kevin toner
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Posts posted by kevin toner
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Hi Kevin,
I live in NYC and it is constantly noisy here. Even in my somewhat quiet basement where I record, I can hear the trucks accelerate from the stop sign at the corner... and you can too if you listen closely to my CDs. Kinda sucks, if you know what I mean, and I guess you do from your description of your suffering. For me though, even though I hear it, I just ignore it and it simply goes away. That's how it works for me. Sure, I notice the noise after spending a week in the country where this constant urban bombardment of vibration is simply absent. Outside of the city, real silence can be almost deafening. I know a man who lives alone out there, he runs his TV all day and night just for the company and to drive the silence away.
When I come home to the city after being away, I really hear how distracting and unpleasant the sound scape is... then in a few days... I just stop noticing. It becomes background noise and I just don't hear it. I think you must be suffering from a hyper sensitivity to this sound pollution coupled with the lack of an ability to tune it out. How horrible for you! I suggest a relocation to a quieter abode.
Also, I would appreciate it if you could stay on topic.
Tell me more about silent practice. Is it really totally silent? If so, how do you know if you are pressing the correct buttons or not? Late at night I sometimes try to play almost silently (so as not to disturb the sleeping folks within earshot) but find it rather unsatisfying. The bellows is so much about how I play. Using just buttons seems... crazy!
Hi Jody,
Yesterday was the first day, in a year, not to induce a thump during shop opening times despite the shop fully opening and closing as normal – in fact the last door slam (1 of 3 that got progressively louder and significant over 5 minutes or so at 6pm), as powerful as it was, hadn’t come with a corresponding floor bounce thump.
Today however the thumps are back in action and are worst when I’m grounded in this writing position. If standing it’s not as unnerving! So whatever caused it to stop yesterday, I hope it returns, because I write in the middle of the room quite a lot. If I’m lying down in the other room during the day with all the doors open I can sense the thump from a distance too. At the moment there’s around 1 per every 5-10 minutes at least... Dare I play concertina in the middle of the floor. [ps: after a half hour of this it appears to have disappeared again - great, now I can focus editing this...]
As for hypersensitivity:
I wouldn’t rule it out. However, I’ve tried a drug that was said would help combat the hypersensitivity, which was rather pointless and made me feel tired and didn’t in fact dispel any of the agitation caused by the NP.
I may perhaps have Hyperacusis, but it is not obvious generally or from recent hearing tests. I’ve to go back to the doctor if I ever get a sense that the ambient outside noise sources are markedly louder than normal, which might be construed as a form.
An instance did actually happen last Easter Monday, after I awoke, when I was quite taken aback by the seemingly remarkable loudness increase emanating from typical sources. I went out to detect where an unacceptably nagging hiss was emanating from (at circa 7am? not much later) and arrived at the extract fans around the lane from me on the back of a multi-storey office block. When I got to it a horrendously loud double-decker swished past at the other end, which indicated that the extract wasn’t loud at all – it was simply sensitivity. On my way back to my flat that very same bus roaring its way round its route passed my street further down had once again reminded me that I was suffering from sensitivity here. I could sense it once again 5 days later when visiting a relative not far from an expressway, which I could of course hear from 1K away on my approach. By the time I got an appt - to check/test for anything - my hearing had come back to normal. The consultant updated my notes so that I wouldn’t be held off for so long again if it reoccurred.
I’m like you I think: I forget about it and it goes away! I’m no stranger to living beside noise – try being a neighbour to shipyards (as I did in the mid to late 1990s) – where your windows are practically in the yard; or beside an expressway to one of the busiest (if not the busiest tunnel) in Europe – where your gable was created to make way for the expressway/tunnel route, which swept around the flat (Trust me: to move here when the carriageway finally made its connection to the M8), which I did from 7 years old. Before that I stayed in 3 Drive Road (from 1 years old) which greeted most of the tunnel traffic before I moved – figures eh! If you type/key in “Govan” on Google Maps you’ll instantly see the terribly dangerous roundabout that faced my wonderful tenement flat and claimed a corner of the impressive Elder Park at the 2 to 5 Drive Road block. [trivia: formerly aka Mansion Gdns; and Royal Terr. too prior to Govan’s annexation in 1912 into Glasgow, which of course already had a Royal Terr.]
Our subway is also particularly loud in Glasgow compared to most. So if I was sensitive to noise, you wouldn’t see me dead in there.
In fact, I am naturally insensitive to noise, I think perhaps because of the loud surroundings in my life to date.
Life’s a mystery, eh!
You're right on silence: it is also apparently not good for Hyperacusis if you have it.
In conclusion: I think I've had a mere couple of instances and that what I'm suffering from generally is slightly different from this. I will let you know otherwise if a diagnosis should come to light though.
I'll listen out for the background NP on your recordings!
You asked about 'silent playing': I was doing a form of this last night (i.e. No2 - where fingering is the paramount priority). There are of course 3 types.
1) button depressions nothing else; and
2) ditto except with bellowing to engage a sense of mechanically operating/activating the instrument to feel for notes whether or not aired; and
3) ditto except with bellowing to the desired quietness without cutting out.
I don't know which of the first 2 my Granddad was referring to, probably both. My Granddad was probably referring to all 3 in fact as his quiet playing/fading techniques were as impressive as his standard playing. I don't ever remember him doing long passages of quietness, but when he ever did (and where the environment allowed) it was indeed impressive to hear.
Thanks again Jody
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Gary - I downloaded Frank Butler's tutor the other day. I had started looking at it but didn't get very far since I didn't have an instrument yet. I also got a copy of the old Alistair Anderson tutor "Concertina Workshop" as another resource. I reckon between the three of them, I'll find enough helpful hints for learning as well as a larger selection of beginner tunes to work with.
My Granddad passed on the Frank Butler one to me in the early 1990s. Shortly before the mid 1990s I acquired the Richard Carlin one. I still have both, although the Butler binding has loosened off through use. I concur on Butler, but I'd also recommend Carlin's guide as an intermediate companion.
Even after advancing with Carlin's I revisited Butler's to my surprise. I haven't seen Anderson's so cannot comment
Funnily my cousin recently acquired a concertina, which I've not seen/heard yet, but for his birthday recently I passed him a copy of the "Handbook For English Concertina" by Roger Watson. I'd acquired this from my family relatively recently and I hadn't bothered to scrutinise it (as a tutorial book) before passing it on. It looked good at a glance, but can anyone say how Watson's compares with Butler's or Carlin's?
Welcome to the forum TennEC
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...That’s how I now have to read the opening line from “Brother can you spare a dime?” 1935, i.e. because of seeing or imagining such aforementioned superficiality on my commute and ergo beyond...
...who once and probably still do have a connection with the famous friendly society who once owned the building between the halls and mine; and probably much of the block before selling off...) who through their connections might possibly have given the flat over to the occasional migrant student or worker? Churches do network globally so I wouldn’t be surprised.
I’m probably barking up the wrong tree though!
Interestingly, that very same friendly society still appears to be addressed here at where the supposed travel agents above the restaurant were!
I’m saying nothing, if these are the people behind these onslaughts. Even if I wanted to ask, who would I say “please stop the purgatory” to, which thousand or so of them?...
Friendly socs are naturally as you might imagine my top suspect, although veritably my [perhaps cheek-in-tongue] imagination. My biggest obstacle in steering away from this is having the queen catalogue totally embedded into the back of my brain, firstly unintentionally as a teen. Let me explain as below. I’ve also raised BCYSaD above as being related to my point. There was curiously no popular recordings of that song after its first popular releases in 1935, i.e. until it became a standard in the 1970s.
