Geoff Wooff Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 On my Maccann the left side hand rail is positioned centrally, with regard to the keyboard but on the right side the rail is positioned slightly off centre towards the F#/Bb row. So when I sight through the strap from the wrist side the six rows don't appear centrally positioned. Is this normal ? Is it to help the reach of the little finger? Should I re-position the rail centrally because it does feel slightly unbalanced this way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 It seems very common to have the rails in funny lopsided places, not even necessarily square to the ends, judging from the machines I've owned. I suppose this has to be deliberate 'tuning' but it looks like poor assembly to me! One of my instruments has 3 sets of holes from various repositionings, although that's probably just people compensating for finger length. 'If it feels wrong move it' has got to be the right answer, especially as you describe; offset to one side seems very pointless. Or do what I do; put up with it and every time you strain to reach the top corner think 'I really must sort that rail out'...central and square seems to work for me, anyway. The handrail's position is probably less important than it might seem because all the anchorage/location comes from your thumb bracing your hand out into the straps, and you can automatically compensate a bit when you play. Worth putting right, even so. Why have anything fighting you that you don't need? How are you getting on with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 It seems very common to have the rails in funny lopsided places, not even necessarily square to the ends, judging from the machines I've owned. I suppose this has to be deliberate 'tuning' but it looks like poor assembly to me! One of my instruments has 3 sets of holes from various repositionings, although that's probably just people compensating for finger length. 'If it feels wrong move it' has got to be the right answer, especially as you describe; offset to one side seems very pointless. Or do what I do; put up with it and every time you strain to reach the top corner think 'I really must sort that rail out'...central and square seems to work for me, anyway. The handrail's position is probably less important than it might seem because all the anchorage/location comes from your thumb bracing your hand out into the straps, and you can automatically compensate a bit when you play. Worth putting right, even so. Why have anything fighting you that you don't need? How are you getting on with it? Hello Dirge, thanks for that... yes I moved the strap bar to a central position, there was only one set of screw holes so it must allways have been like that. It now feels more controlable overall except that the stretch to the far corner keys is worse for my little finger. I am getting on quite well for just three weeks and enjoying it. Can play several simple tunes with lefthand chords in C. I don't have enough time for practicing at present but I am sure we all feel the same about time, life and work get in the way. Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Can't believe the stretch is really that bad; you want to try an 81 key... Playing harmonised tunes in 3 weeks sounds good progress to me; well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Can't believe the stretch is really that bad; you want to try an 81 key... Well yes exactly, I was wondering about that. I surely should be able to reach all the keys on a 57 comfortably , it is not that I have small hands. I've been experimenting with strap tightness etc., to see what compromise I can come to regarding 'control' and 'reach'. I must look into the use of my thumbs to control the straps. I had to spend a couple of days 'restoring' the instrument ( Pads, Valves, New straps and a little Tuning) and setting the key heights and spring presure. Luckily I have a head full of the local dance tunes which are mostly played in C and comprise plenty of Waltzes, Mazurkas and Schottishes which are not too complicated for the beginner. I am just making up my own accompaniments, seeing what fits where, to start with and trying some sheet music reading too. A fine adventure! Edited May 3, 2011 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Jordan Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Can't believe the stretch is really that bad; you want to try an 81 key... Well yes exactly, I was wondering about that. I surely should be able to reach all the keys on a 57 comfortably , it is not that I have small hands. I've been experimenting with strap tightness etc., to see what compromise I can come to regarding 'control' and 'reach'. I must look into the use of my thumbs to control the straps. I had to spend a couple of days 'restoring' the instrument ( Pads, Valves, New straps and a little Tuning) and setting the key heights and spring presure. Luckily I have a head full of the local dance tunes which are mostly played in C and comprise plenty of Waltzes, Mazurkas and Schottishes which are not too complicated for the beginner. I am just making up my own accompaniments, seeing what fits where, to start with and trying some sheet music reading too. A fine adventure! Hi Geoff. A fine adventure indeed! Personally, I've never thought of moving the bars. Have just adapted my playing style to suit the instrument, but, I can't see any reason not to, if you find it too difficult to play! Happy to hear that you're making progress! Might I suggest playing in "F" (God's own key!)...Oh, and try and come up with an interesting tune for our planned Duet Trio! As weird as you like! Kind thoughts Ralphie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Hi Geoff. A fine adventure indeed! Personally, I've never thought of moving the bars. Have just adapted my playing style to suit the instrument, but, I can't see any reason not to, if you find it too difficult to play! Happy to hear that you're making progress! Might I suggest playing in "F" (God's own key!)