For Sale Boyd Lachenal English Concertina

[chiton1]

I have too many concertinas ( ), and one has to go. So I am looking for a good home for the following:

Top quality English concertina. A metal ended extended (56 buttons) treble Boyd Lachenal new model. Series number 41487 (ca. 1905). Note that this is not a tenor treble, the extra notes (extension) are in the upper registers.

It is in concert pitch.

A few improvements were made on this concertina. It has now completely new riveted action (made by Wim Wakker in 2003), and a new 6 fold bellows (made by Wim Wakker in 2006), instead of the original somewhat rigid 5 fold bellows. There are two (one on either side) air buttons.

There are four tiny holes on the sides to fasten wrist straps if desired (which I have filled and closed, but can be opened again if one uses wrist straps). A very small chip of the veneer has come of (see photograph).

Compared to other concertinas the Lachenal new model has buttons which are not as high elevated and seem to be a fraction closer to each other, which should enable faster playing.

It has a very clear, crisp and strong sound, with very good dynamic range (from quite soft to as loud as an Wheatstone Aeola). A good response and action (riveted). The metal reeds are of great quality as they respond even better as the metal ended Aeola Wheatstone I have (and as good as the wooden ended Aeola). But concertinas made for H. Boyd were always of the highest quality.

It comes with the original leather box (not in best shape), but better use a new box (as I do for all my concertinas).

My asking price is 2200 euro. The price includes registered air mail shipping for all destinations (+ donation to Cnet if sold here).

I include 4 photographs, and if desired I could make a sound file.

 

[Alan3939]

I have too many concertinas ( ), and one has to go. So I am looking for a good home for the following:

Top quality English concertina. A metal ended extended (56 buttons) treble Boyd Lachenal new model. Series number 41487 (ca. 1905). Note that this is not a tenor treble, the extra notes (extension) are in the upper registers.

It is in concert pitch.

A few improvements were made on this concertina. It has now completely new riveted action (made by Wim Wakker in 2003), and a new 6 fold bellows (made by Wim Wakker in 2006), instead of the original somewhat rigid 5 fold bellows. There are two (one on either side) air buttons.

There are four tiny holes on the sides to fasten wrist straps if desired (which I have filled and closed, but can be opened again if one uses wrist straps). A very small chip of the veneer has come of (see photograph).

Compared to other concertinas the Lachenal new model has buttons which are not as high elevated and seem to be a fraction closer to each other, which should enable faster playing.

It has a very clear, crisp and strong sound, with very good dynamic range (from quite soft to as loud as an Wheatstone Aeola). A good response and action (riveted). The metal reeds are of great quality as they respond even better as the metal ended Aeola Wheatstone I have (and as good as the wooden ended Aeola). But concertinas made for H. Boyd were always of the highest quality.

It comes with the original leather box (not in best shape), but better use a new box (as I do for all my concertinas).

My asking price is 2200 euro. The price includes registered air mail shipping for all destinations (+ donation to Cnet if sold here).

I include 4 photographs, and if desired I could make a sound file.

 

[Alan3939]

I'm in the US (sorry - lol). how much is that in USD?

[JimLucas]

I'm in the US (sorry - lol). how much is that in USD?

According to the current rate (1.4406) on this web site, €2200 is within a dollar of $3170. Your bank's conversion rate will likely differ, because they'll maintain a buy-sell spread (different rates when they're buying than when they're selling a non-dollar currency, so they make a profit in both directions) and because the rate usually changes slightly from day to day (it's negotiated by traders, not set by legislators). They may also tack on other sorts of fees.

 

Add in import duties (hopefully none, if you can document that it's more than 100 years old) and shipping costs, and I'd guess that you'd be looking at a total cost of $3300-3500.

But that estimate is not legally binding.

[chiton1]

Now I know why Jim Lucas has become a Ineluctable Opinionmaker

But to try to answer your questiion. According my Universal Currency Converter 2200 euro equals 3153 USD (at today's rate = 1-1-2010). I will put low value on the instrument when sending it so to avoid import duties, and shipping is free as I stated.

If you make a bank transfer your bank will charge you for that, but these question you have to ask your bank, they should be able to tell you how much a bank transfer of 2200 euros will cost you.

[JimLucas]

I will put low value on the instrument when sending it so to avoid import duties,...

I would recommend against that, for the following reasons:

• The concertina should be insured in shipping. The declared value for Customs cannot be significantly less than the insured value, or you'll potentially be subject to charges of fraud or smuggling, and the instrument could be confiscated.
  
• Even if you don't insure it, if US Customs suspects and can subsequently give evidence that you have significantly understated the value, fraud and smuggling charges again become possible.
  
• Besides, items more than 100 years old are officially "antique" and free of import duty. The estimated age on your instrument is 105 years, so you wouldn't be saving anything by understating its value.
  

...and shipping is free as I stated.