[but first, a little on my Queen knowledge: In early-middle-ish ’76, when 5 years old, my mum asked me from the top 100 in a record store, ‘which one do you want then?’ I fought of course to have the “one with those 2 very long words”, by then at probably around No. 60 or so, which I seemed to disown as I’d forgotten that I wasn’t getting that same captivation that the famous video brought. I’ve long considered this record to be my mum’s until she reminded me of that escapade in later years. She’d of course reinstated my faith in Queen during 1977 when she’d bought the single WAtC despite being a more dance orientated mum, i.e. when I think I wore out the B-side with the bouncing of my stomp occasionally – the best/toughest thing I thought since “I'm the Leader of the Gang (I Am)” by Glitter in 1974, which my aunt had kindly bought for fun I think and left behind – lucky me! That was the last of queen for me until 1984 when I felt compelled to invest [gradually] in their entire catalogue, i.e. until “Made in Heaven”, which I was initially reluctant to buy because of its long delay after the frontman’s death in 1991. I bought all their songbooks too except unfortunately half haven’t been returned to me since lent or left with others. I’d actually rediscovered their recordings to be quite brilliant despite a long hiatus enjoying their songs through playing the songbooks on guitar/voice.
Something shared between the 1930s and Queen, I feel, is something that I call the ‘silly-song’!
The war killed those off with doo-wop etc. ; and then came Dylan etc. to bring in complexity again, albeit a complexity that I’ve never been able to comprehend despite appreciating his sound. I think I get why he’s called the best. But for me, I prefer the ‘silly-song’ songwriters’ complexities. Societally speaking, I may be alone there, in the UK, where Queen have generally been considered uncool, despite inventing Hardcore - I’d say a decade apart prototypically - years before even Punk surfaced. They’ve really not sold more than 300M but much more – just think every queen album was in Argentina’s top 10 at around wartime between Argentina and UK. “Love of my Life” was in the Brazilian singles charts 2 years, but you only ever hear how it fared [slightly less successfully] in the Argentine charts. These facts surely mean kids not lending their records and having to buy their own – Wow! Strange facts can be found here – verified though, I’d say so, watch LoML sung live e.g.in Sao Paulo or Rio where Freddie doesn’t even have to sing a note, while the foreign diction exceeds that of our own.
http://www.aussiequeens.com/stats/4%20Queen%20Facts%20and%20Figures.html
Sorry for the interlude on my Queen perspective – Incidentally, some Queen songbook stuff is concertina compatible, where the transcriber’s have fleshed out some of the notation, but generally speaking it is unfortunately written with single notes albeit luscious guitar chord stipulations/tabs
Enough about Queen for the moment]
Now back to my storyline:
But I’m going to cite simply one of the several queen examples of where I read Friends (as pertaining to something synonymous with Friendly Societies, i.e. the one beside me in particular definitely as the very first and foremost perhaps...) albeit could you blame me {ps plus one from Mercury as Duetist with Caballe]?
One other word that correlates between Queen and the 1930s and perhaps some of the earlier music hall material that might signify a similar synonym of a word is the use of the star, which I’ll get to when I reach Star Dust in my 1930s songbook.
Right Friends, here we go!
PAL = FRIEND (Brother can’t you remember they called me AL it was AL all the time Buddy Don’t you remember ’m your PAL, Brother can you spare a dime)
"We are the Champions" (My FRIENDS)
[ps: and finally "Barcelona" by Mercury/Caballe, when he was in his fittest state definitely "...if god is willing (x3), we will meet again some day" ergo perhaps a reference to a possible performance to launch the Bahrcelona Olympics. In my imagination this equates as friends being associative to god, not God per se but the religion on the ground doing the groundwork, because of the last line in the song "... if god is willing, FRIENDS until the end"
Of course as per my above quote there is actually a relationship between the Soc and Church historically and probably continually.
Given that Mercury wrote "Is this the world we created" perhaps referencing the inequality in the world inter alia several other songs questioning the distribution of earnings, perhaps whether his or performers in general[Cobain did say "Rape me, My FRIENDS, I'm not the only one" in "Rape me"!; then my imagination would point towards Mercury perhaps thinking that if his taxes were straying towards the once philanthropic Friendly Socs (?) Che[e]cks out for me anyway although everyone's different [i do however remember reading that policies from Friendly Societies were not subject to financial scrutiny in the normal way because they were run by their benefactors, such as family orientated businesses, which might be why they've been so popular] - I may be wrong! ;
So I imagine that these lines in Barcelona were a warning saying : unless religion/friends change their way (ergo "is/are willing") then he'll not be turning up to sing when the games actually come around, whether by contracting Aids or [here's a suggestion] Hunger strike! Within those 4 years Mercury went from his fittest state to his weakest.
Why not?, again I say in an imaginative sense: goalposts have been moved by big money-making machine concerns in the past vis-a-vis such 'silly-song' lyrics. For example, not long after Queen were starting to become popular, the English First Division decided to name change to Premier division the line " boars of the 1st Div" as one of the several 'slurs' in the song "Death on Two Legs" 1975, which was when Queen were not being remunerated by their management force.
Perhaps this Olyimpics [or the next Commonwealth Games in my city in 2014]: we can "...let the songs begin, let the music play..."
Apologies if my imagination sounds confusing, it is my own personal imagination after all, but please feel free to borrow any of it if you've been stuffed by anything similar due to your surroundings, although I'd doubt it. Perhaps could happen in NY (?)
If my imagination had any truth in it, then we'd be as well to make our country truthfully communist rather than have a communism lurking under the capitalism.
Calling all Political Scientists!
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I thought I'd share a couple more of these incoherences, given my current dabbling in such curiosities.
[for the record, I'm totally on top of it all, despite the noise officer fleeing and not ever getting back to me on the thumps - yes, the same noise officer who dealt didn't deal with the above [deeply disturbing] kebab shop alarm amongst other things. Nothing surprising there, eh!
I have a place I can sit where it doesn't go through me - phew!
I think the floor bounces, which occurred all day sporadically today on average every 10-15mins or so, is too much for one human. I suspect some kind of machinery in the shops basement is perhaps to blame as it does occur during that particular shop’s hours only. I’m guessing this as I put my ear around many surfaces to try and catch an instance, but what I heard sounded extremely powerful but too distant to be touching my actual floor or walls.
I will of course keep up my ear detectors until I get warmer, which is why I’m suspecting it’s a basement source for the moment. I believe that shop has two basements as I’ve seen staff enter the close and because they look like they’ve got an in-shop basement too.
I may be wrong, but it’s seems a little too obvious to me.
There is of course an historical connection with the upstairs neighbour and the shop staff below, which has dwindled in recent times. Who knows what can happen if you’ve been sandwiched between such people. I’m curious how shop staff can even afford such luxury as I struggled to acquire a mortgage on one of these flats on a reasonably paid professional wage in 2006 (5 years after renting).
Never make a dime that way (well looky here,_) He never heared a word I say![/i] from "Lazybones". I heared him though! The Ted Lewis version is quite natty in spite of being improvised.
Paul Robeson of course sing “... better mind the word I say!” rather than retreat to “...never heared the word I say!”
The last 3 consecutive (short term) upstairs neighbours or so have in fact been the first, in the last 6 or so, not to have some kind of apparent connection with the shop or its staff, which became less obvious per neighbour change.
