it clearly put time and craftsmanship toward the goal of making a high quality concertina.

 

Paul

Edited July 18, 2004 by Paul Groff

[JimLucas]

Absolutely, yes, Jeffries, Crabb and Wheatstone made anglos with more than 40 buttons.

And Lachenal. Definitely Lachenal. I remember now a Lachenal anglo Paul Davis had, which had a full fourth row for each hand. In the left it was extra-low bass notes. And with raised metal ends, I would say it must have been a New Model.

 

I have .... Both were bought by me completely unrestored and in old pitch and temperament, and the reedpans and reeds are dead original Jeffries work, made as anglos.

My 45-button Jeffries anglo and another like it that Hobgoblin had for sale last year both have the left-hand thumb button opening onto the same chamber as one of the 4th-row buttons, and the same other button in both, so that appears to set a sort of standard. Jeffries duets had no such duplication.

[Paul Groff]

Hi Jim,

 

Yes, I meant to include Lachenal also.

 

I have seen the LH thumb button setup you mention for 45 key Jeffries but my 45 key (and also my 50 key) have separate chambers and reed-pairs for that button; it doesn't just form a "duplicate touch" for the chamber accessed by another button.

 

I think Chris Timson's 45 key was described by him to have the LH thumb button functioning in the way that you describe for yours also.

 

Paul

[Greg Jowaisas]

Martin, whom I believe is selling this concertina was nice enough to send pictures of the mystery concertina's interior. While I can hardly claim to be an expert I did notice that a number of action arms, reed shoe clamps and screws were not uniform. That is, there were often two different sizes of screws or what appears to be mostly brass action arms with perhaps an occasional galvanized or aluminum arm. The button pan sides appeared much thicker than normal and roughly finished on the inside.

 

The fret work and buttons certainly look aluminum in these additional pictures.

 

The action appears to be rivetted and reminescent of Crabb's.

 

The reed pan has a pattern of rectangle chambers but not with the finess or sense of order of the Crabbs or Jeffries that i have seen.

 

The only identifying mark is a # 1. And that might say it all. Were there any small, occassional makers of concertinas in the Galway area? I get the idea this may be a short run or one of a kind. Not possibly without considerable merit or potential I might add!

 

I'd love to hear the opinions of those with more expertise.

 

Regards, Greg

[JimLucas]

Martin, whom I believe is selling this concertina was nice enough to send pictures of the mystery concertina's interior. 

Thanks for the report. I, too, have asked for more photos, but as yet no reply.

[Greg Jowaisas]

Martin has posted additional pictures of the mystery concertina's reed pan and mechanism. Ebay Item number: 3737113623

 

I have looked at the larger but less in focus picture he sent me of the reed pan. When he says the reeds are "rivetted to the mechanism" I'm not sure if he is referring to the actual reeds (whose clamps are attched to the shoes by either two screws or rivets, hard to tell) or the action arm and post which do appear rivetted.

I've asked for clarification.

 

With the additional pics, I would be very interested in observations (and conjecture) from the more experienced.

 

Regards, Greg

[Greg Jowaisas]

Martin responded saying "the reeds are made of steel and are rivetted".

 

Greg

[JimLucas]

Martin responded saying "the reeds are made of steel and are rivetted".

A puzzle, since the photos he sent me clearly show that the reeds in both ends are not rivetted, but clamped by the standard bar held by two screws.

The reeds do look like steel, perhaps with a bit of rust on some of them.

Several have lumps of lead added to the tips, suggesting to me that at least some of them have been used for pitches they weren't originally intended for.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Hi Lester and all,

 

My thoughts on the instrument in question.

 

Upon close examination of enlargements of the pictures presented, it would appear to me that this ‘48’ key instrument has actually got 50 keys plus a wind key. I have compared the key layout with Crabb plans* and the positions of the keys is of that common to the 50 key ‘Jeffries’ Duet system.

Inside the endbox, a glued joint can just be seen about halfway up the sides and this would suggest that originally this instrument had wood tops being replaced with metal at some later date. The fretwork is not recognisable as Crabb nor easily, the action.

There is evidence that some reeds may have been moved or replaced by those from another instrument in that some frames have notches for screw fixing although they are slotted into the pan.

I could not commit myself to say a maker or who carried out the later work or indeed if this is a conversion but the evidence does suggest that this maybe a hybrid. This is not a problem if the instrument is fit for a prospective buyers intended purpose.

 

For information, it is quite common for reed tongues in these greater keyed instruments to be loaded, (weight to be added to the tips). The number of reeds and the physical size of the instrument dictate that the preferred sizes of reeds cannot be accommodated.

 

And for those interested, the Crabb number records show:

Some 46 keyed Anglo’s were actually made in the 5.5 inch size.

Anglo’s were known to be made up to 59 key (the Shuttleworth Anglo #18472 mentioned elsewhere in these forums was only 53 key).

Jeffries system Duets were made with up to 71, yes 71 Keys. Some of the very lowest notes having a different note press and draw to further increase the range.

 

* The plan mentioned is for a Crabb 7.5 inch Octagonal JD with radial pans which allows the use of preferred reed sizes and eliminates the use of reeds in the pan centres which generally do not perform as well as those fitted from the pan edge.

 

I am having great difficulties with accessing mail and internet via my usual ISP at the moment and have submitted this via a fall back ISP. I apologise to any trying to contact me.

 

Geoff Crabb

[JimLucas]

Anglo’s were known to be made up to 59 key (the Shuttleworth Anglo #18472 mentioned elsewhere in these forums was only 53 key)..

I was the one who mentioned that one (saying it was more than 60 buttons), based on the memory of an evening visit to Ron back in 1981.

... Thanks for the correction.

Edited July 23, 2004 by JimLucas