Transatlantic shipping, too? Very generous of you.

[Dirge]

 

[*]The concertina should be insured in shipping. The declared value for Customs cannot be significantly less than the insured value, or you'll potentially be subject to charges of fraud or smuggling, and the instrument could be confiscated.

[*]Even if you don't insure it, if US Customs suspects and can subsequently give evidence that you have significantly understated the value, fraud and smuggling charges again become possible.

 

 

I was talking to the spares officer for the Morgan OC who has to ship lumps of metal everywhere at times. He said that a freight forwarder he used to use regularly (ie a professional in the business) had told him not to worry about declaring a low value on strange things. He said that what it came down to was that the customs man had to believe he could get a significantly higher price at the local auction than had been declared in order to justify seizing something. They weren't going to fiddle about going to specialists when it came to getting rid of seized goods, and that worrying about an antique engine was more trouble than it was worth to them; better to concentrate on electrical goods and new items.

 

I haven't had a good reason to investigate this further but it sounded fair to me; and isn't the sensible insurance figure its worth to the owner, rather than it's market value, so they need not be the same?

 

I suspect concertinas are pretty close to Morgan 3 wheeler engines when it comes to speciality/obscurity!

[JimLucas]

• The concertina should be insured in shipping. The declared value for Customs cannot be significantly less than the insured value, or you'll potentially be subject to charges of fraud or smuggling, and the instrument could be confiscated.
  
• Even if you don't insure it, if US Customs suspects and can subsequently give evidence that you have significantly understated the value, fraud and smuggling charges again become possible.

I was talking to the spares officer for the Morgan OC who has to ship lumps of metal everywhere at times. He said that a freight forwarder he used to use regularly (ie a professional in the business) had told him not to worry about declaring a low value on strange things. He said that what it came down to was that the customs man had to believe he could get a significantly higher price at the local auction than had been declared in order to justify seizing something. They weren't going to fiddle about going to specialists when it came to getting rid of seized goods, and that worrying about an antique engine was more trouble than it was worth to them; better to concentrate on electrical goods and new items.

...

I suspect concertinas are pretty close to Morgan 3 wheeler engines when it comes to speciality/obscurity!

• Perhaps similar in specialty/obscurity, but I suspect that handling and storage of a concertina is much less trouble.
  
• Did you get this advice recently? I would think that these days eBay could be considered "the local auction"... in the US, if not in NZ.
  
• My understanding is that in the US the purpose of seizure is not to make a profit, but to punish those who try to evade the law, thus the "significantly higher price" criterion wouldn't apply. It's somewhat a game of chance, but some (not all) Customs agents (and other government officials, for that matter) can be viciously self-righteous when applying "the law".
  
• Also, it sounds to me as if the freight forwarder and the Morgan spares officer feel that they can afford an occasional loss/seizure and simply replace it with a fresh shipment, "off the shelf". I don't think that applies to either party in the sale of most vintage concertinas, including the one that started this thread. Once again, I'll quote an old song: "A man should never gamble more than he can stand to lose."
  

 

...and isn't the sensible insurance figure its worth to the owner, rather than it's market value, so they need not be the same?

Sensible to the owner, perhaps, but I don't know of any insurance company that will insure an item for significantly more than its market value. From their perspective, that's very bad business practice. And I'm sure the Customs agents know this.

[Greg Jowaisas]

Before I remind everyone of thread drift here is one customs scenario to consider:

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9032&st=0&p=89727&fromsearch=1entry89727

 

I don't enjoy gracing the custom's/government's/tax man's hand with any extra money for my concertinas but I have resigned myself to thinking of it as a cost of doing business; or a necessity in furthering my hobby; or the only way I have of getting a neat instrument from a foreign country. In the end you personally have to decide if saving a hundred dollars (2.6% customs for U.S. citizens) is worth the extra anxiety and risk of playing games with the customs officials.

 

The VAT percentage is much more significant. Theoretically you get taxed less elsewhere. I know it doesn't ease the pain.

 

Nonetheless, Chiton's box looks like a good one and it has the Boyd imprematur. It has rivet replacement action and was refurbished under the auspices of Wim Wakker. If you think the selling price is fair and this is the box for you then you should not let an extra $100. stop you. One man's opinion.

 

Greg

Edited January 2, 2010 by Greg Jowaisas

[Dirge]

 

• Perhaps similar in specialty/obscurity, but I suspect that handling and storage of a concertina is much less trouble.
  
• Did you get this advice recently? I would think that these days eBay could be considered "the local auction"... in the US, if not in NZ.
  
• My understanding is that in the US the purpose of seizure is not to make a profit, but to punish those who try to evade the law, thus the "significantly higher price" criterion wouldn't apply. It's somewhat a game of chance, but some (not all) Customs agents (and other government officials, for that matter) can be viciously self-righteous when applying "the law".
  