The local church (who share halls to the rear) is of course a rendezvous point for incoming international students (or so it wants to be) as per its flashing signs on the high street once to that effect. Perhaps it is they (who once and probably still do have a connection with the famous friendly society who once owned the building between the halls and mine; and probably much of the block before selling off...) who through their connections have given the flat over to the occasional migrant student or worker? Churches do network globally so I wouldn’t be surprised.
I’m probably barking up the wrong tree though!
Interestingly, that very same friendly society still appears to be addressed here at where the supposed travel agents above the restaurant were!
I’m saying nothing, if these are the people behind these onslaughts. Even if I wanted to ask, who would I say “please stop the purgatory” to, which thousand or so of them?
Now, back to my coherent self once again, until something new again crops up to distract oneself!
As a noise officer once rightly asserted recently "no one has a right to silence"!
"If you can't beat them join them" Where's my bagpipes then, might as well play something I can hear properly!
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My 2 cents worth...
I play Jefferies Anglo instruments mostly and these are known as screamers. When I play in small groups or to accompany myself singing, I have to hold back and play as quietly as possible. This means not only minimum bellows pressure but as simple an accompaniment as possible and sometimes a simplified melody as well. On the other hand... in a noisy bar session I can certainly be heard on my Jefferies, with lots of buttons going and the bellows pumping... I make an awful racket if I want to.
In general, quiet playing is harder than loud, as the concertina seems to "like" being played loudly. As has been mentioned, the better instruments have a greater dynamic range with an extended range into the quiet end. My Morse C/G is a mid level hybrid and it's quite loud too. I had to send it back when I first got it, to get the voicing equalized for the quiet end of things. They were very happy to do the job at the Button Box and now it plays quite well. My point here is that any concertina can benefit from expert set up.
Playing quietly on concertina is a skill that I think of as advanced technique but very good to learn early on. Beginners, at first... your fingers and bellows have to learn where to go. Only then can you work on dynamics.
Quiet playing is well worth learning how to do, but I don't think it comes naturally on the Anglo concertina especially, and it takes work and confidence to accomplish. I keep on working on this aspect of playing to this day. Well worth the effort too, as quiet playing extends the dynamic range of any concertina from entry level to the best. I suggest that you not worry about some few low notes not speaking too well at low volumes and practice playing as quietly as possible. That's what I do as an experienced player and it serves me well.
Indeed a skill,
Slightly on the same track: my granddad said playing silently was one of the stipulated ‘tina exercises from his band master uncle.
One quite night recently, a couple of weeks ago, I decided to play, but not air in the normal way.
I lost voicing at times but I was simply practising fingering not bellowing for the stipulated dynamics in the score.
What I discovered was a strange reluctance of the traffic not to become exacerbated along with the ‘tina.
When I decide to up the volume, for proper bellowing and dynamics, I found that it would eventually start to cause the [at least a couple of block’s worth] fairly distanced traffic to growl on reverb.
For the next 30min I enjoyed quietly reverting back to near silent fingering practise to enjoy open windows - with un-growling traffic - to, mainly and firstly, respond to the prevalent clamminess and enjoy a perspiration-free practise.
Yes, it’s a good routine, but beware that it’s at the expense of dynamics practise.
Back to my discovery on the above ratio (non-aired/aired tina : quite/loud traffic) !
Once warming into the former part of the equation given the relief from an apparent drop in the effect from noise pollution, something odd occurred.
Apologies - once again for my following elaboration -but this subject incidentally triggers a previous conversation on noise pollution:-
A [yes, decommissioned] alarm then went off that was so low a level but annoyingly persistent just above the quietened traffic. I thought to myself that maybe this is to blame for (or plays a part in) the exacerbated traffic noise – really don’t know (?) but when I tried to source it at ground level - with difficulty because of the louder traffic – I eventually spotted it looking like it was on its last legs but was diagonally opposite me and directly across from funnily un-annoyed pub smokers. They of course wouldn’t complain because of the veritable silence compared to the (120db at least) band rehearsals that had once plagued there before at the very same partly vacated office block during a half-year or so construction-free period during most of 2010. My no tolerance approach now of getting directly in touch with the Alarm Co. helped I think, although a similar alarm noise was coming from the same direction recently from within a near neighbouring shop – just one offs really, a mere handful in the last fortnight across the nearby properties, – phew; and not to mention 2 piercing cherry pickers that can only kindly be dampened with a cloth since the contractor said they’re working with them on tilted surfaces! That’s still a big jump in alarm activity I’d say over months passed.
When the band rehersals eventually stopped with some council help, that’s when - yet once again - horrendous alarms started to sound off practically until near to noisy demolition works for the latter part of 2011. The council were reluctant to assist in the most piercing of these from a lonely kebab shop onto the back of a rly stn about 3 blocks away [ps addendum: Unsurprising that Network Rail did nothing here! even although it’s likely to be their property. The kebab shop (come integrated but vacated upper bar) was owned and let out by British Rail in the 1960s as something similarly strange – if only I knew this then, just over a year ago, I could have directed the inefficient noise control officer to NR as a first port of call. Why Surprising? They can barely keep their distracting shareholders quiet on any of the occasions where I’ve had to concentrate during a journey, e.g. when I was writing this post on my way to Edinburgh yesterday – not to worry, a conductor apologised to me on behalf of some, nothing new here. I assume “shareholders” because these regulars look like they don’t have the doctor’s salaries necessary to travel on such journeys with such ulterior motives – why can’t they enjoy their journeys rather than clog up the trains – I say reform now and especially if I ever have to regularly commute on their service/s again! - apologies, but if they want to run the railroad they’d proudly built, they can’t ask for dimes to be spared from their car buying Brothers! – That’s how I now have to read the opening line from “Brother can you spare a dime?” 1935, i.e. because of seeing or imagining such aforementioned superficiality on my commute and ergo beyond.]. I went to speak with tenants in fear for their own hearing, but hit a brick wall – probably ran sporadically over a 3 month period. Incidentally a bomb scare was in the main news regarding the shop sometime after the worst of the alarm rigmaroles were been over, I think, not much later. The worst alarm by far (in my recent history) [albeit much quieter so as not to phase pedestrians with the almost year-long continuous ee oo ee oo] was from a disused cinema across from an office block redevelop during 2009-10, which was continuous for most of that year – the trouble of course here was locating it, probably half a block away from me [and of course my other 3 compliant neighbours - pity there's only 4 flats on my entire street of mainly offices]. Again I contacted the council: more on behalf of the poor all night security workers who’d be closest to the source for much of it – ie even although that contractor was the bain of my life after a demolition when rebuilding a multi-storey frame with around ten musical hoists all alarmed to the hilt – imagine one of these noise alerted pedestrian traffic lights not ever stopping because of there being so many acting at any one point...
Have to get back to work, will resume conversation another time, sorry for any ensuing incoherences!
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kevin toner:
Whoa, long post! It seems you are lucky to have such a good instrument, and unlucky to have such a frustrating aural environment. I hope you find out what causes the exacerbated noise. Noise pollution is certainly a testing thing to live with...
Thanks for understanding Tripwire : I wouldn't wish it on anyone!
I hope you enjoy your time on the forum. I for one have gleaned much!
All the best
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My model 19 can be forced to match the loudness of accordions and other generally much louder instruments, subject to a likely increase in human error. It’s better not to force and wise to keep in good company instrumentally.