...Oh, and try and come up with an interesting tune for our planned Duet Trio! As weird as you like! Kind thoughts Ralphie! Well I don't have your long fingers Ralph but I think that by putting my hands fully into the straps and angling my palms a little to place my little finger as far up as possible I am managing better. From memory I think that you play with a somewhat downward angle, of your hands, so as to keep them fully pushed into the straps. Am I right ? Maybe I should modify the shape of the straps so that they are flat across the back and rounded on the keyboard side of the bars or just put the left strap on the right and vice versa ? I will go to F and G and gradually move out into the sharper and flater keys. Seaching for that interesting tune; I have one of my own in G minor ( a four part 3 time Boureé) which I will try to put on the Maccann but the seach continues for the most bizare possible. Happy days, Geoff. Edited May 3, 2011 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Irishman Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I've been experimenting with strap tightness etc., to see what compromise I can come to regarding 'control' and 'reach'. Geoff, When I got my vintage Lachenal Crane, it had vintage hand-straps (stamped "Salvation Army"), which were thin and supple from much use. In the attempt to get control and reach, I adjusted the straps back and forth, but couldn't find an optimum. I'd never had that poblem with my Stagi Anglo. So what was the difference? The Stagi has very thick, stiff hand-straps! So I ordered a pair of David Leese's extra-thick handstraps, put them on my Crane, and bingo! With the straps wide enough to get my hands right in and free up my fingers, the instrument no longer wobbled about! This cheap, simple modification bought an astounding improvement in playability. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 Geoff, When I got my vintage Lachenal Crane, it had vintage hand-straps (stamped "Salvation Army"), which were thin and supple from much use. In the attempt to get control and reach, I adjusted the straps back and forth, but couldn't find an optimum. I'd never had that poblem with my Stagi Anglo. So what was the difference? The Stagi has very thick, stiff hand-straps! So I ordered a pair of David Leese's extra-thick handstraps, put them on my Crane, and bingo! With the straps wide enough to get my hands right in and free up my fingers, the instrument no longer wobbled about! This cheap, simple modification bought an astounding improvement in playability. Cheers, John Thanks for that John, but I have done exactly that too and yes it does make a difference. Dirge suggested getting straps of even thicker leather ( 3/16ths of an inch thick) and maybe I will try to find some leather like this. I can get the reach needed with the straps fairly loose but then the wobbles begin and I have to jamb the instrument firmly on my lap. I must look at the video of Perci Honri again, where he is playing his huge Maccann standing up! I am sure I will get used to it in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardie Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 A general problem with Duet hand rests is making conditions both stable and reachable. It is obvious that this is impossible with the traditional concept. Either you can not control the bellows or you can not reach the distant buttons. There have been trials to improve the situation and the article by Randall Merris about Hurlstone concertinas in ICA "PICA" volume 5 page 53-57 Fig 4 illustrates one attempt. http://www.concertina.org/pica/pica_2008_5/PICA_5_p57_61.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I can't play standing at all. How did the Greats do it? I think they played 3 finger a lot of the time with their thumbs hard down on the rest, the backs of their hands braced into fairly tight straps and their little fingers hard down on the other side. Lovely and stable, but cramping. Look at the old pictures. (I bet they used that little finger when really needed though. I suspect mine do more work than any other fingers.) Funny keys would be harder too because you'd have trouble swinging your hand about in the straps, given that it was tasked with holding everything in tension at the same time. By the time I realised this I'd taught myself a '4 fingers and occasional thumb' style based on using my knee to stabiise it and it was too late but I doubt I'd have done anything else anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 By the way Geoff here's a piece you might think appropriate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 By the way Geoff here's a piece you might think appropriate... Oh, thankyou! I've printed it out and will try it tomorrow. Cheers, Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Jordan Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Well I don't have your long fingers Ralph but I think that by putting my hands fully into the straps and angling my palms a little to place my little finger as far up as possible I am managing better. From memory I think that you play with a somewhat downward angle, of your hands, so as to keep them fully pushed into the straps. Am I right ? Maybe I should modify the shape of the straps so that they are flat across the back and rounded on the keyboard side of the bars or just put the left strap on the right and vice versa ? I will go to F and G and gradually move out into the sharper and flater keys. Seaching for that interesting tune; I have one of my own in G minor ( a four part 3 time Boureé) which I will try to put on the Maccann but the seach continues for the most bizare possible. Happy days, Geoff. Geoff...I have a couple of quirky Swedish Polskas that have been taxing me for quite some time! 3/4 (but you wouldn't know it to look at them!) As soon as I can get some sort of "handle" on them, I'll send you a CD...I'm really quite excited by the thought of recording with you and Lis...Get it on!!! Ralphie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardie Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I can't play standing at all. How did the Greats do it? I think they played 3 finger a lot of the time with their thumbs hard down on the rest, the backs of their hands braced into fairly tight straps and their little fingers hard down on the other side. Lovely and stable, but cramping. Look at the old pictures. Is this photo below with Percy Honri what you mean? Maybe played as you say or maybe just posing for the photo? It really is a cramping method and you loose a great part of the keyboard range. The Hurlstone modification ( PICA volume 5, see earlier post) with a thumbstrap stabilizes the hand and liberates the little finger. One step further stabilizing the whole hand was illustrated with a Crane Duet in PICA volume 6 Page 63 : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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