• Also, it sounds to me as if the freight forwarder and the Morgan spares officer feel that they can afford an occasional loss/seizure and simply replace it with a fresh shipment, "off the shelf". I don't think that applies to either party in the sale of most vintage concertinas, including the one that started this thread. Once again, I'll quote an old song: "A man should never gamble more than he can stand to lose."
  

 

...and isn't the sensible insurance figure its worth to the owner, rather than it's market value, so they need not be the same?

Sensible to the owner, perhaps, but I don't know of any insurance company that will insure an item for significantly more than its market value. From their perspective, that's very bad business practice. And I'm sure the Customs agents know this.

In order: 1) It undoubtedly is harder to move a Mog engine arround, although I lift mine on and off by myself. 2) Yes, recently. Ebay is your guess. Mine isn't, but either way the point is that if the officer concerned doesn't know the item will sell for noticeably more than the declaration he lays himself open to accusations of incompetence at least so he needs to be pretty certain of his ground if he is out for an easy life, like normal folk! 3) You really have no idea about Morgan engines, Jim! (Not that you never claimed otherwise, I would add) A V twin Morgan motor is worth several thousand pounds; and although you can buy a repro you'd be lucky to find one on anyone's shelf. The idea of being ready to lose one in the post and buy a replacement off the shelf 'like that' is one I shall save for company sufficiently 'anorakish' to appreciate it!

 

As I said, I was told this by people who should know. I haven't needed to look into it hard because I haven't needed to ship anything, but it made sense to me, so I'm not arguing, just offering a line of thinking to investigate. Last time I posted stuff of value internationally it was components so it went as 2 parcels, each under dutiable value; so send the ends of the 'box separately? (And one end would be a very good example for you of something with a legitimately much higher value to it's owner than it's open market one)

[chiton1]

I am declaring low to very low values on the books I sell for about 17 years now (many to the US), and not one was ever seized. This for books that are sometimes worth more than the average vintage concertina.

Do you think that there is one customs officer who knows if this metal ended Boyd Lachenal is worth more than a beautiful mahogany Lachenal with bone buttons?

Lets put it this way; I will do whatever the customer wants...

Edited January 2, 2010 by chiton1

[JimLucas]

I am declaring low to very low values on the books I sell for about 17 years now (many to the US), and not one was ever seized. This for books that are sometimes worth more than the average vintage concertina.

Do whatever you want, but it seems silly to me to undervalue an instrument on which the customs charge is zero, by virtue of it being more than 100 years old. Especially since confiscation is not the only possible penalty, nor is it always invoked. Substantial fines can be levied for attempted evasion, even if the applicable tax was zero.

 

Do you think that there is one customs officer who knows if this metal ended Boyd Lachenal is worth more than a beautiful mahogany Lachenal with bone buttons?

Considering how many Customs officers there are in the US, it wouldn't surprise me to discover that there are several who know the difference. I used to know one who was a collector and player of bagpipes (especially uilleann pipes) and an expert on many esoteric items. In fact, I think some of their agents are employed specifically as experts in particular fields, from fine art to medical equipment.

[chiton1]

I am declaring low to very low values on the books I sell for about 17 years now (many to the US), and not one was ever seized. This for books that are sometimes worth more than the average vintage concertina.

 

 

Do whatever you want, but it seems silly to me to undervalue an instrument on which the customs charge is zero, by virtue of it being more than 100 years old. Especially since confiscation is not the only possible penalty, nor is it always invoked. Substantial fines can be levied for attempted evasion, even if the applicable tax was zero.

 

If there are no charges there can not be any fine (even if the value is not correct) if I am not mistaken......

 

Do you think that there is one customs officer who knows if this metal ended Boyd Lachenal is worth more than a beautiful mahogany Lachenal with bone buttons?

Considering how many Customs officers there are in the US, it wouldn't surprise me to discover that there are several who know the difference. I used to know one who was a collector and player of bagpipes (especially uilleann pipes) and an expert on many esoteric items. In fact, I think some of their agents are employed specifically as experts in particular fields, from fine art to medical equipment.

 

OK I will be carefull when sending bagpipes, but I would be highly surprised if there is an officer with an expert knowledge of concertinas. Books are much easier to evaluate but they do not bother. I think you are over estimating their officers.

[s2maur]

I am declaring low to very low values on the books I sell for about 17 years now (many to the US), and not one was ever seized. This for books that are sometimes worth more than the average vintage concertina.

Do you think that there is one customs officer who knows if this metal ended Boyd Lachenal is worth more than a beautiful mahogany Lachenal with bone buttons?

Lets put it this way; I will do whatever the customer wants...

 

Chilton,

 

A word of caution: This is not a private forum and some admissions are better left unstated.

 

Steve

[chiton1]

So big brother is watching me?......

I will say nothing more, from now on my lips are sealed.