That said, I’ve had the experience of hearing a couple or so impressive ITM band sets [bearing an AC] during a major pipe bands event and the ACist was playing competently and relaxed under the clash of loud bagpipe bands nearby. His sound was also successfully [albeit barely] reaching over all of the other louder instruments within the circle of players, yet I’d contend that the AC had the least volume.
There’s something distinctive about the tone that can help it to overcome such duress, which however necessitates the utmost concentration against the forces of noise/distraction.
Regarding its capacity in quietness:
Take for example a hearing test where some tones can be next to silent:
[i had one recently and fortunately my hearing is okay for my age! ]
My 1912 Aeola model 19 T-T can reproduce an equivalent quietness.
Not kidding!
However, I’ve not been able to enjoy this quietness quality in my flat, generally, due to competing [exacerbated] noises perhaps from residing downtown. It’s indeed a sheer joy when this is occasionally quelled to hear the instrument’s true sound quality and to help ease any learning and practise challenges.
Forgive me for feeling the need now as follows to update [the forum] on my distraction troubles, albeit it’s something good this time to report rather than bad, which I must get off my chest!
It’s still kind of ala related to the thread, and is occasionally a little novel-like, apologies:-
One typical weekday afternoon recently, barely a couple of months ago, I could hardly believe my ears and luck when suddenly no exacerbated noises were coming in-between my ears and the instrument. Yes, traffic was passing as normal etc. and this reminded me of the [call it a relative] tranquillity that was more common for me in the past; and which I thought could certainly strike at anytime but rarely ever did. More follows later.
I don’t know what causes the exacerbation!
Should a neighbouring flat (vacated or otherwise) decide to (above an uninsulated area of flooring) run a boiler continuously, this might not help, if not at the root. This was unfortunately the case for me over my last few New Years. Last summer has been the last straw!
As something is generally exacerbating the mere traffic noise [and I don’t know what], it’s each and everything together I think, I’ve found myself being extremely intolerant of revving traffic and more, especially during practice as the concertina naturally makes it worse. What’s more? Loud house music from either one of the nearest bars or from kids on the nearest pedestrian precinct equally as intolerable as the revving despite their remarkable distance from me.
When I put my ear to some particular areas of walls there is a tremendous humming vibration, which I’m thinking is possibly a transmittance from neighbouring fans appliances and apparatus etc. It’s happening now actually and might be making the adjacent construction humdrum appear louder than it should.
When this [ever] stops is perhaps when that aforementioned tranquillity occurs ergo when the instrument can be heard properly in a more normal setting of un-exacerbated noises. This is when you can enjoy the instruments unique ability to air almost silently.
When I was in that unimprisoned moment recently there was surprisingly normal construction activity and traffic still flowing. Surely some kind of anti-noise apparatus wasn’t working in my favour for a moment.
Obviously I can’t go around all my neighbours and ask them to turn things off! But, if I should ever re-experience the same momentous tranquillity, as recently, then I’ll be sure to log it and check if the strange wall vibration (NB funnily not detectable on the immediate flooring) have stopped in order to deduce whether or not a ‘flanking transmission’ problem is at bay.
Now back to that great incidence of tranquillity:
Around that lunchtime, just before heading off to do voluntary work in the afternoon as I do, I’d been practising “Memories of You” (which I’ve not quite mastered yet) and remember having the overwhelming feeling of a released prisoner, Nelson Mandela springs to mind. I took this feeling all the way on my journey to work later that afternoon; and within about an hour of cataloguing drawings I finally began to settle my emotion...
When I’d got to the bridge on that song, i.e. “How I wish I, could for-get those, hap-py yes-ter, years___, they have left a, rosary of tears___” the self pity had kicked in big-time, except that my tears were dry from feeling too joyous a sadness perhaps.]
Suffice to [or dare I] say, I’ll have to revert in my mind to “they will leave [not “they have left”] until perhaps my next New Year, when I might be able to once again assign the tears to the past tense!
Something spiritual perhaps also to consider is that this bout of silence had actually occurred or rather coincided after making my very first in-roads on the recently prolific self-tuition advances that I’d been making and felt compelled to write about here.
Oh, and the thumps that were occurring during all shop hours below, during 1 March 2012 onward; are back to occurring during merely closing [and sometimes opening] times, yippee:
Here was my diary entry on the thumps for 25 May:
“yes thumps happened today DITTO at 932am opening , but also at closing 17:58__pm? unusually bounce on floor mis-coordinated with one of the door slams !!/still great it's not during all [shop] hours/big improvement since mid May onward...”
Radical construction works (since 2008) will however continue around me I suspect until ironically the recession ends!
Various nearby alarms have also, once again, been testing me recently, i.e. during and outwith construction activity, but thank goodness not at anywhere near the same levels as they’d been doing during the last construction-free period.
Anyone else suffering the same challenges? Perhaps you stay in downtown NY or share a party wall with largely non-residential properties that run all manner of things against the fabric of your property.
If so, please feel free to start a separate post on the topic.
"big improvement since mid May onward..." I.E.TENTATIVELY SPEAKING NOW, I WISH I HADN'T MENTIONED IT!
Anyone got the Equaliser’s number, although I wouldn’t be able to tell him what extent my problem might be societal or personal:
I said novel-like earlier: but now confess a little ‘film-noir’ too at times, so I reiterate the above apology and please don’t feel obliged to read my - albeit rarely occasioned - self pity spiel!
I’ll think I’ll be able to refrain from such spiel after I get this part off my chest. Fingers crossed as I’d rather focus on my repertoire proper.!
So on with the addendum to my original comment above - IT'S NOT A PRETTY PICTURE AND I HOPE I'VE IMAGINED MOST OF IT:-
[i’m heavily suspecting that] it’s near all pointing to the upstairs flat coordinating an assault on my senses, not without the incidental assistances of the downtown environment that I’m always quick to point the finger at:
1) occasional garlic odour during restaurant hours, i.e. in house despite shut windows, albeit [of late] opening windows to get fresh air in take from the front can help dispel it; and dispel the notion that it might all be coming entirely from outside – it’s not clear sometimes where it’s from...; as with ditto
2) putrid and off smoke-smell during opening front windows while managers light up prior to doing business (this occurred for at least 2 out of the 3 shops once, but now appeared to be merely the one [of late]). I’m not discounting the shop’s possible involvement because when I decided to keep my front windows open during Easter Sunday morning – at 7.45am thinking they’d definitely not appear [whilst knowing that they’d been arriving earlier and earlier to - surely unintentionally - counter my window opening times on normal Sundays as well as weekdays], I got the whiff and one of the managers was there of course. Since another incidence a bit later on than this occasion [exact time in diary probably a normal Saturday at 7:30am: 3 EH officers called by after my complaint – my story was told, but too difficult for them to witness let alone comprehend] I’ve since then been more observant from my window and have arrived at the conclusion that I don’t think it’s purely coming from singly that source as I haven’t seemed to detect the smell when my head is fully out the window and they’re blazing away – I’ve not been so shy about opening my windows now an keeping an eye/nose on things. Furthermore the last few smells of stale but not putrid smoke in my room – even as I write – have appeared to not be coming from outside. Come to think of it not one of my last few neighbours has been a non-smoker. I’ve always been far from against passive smoke, even yet, in spite of these happenings;
3) {& yes, inclined to write in diary today as the thumps occurred back as normal – this time during laptop activity), spoke too soon about improvements eh! at 16:39/51/2-3x during 55-59/ although it used to happen also during concertina practice too – and I’m suspecting this will be reinstated; At first I thought that the construction thuds were causing it this time as opposed to downstairs, but it was simply the construction hammering merging with structural floor thumps/movements from above I’m certain - although here I'm sure I caught one out during mid thump - I just felt a slight floor wobble there a sec ago as if someone heavy upstairs jumping on the [structural] floor, ergo perhaps neighbour is trying to coordinate outside and inside noises together..., i.e. not forgetting in tandem with something that's causing the noise vibrations too – the bouncy feel appeared to be attempting to map with the present heavy construction hammering, but I’m now certain that these are indeed separated noises - thanks ears!! The upstairs neighbour wouldn’t answer chaps nor the phone no. given to me recently when the (possible) owner passed it on after an inspection recently of his water leak coming in. The neighbour was speaking loudly foreign with someone else on another speaker phone I think; also at 17:13 the same thing again, he wouldn’t answer - he'd resumed talking with someone else. This reluctance to answer the door [& buzzer] also happened on the previous occasion after noticing the aforementioned leak; although that time there wasn’t any audible signs of anyone talking. The creaks above were however an obvious indicator of someone’s presence. This is in line with previous neighbours in my attempts to sort an emergency e.g. leak or the likes... The 2011 agent told me initially that I’d have to contact them myself this time as they’d no longer managed the flat, i.e. the same agent who’d not asked the owner (RE my last neighbour) to deafen the offending hollow floor area with insulation, which in turn caused me to lose/cover over 2 of 3 spotlights to prevent sound leaks [i.e. mitigate droning appliance/s noise]. I may ultimately have to insulate this part of the ceiling with sandwiched insulation above an extra lowered acoustic ceiling layer/s myself, perhaps in vain to a degree due to there being a structural as well as airborne noise issue]; & finally
4) a couple of nights ago I went to hear [with ear to] the wall to correlate the unusual creaking/dropping/steps to see if it's a real human, i.e. since the identically unusual noise was reminiscent of each of my previous neighbours, but I didn't hear what I was expecting: what appeared was someone not walking around at all (i.e. not genuine footsteps) and the dropping of things occasionally, etc. , but someone see-sawing on something creeky from a slight distance away (perhaps a creaky part of the floor) very uniformly and steadily like ‘exercise machine work’, which was perhaps stressing the joists and making these very unusual irregular and much more apparent airborne step/creak and bang noises that have plagued me since circa 2007?/ i.e. 3-5 neighbours ago. Again, the joist zone here is uninsulated in this area – the agent 2011 said recently that the owner now manages their own affairs – looks like I’ll have to sound proof over the offending area from my end, myself!
5) [but not related to upstairs per se although historically attached]: how would you feel writing this when over the last 1 hour and counting a light hammering has not stopped on my wall [ps stopped after another 0.5 hours] . This work is connected with the aforementioned [on a separate post] fit-out works curiously started on the upper floor above the restaurant, which happens to straddle the North wall of my property, I’ll concede that it could be access flooring and perhaps suspended ceiling works if the latter transfer noise down structurally. It’s more likely to be the flooring works, which would be about from 7ft up on my wall. When will it ever end, with the activity having started slightly after the beginning of March after having spilled the beans with others (on its apparently empty state over the last 2 years albeit appearing occupied with travel agent window posters that‘d been there so long that they’ve left a slight embossing onto the now clear glass), and shortly before recording it here too? I’ll be calling the contractor shortly of course for feedback. This property could have been possibly [melodramatically speaking] one of the bains of my life over the last few months without realising it, but where do I point my fingers: UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT – you name it; superficiality feels rife everywhere around, can I be blamed? Doubtfully! The vibration on the wall could either be from this office; the restaurant below it; the once barbers below the restaurant – I don’t think it’s the flat above me; and neither the shop nor its basement area, below me, in this particular instance.
This is all a great shame as I’m shortly approaching a worthwhile conclusion on my rendition of “Memories of You”, probably a couple of weeks to go before recording trials. I can start to hear Eubie’s intention/playing/rendition coming through on the tina now, perhaps by having observed the you-tube posted live and recorded examples, from the early 1980s and ca’69 respectively. Yet, what I’m playing seems to be closely compatible with the typical 1930s recordings/renditions.
[Add to this unnecessary mayhem, the current factor troubles and constantly crippling fees, Another dissertation-worth of word count required: where £70per month isn’t enough apparently to cover 1k of built up underpayments through ordering expenses I have no say in. Not to mention they won’t even return my calls ever on any of my requests, e.g. on most recently a letter 25 May stating that my Building Insurance is possibly inadequate and requires a professional valuation or to suffer any devalued claims. I suppose not as bad as the time they tried to charge me £500 to photograph my interior for any cracks prior to a 2008/9 redevelopment operation on the next building [multi-storey offices] up in the other direction – why couldn’t they’ve simply refurbished the 1970s block - yet the factor won’t get round to tackling real problems that concern me week after week. As the months pass they keep pacifying me on the phone but no word of action ensues, ergo I’ve evidence of this now across both private and communal matters. Frightening to think they’re one of the more established factors – unbelievable really – who should realise that I’m neither a veritable benefactor nor a happy victim of an unacceptable service!]
Right: back to real [voluntary] work and the songs now that I’ve got that off the chest – phew!
It won’t change though. I’ve basically inherited a nightmare of a flat since being herded here in 2001 after attempting to acquire my own (& 1st) flat: herded because the flat I really wanted at the Merchant City fell through – that particular agent blatantly lied and said I hadn’t turned up at the property on time to view, while I wasted an entire lunch on it; ergo I couldn’t turn down the following offer, on the week after, from a rival estate agent, for the [yet to this day extremely attractive] flat, which I’d later discovered happened to be just fitted out by the architect who’d just merged with the architectural practice I’d just joined after graduating. A good ally I thought until a few weeks down the line when a veritable encyclopaedia of troubles began accruing straight after a pointless defects liability period and way beyond. It hasn’t ever mattered what has ever changed hands around the property – a veritable purgatory has ensued and will never end!
11 years’ discontent and counting, eh!
Leave one alone, one might say! Yeah right, I’m sure that’ll work...
Apologies for this relapse into more than just some mere distractions, but had to get it [an abstract] out of my system for the time being – as indecipherable or comedic as it may seem!
I really should [instead of such] be getting on with those provocative numbers that appear in THE THIRTIES songbook as listed/posted on the ‘Songs/Tunes’ forum.
Could do with a shoulder/neck massage after that update, apologies again!
-
...Further to the above quoted update, please note that Blake in fact gives the EC player another instance of this kind of slurring technique. Yes, I was travelling here rather than slurring previously, who can blame me, as I cross these veritable stepping stones to the hardest slurred notes in the song!
This is basically the most luscious part of the [already very luscious] chorus bridge - so it happens x4 if you sing both verses (rare). Most post-war jazz renditions ignore the verse, but multiply the No. of times the chorus is played, sometimes on a per soloist basis across all the instrumentalists, as so provoking is the piece.
Firstly, before revealing the instance (deserving of a curious notes entry as here) Blake demands [of EC] a slight sharing of the index finger pad on the preceding rhyming bar at Years - nothing to worry.
I've circled this 3 button move above. It's a sequenced double-slur that occurs within the extended semi-breve "Tears". The index finger has to move thus [G4,Db4,C4].
G4 to Db4 (slur) is achieved by doing the same trick as previously mentioned in my recent post at #15, i.e. by using the face of the nail then pivoting onto the next button, however this is a [much more difficult (non-5th)] diagonal instance as you'll see from your layouts, but not to worry as this half of the bridge has been slowed by Blake.
Not out the woods yet - it's a 3 button slur!
Db4 to C4(middle C) is then achieved by then rotating the index exactly horizontally onto its side.
So that happens to be the final difficulty, not without tears______!
For those who'd prefer to travel between these 3 buttons, be my guest, as when I was doing this I hadn't noticed the travelling due to the surrounding chords and because of the agile independence of the index's ability to [as my Granddad called it] cover-up quickly.
All this recent schooling'll put me back merely probably a week. I never thought in my wildest dreams that I'd be articulating this number as stipulated within the tempos.
Eubie Blake - did your transcriber have an EC?
A couple of more supporting observations having practised this sequential slur today eagerly! Yes, it's the way to go, the right choice, but expect 'Tears' unless two things:
1), if you wish this instance to be as easy as the single [A to D] example at the 'ries-of' minim, then expect your index finger's first joint-to-tip length to be a couple more mm greater than the typical inch like mine's; AND/OR
2) faithfully accent the first two minims of the index finger's passage.
The latter removes any noticeable silence from having too short an index finger, especially if applied with extra gusto.
It's not a problem that the last/next note isn't accented by the transcriber since rotating the index onto its side on to the middle C is an effortless operation.
[i therefore ask Blake again: Was his transcriber an EC player(?) I think there might be other examples out there too as suspected during my earlier treble clef endeavours]
I do wish I'd had both advantages (1 & 2) under my belt, but will have to settle for simply the latter, like most players I suspect.
I expect the difficulty to ease with practise! Again, thanks to Blake's transcriber for slowing the phrasing down here!
I believe that finger length develops through learning piano during 'growing-up', if not an old-wife's-tail.
Something extra to dwell on for the hawk eyed among you:
One more observation on this remarkable move, which might lead some of you to [probably romantically] suspect Eubie was his own transcriber - as McHugh was, is as follows based on coincidental images of fingering poses.
[it wouldn't surprise me as there's a certain Blake-ish feel in the formation of the sheet music transcription!
watch here for his own rendition!]
Look closely at his LHS index on this famous 1969 double album lp cover here. It's the only finger he's playing in the ideal pivot position - which is the very finger that has to pull off this very move.
Also if you happen to have Jasen's "Tin Pan Alley" book, which I viewed today at the library you will see a [more updated] similar pose in the other direction at p47 where he's doing the exact same pivot action on a black G# (G#4) thereabouts with his albeit RHS index finger this time.
Add to this a typical shot of his fingers spreadeagled (e.g. as here) and you have a person I'd be envious of ergo with that extra couple of mm or so of finger length.
OK: maybe I've gone too far this time!
Note that in the above topic as underlined and bolded..., I should have also mentioned that with Blake's finger spread and poses as described, evidenced on both hands, he might have been able to easily adjust to playing his composition on either a T-T or standard B-T notwithstanding that the middle C is on the LHS of a T-T and on the RHS of a B-T.
I'd therefore presume (going on these images) that he'd easily have been able to: 1) reach to all the keys shifted up a row on a [standard 56k] B-T; and 2) demonstrate index finger tip-to-joint length and crucial pivoting control on whatever hand.
He'd also have had no problem switching/swapping between the B-T/T-T layouts because of his musicality.
There's of course absolutely no way that Blake [or whoever "MoY"'s transciber was] dabbled as an ECist as we'd have surely known about it by now.
All these observations on "MoY" are, romantically speaking, simply coincidences worth mentioning to help understand the pressing requirements upon the EC. Perhaps it's an example of God (which my Granddad often instead referred to as "a supreme" that indeed must exist) working in mysterious ways.
-
...
...However, anticipate some occasional ghosting and straddling of the treble clef at some bass progressions, where a degree of intermingling occurs due to raising some notes/progressions by an octave.
This is something that the ECist, not pianist, has to concede on such piano scores.
An example follows looking at the same excerpt at "find love" where there is a slur going into contrabass territory (going B2-B1-E1). If this, therefore, progresses B3-B2-E2 then the B3 will ghost since one is already played in the treble clef at that point.
This is why I was glad in being prompted to interpret that thankful blemish here on "MoY" as previously discussed on the Music/Video forum, i.e. to avoid the ghosting of any bass notes in this particular instance to respect the slurring of the treble notes without detriment to an accented Bb3 bass note as explained in my later post below.
...An example follows looking at the same excerpt at "find love" where there is a slur going into contrabass territory (going B2-B1-E1). If this, therefore, progresses B3-B2-E2 then the B3 will ghost since one is already played in the treble clef at that point.
This is why I was glad in being prompted to interpret that thankful blemish here on "MoY" as previously discussed on the Music/Video forum, i.e. to avoid the ghosting of any bass notes.
Let me explain once again the latter example as I can't remember what post I discussed it in.
In fact I see that this dilemma in this instance is not due to raising notes. It's therefore one that affects pianists and ECists.
It's simply perhaps one of those clashes/blunders by the transcriber(?), thankfully raised to our attention c/o a mid 1970s printing machine error (?)
Hoards of other printouts throughout the decades on this number, which I've seen from library, have [wrongly to my mind] interpreted the blemished note as a Bb3, which I conversely consider to be a middle C (C4) to avoid losing the prominence of the accented Bb3 that follows in the next beat on the bass clef, i.e. since the bar is deliberately slurred on the treble clef.
Ergo the blemish was a veritable raison d'etre for helping me explore and uncover the truly intended bass-line.
Another sign that I may be right, which I'll also reiterate, is that this particular bar, being a variant of the first bar, would be best played simply as the dropped thirds that appear throughout the bar - a Bb3 is, therefore even visually, very out of place here (at the blemish).
Perhaps the actual original transcription or Blake's handwriting was misconstrued, which is very odd given the extremely and repetitively articulated nature of the bass-line throughout the entire stave.
Calling all musicologists!
ps: I'll post a little more of this stave in a moment here, so that you can judge for yourselves!
I'll also provide a 1956 print showing the LWMCo's long interpretation of this [surely blundered Bb3] note here!
Had this blemish not been there and I had been strung along with the conventional sheet music, then I might have lost the impetus to progress the bass!
Many on the forum have mentioned how unreliable sheet music transcriptions can be. I must admit (or confess) that I'd easily confide in the conventional LMWCo sheet music if it were not for this rogue Bb3. I'd argue at this stage in my development that such transcriptions are near watertight. I will of course post back on any others that I come across.
Perhaps a final lesson mustered on “MoY” (as follows) having stumbled upon the above topic:
After a quick perusing of the “MoY” score there is in fact simply one instance that involves extremely minimal ghosting, i.e. at a particular low note that is played in octave with its treble counterpart.
There is merely ‘1 of 3’ potential instances in the chorus and it is where a low note (G2, which a T-T has to play as G3) is unslurred at the word “Spite” as shown here. [i’ve overmarked/ticked “OK” at the other 2 instances here where there's no such problem.]
Blake, overall though, has been immensely kind enough (to T-Ts) not to octave the G3 generally (with a G2), by-&-large across the rest of the piece. I however find myself doing a lot of straddling/intermingling with the G2 as a result, but it’s not detrimental and sounds harmonic.
[G2 indeed belongs on the bass clef stave despite the treble clef often borrowing the note for treble progressions – I definitely have no qualms in raising it/these, i.e. provided the adjoining notes can be likewise progressed. If the latter can’t be done, then that’s when I say a B-T is necessary!]
I indeed remain inclined to tackle this song in T-T in lieu of B-T (even if I had a model 16 B-T) as there’s a way around the “Spite” one might [not quite!] say (as follows below); and after all, because the T-T might be significantly lighter and of course is my first instrument.
Albeit a relatively insignificant and unaccented one-off variant bar, it’s easy enough to wean from the treble ‘tying/slurring’ of the chorded G3 notes whilst raising an unslurred G2 minim up to G3 without any detriment or even noticeability.
[i wouldn’t say the same applies for those choosing to interpret the aforementioned blemished note in the conventionally wrong way – as per the above quoted post!]
Here’s how:
Simply ghost the treble G3s [as circled] or in other words release the G3 momentarily before it due to progress onto the next note.
So, definitely deserving of a special mention, but is hardly “spiteful” at the end of the day
Especially if conducting this very minor modification!
There’s indeed though a noticeable difference having tried and adopted the modification!
I’m sure the arranger would have approved.
ps: makes you wonder - that the only modification arguably on the entire score [for a T-T EC] is because of an unslurred note occurring at the word "Spite"!
-
...Further to the above quoted update, please note that Blake in fact gives the EC player another instance of this kind of slurring technique. Yes, I was travelling here rather than slurring previously, who can blame me, as I cross these veritable stepping stones to the hardest slurred notes in the song!
This is basically the most luscious part of the [already very luscious] chorus bridge - so it happens x4 if you sing both verses (rare). Most post-war jazz renditions ignore the verse, but multiply the No. of times the chorus is played, sometimes on a per soloist basis across all the instrumentalists, as so provoking is the piece.
Firstly, before revealing the instance (deserving of a curious notes entry as here) Blake demands [of EC] a slight sharing of the index finger pad on the preceding rhyming bar at Years - nothing to worry.
I've circled this 3 button move above. It's a sequenced double-slur that occurs within the extended semi-breve "Tears". The index finger has to move thus [G4,Db4,C4].
G4 to Db4 (slur) is achieved by doing the same trick as previously mentioned in my recent post at #15, i.e. by using the face of the nail then pivoting onto the next button, however this is a [much more difficult (non-5th)] diagonal instance as you'll see from your layouts, but not to worry as this half of the bridge has been slowed by Blake.
Not out the woods yet - it's a 3 button slur!
Db4 to C4(middle C) is then achieved by then rotating the index exactly horizontally onto its side.
So that happens to be the final difficulty, not without tears______!
For those who'd prefer to travel between these 3 buttons, be my guest, as when I was doing this I hadn't noticed the travelling due to the surrounding chords and because of the agile independence of the index's ability to [as my Granddad called it] cover-up quickly.
All this recent schooling'll put me back merely probably a week. I never thought in my wildest dreams that I'd be articulating this number as stipulated within the tempos.
Eubie Blake - did your transcriber have an EC?
A couple of more supporting observations having practised this sequential slur today eagerly! Yes, it's the way to go, the right choice, but expect 'Tears' unless two things:
1), if you wish this instance to be as easy as the single [A to D] example at the 'ries-of' minim, then expect your index finger's first joint-to-tip length to be a couple more mm greater than the typical inch like mine's; AND/OR
2) faithfully accent the first two minims of the index finger's passage.
The latter removes any noticeable silence from having too short an index finger, especially if applied with extra gusto.
It's not a problem that the last/next note isn't accented by the transcriber since rotating the index onto its side on to the middle C is an effortless operation.
[i therefore ask Blake again: Was his transcriber an EC player(?) I think there might be other examples out there too as suspected during my earlier treble clef endeavours]
I do wish I'd had both advantages (1 & 2) under my belt, but will have to settle for simply the latter, like most players I suspect.
I expect the difficulty to ease with practise! Again, thanks to Blake's transcriber for slowing the phrasing down here!
I believe that finger length develops through learning piano during 'growing-up', if not an old-wife's-tail.
Something extra to dwell on for the hawk eyed among you:
One more observation on this remarkable move, which might lead some of you to [probably romantically] suspect Eubie was his own transcriber - as McHugh was, is as follows based on coincidental images of fingering poses.
[it wouldn't surprise me as there's a certain Blake-ish feel in the formation of the sheet music transcription!
watch here for his own rendition!]
Look closely at his LHS index on this famous 1969 double album lp cover here. It's the only finger he's playing in the ideal pivot position - which is the very finger that has to pull off this very move.
Also if you happen to have Jasen's "Tin Pan Alley" book, which I viewed today at the library you will see a [more updated] similar pose in the other direction at p47 where he's doing the exact same pivot action on a black G# (G#4) thereabouts with his albeit RHS index finger this time.
Add to this a typical shot of his fingers spreadeagled (e.g. as here) and you have a person I'd be envious of ergo with that extra couple of mm or so of finger length.
OK: maybe I've gone too far this time!
-
...An example follows looking at the same excerpt at "find love" where there is a slur going into contrabass territory (going B2-B1-E1). If this, therefore, progresses B3-B2-E2 then the B3 will ghost since one is already played in the treble clef at that point.
This is why I was glad in being prompted to interpret that thankful blemish here on "MoY" as previously discussed on the Music/Video forum, i.e. to avoid the ghosting of any bass notes.
Let me explain once again the latter example as I can't remember what post I discussed it in.
In fact I see that this dilemma in this instance is not due to raising notes. It's therefore one that affects pianists and ECists.
It's simply perhaps one of those clashes/blunders by the transcriber(?), thankfully raised to our attention c/o a mid 1970s printing machine error (?)
Hoards of other printouts throughout the decades on this number, which I've seen from library, have [wrongly to my mind] interpreted the blemished note as a Bb3, which I conversely consider to be a middle C (C4) to avoid losing the prominence of the accented Bb3 that follows in the next beat on the bass clef, i.e. since the bar is deliberately slurred on the treble clef.
Ergo the blemish was a veritable raison d'etre for helping me explore and uncover the truly intended bass-line.
Another sign that I may be right, which I'll also reiterate, is that this particular bar, being a variant of the first bar, would be best played simply as the dropped thirds that appear throughout the bar - a Bb3 is, therefore even visually, very out of place here (at the blemish).
Perhaps the actual original transcription or Blake's handwriting was misconstrued, which is very odd given the extremely and repetitively articulated nature of the bass-line throughout the entire stave.
Calling all musicologists!
ps: I'll post a little more of this stave in a moment here, so that you can judge for yourselves!
I'll also provide a 1956 print showing the LWMCo's long interpretation of this [surely blundered Bb3] note here!
Had this blemish not been there and I had been strung along with the conventional sheet music, then I might have lost the impetus to progress the bass!
Many on the forum have mentioned how unreliable sheet music transcriptions can be. I must admit (or confess) that I'd easily confide in the conventional LMWCo sheet music if it were not for this rogue Bb3. I'd argue at this stage in my development that such transcriptions are near watertight. I will of course post back on any others that I come across.
-
Having perused my 1930s songbook scores regarding the post I made on the other treble/bass discussion last night, I seen an example of a song that I will certainly be leaving to Baritones rather than the tenor treble.
This is "I only have eyes for you", where there is...
Excuse Robbins Music Corp's dyslexic misprint of the year 1934, which could have been easily excused as '43 due to the score's longevity!
-
Having perused my 1930s songbook scores regarding the post I made on the other treble/bass discussion last night, I seen an example of a song that I will certainly be leaving to Baritones rather than the tenor treble.
This is "I only have eyes for you", where there is a singular [often not in octave] contrabass G note (G1) that regularly punctuates the refrain rhythm.
However, I urge the Baritones not to skip this number. It's absolutely ideal with nominal (minimal) re-transcribing - of affected phrases.
Don't worry: the G is absolutely the lowest note despite being extremely frequent within the refrain not in the verse where the notes are all over the place by comparison.
Looking at my excerpt (on part of the refrain) linked here you will in fact see a long G2 at the end (at "too?" and "rare") before culminating in a singular contrabass G1 to end the poco rit phrasing. Don't despair: simply raise the G2 to a G3 then hit your G2 to end the phrase. I think a G2 will be deep enough!
Let me know what you think!
However, anticipate some occasional ghosting and straddling of the treble clef at some bass progressions, where a degree of intermingling occurs due to raising some notes/progressions by an octave.
This is something that the ECist, not pianist, has to concede on such piano scores.
An example follows looking at the same excerpt at "find love" where there is a slur going into contrabass territory (going B2-B1-E1). If this, therefore, progresses B3-B2-E2 then the B3 will ghost since one is already played in the treble clef at that point.
This is why I was glad in being prompted to interpret that thankful blemish here on "MoY" as previously discussed on the Music/Video forum, i.e. to avoid the ghosting of any bass notes in this particular instance to respect the slurring of the treble notes without detriment to an accented Bb3 bass note as explained in my later post below.
-
More progress being experienced, even yet, en-route to fully achieving Blake's "MoY", without doctoring nothing other than raising the occasional note (an octave) into my range.
Inter Alia gaining more comfort from very few final fingering tweaks, there is one last hitch deserving mention on my Curious Notation 'Hall of Fame'!
This here is where Blake/Razaf's notation transcriber has decided to put a G in the way of a (full octave) glissando between Bb & D, i.e. at "Mind" and "Way" in the verses, which we of course must "mind", excuse the [transcriber's] pun.
I've mentioned a few puns already from the perspective of an EC player, but here is one that'll apply to all instruments albeit more pertinent to EC as it really is a note that gets in the way. Especially regarding the fluency of the progression.
Playing this G as a simple unslurred semibreve [and then momentarily reinserting it as part of the glissando] makes the progression astronomically easier on EC.
The progression necessitates 'fall into place fingering' as a priority.
However, I'm going to persevere with the notation as written and 'mind my way' as it were. It's not the first time I've seen this [slip-up?] in notation.
The reason I think it's not a slip-up here is because of the punning one might say! [almost there...!]
ps above strikeout due to oversight - there's actually no slur line leading from the low treble G as previously thought. This means I can now focus on an uninterrupted glissando, yippee
Actually, there's occasionally a grey area where transcribers’ sheet music may imply slurs or otherwise. I've had a quick glance through my book to find such an ambiguity of where a slur might be implied as follows below. I believe such to be more common for the likes of chorded 3rds etc. where one slur curve suffices. Usually the crotchet tails are strung in the same direction for this. With semibreves however there might be greater interpretation required upon the reader.
Thank goodness the aforementioned G note on "MoY" is not such an example, which really would have had an additional curve [slur] line to avoid such ambiguity, but one example that might require reader interpretation is here at "I Only Have Eyes for You" aptly at the words "Find" and "Blun-ders" where indeed the semibreve slurring for B&D is rather vague.
I've however, had another quick swatch through the book and discovered an unusually scrupulous example of slur curve applications, not merely here on every single note of a 4 note chord at "come out!___" in the score of "Ida! Sweet as Apple Cider", but throughout the score’s entirety whether or not the chord note tails have all been joined in the same direction.
Something therefore to make the studying of scores a little more interesting...!
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More progress being experienced, even yet, en-route to fully achieving Blake's "MoY", without doctoring nothing other than raising the occasional note (an octave) into my range.
Inter Alia gaining more comfort from very few final fingering tweaks, there is one last hitch deserving mention on my Curious Notation 'Hall of Fame'!
This here is where Blake/Razaf's notation transcriber has decided to put a G in the way of a (full octave) glissando between Bb & D, i.e. at "Mind" and "Way" in the verses, which we of course must "mind", excuse the [transcriber's] pun.
I've mentioned a few puns already from the perspective of an EC player, but here is one that'll apply to all instruments albeit more pertinent to EC as it really is a note that gets in the way. Especially regarding the fluency of the progression.
Playing this G as a simple unslurred semibreve [and then momentarily reinserting it as part of the glissando] makes the progression astronomically easier on EC.
The progression necessitates 'fall into place fingering' as a priority.
However, I'm going to persevere with the notation as written and 'mind my way' as it were. It's not the first time I've seen this [slip-up?] in notation.
The reason I think it's not a slip-up here is because of the punning one might say! [almost there...!]
ps above strikeout due to oversite - there's actually no slur line leading from the low treble G as previously thought. This means I can now focus on an uninterrupted glissando, yipee
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I've a couple of updates that relate more to the parallel discussion on treble/bass clef practise. However, one of the points involves purely bass. So I'll mention that point here:
I'm currently ironing-out remaining issues on "memories of You" . So far as I iron, I've not had to adjust anything on the sheet music other than to raise the odd note into my range.
So I'm not really ironing-out but teasing out remaining difficulties.
One of these is that, due to having a [highly resonant] risen metal-ended Aeola, I find myself coming to terms much better with the overall piece if I practise the bass clef separately before splicing it into the treble clef work.
The bass is more decipherable to the player this way when embarking on the entirety. This [apt for "MoY" too] also speeds up ones cognisance on what the rhythm/articulations are supposed to be doing.
It's an extra piece of work, but I feel it helps me to understand the piece quicker. I also did this on the aforementioned "MBS" and then quickly perceived that the melody had in fact belonged much more within the bass clef rather than the treble clef.
Now back to my treble/bass clef post where I have a further hitch to add on my developing rendition of "MoY", probably the last hitch out of a recent handful!
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Whew! Kevin. That was a pretty scholarly discussion--maybe a little over me head. But I will have to say the tipping point on these extended instruments may be the physical size. (as in all matters, size does count--maybe here to the negative??) I am hoping one of these years I'll get to one of the gatherings / seminars / squeeze-ins where it might be possible to see a baritone, a t/t and whatever this beast of mine is, in a line up and actually heft them all. I do not find this TED over large to play daily; which was what I feared originally. And in fact my poor Lachenal is getting pretty lonely as it is pretty forsaken. Thanks for the comparisons. I got our my printed notes again from Jim Lucus (with the descriptions of the different "voices") And I have to agree that the term does seem to be baritone-treble for this one's voice. But I've never had a nick name for auto or insturment--so I am liking the TED thing....
I call it 'learn as you go'! and learning to crawl before you walk!
There's quite a difference in weight/lightness between a 48k treble & 56k T-T.
I suspect a 64k B-T will be venturing into the realm of heaviness rather than lightness, whilst I wouldn't know the difference in lightness between a 56k T-T & B-T.
My 60k treble-extended-up (TEU)*, i.e. exactly 1 octave higher than yours excepting a full tone increase to range from range G3 to A7, is marginally lighter than my T-T. Some consider this to be too heavy for a treble/piccolo ranged instrument. Not me, but I concur with this view given the typically featherweight nature of most ECs within these ranges.
ps: regarding the conventional Baritone layout (with middle C on the RHS presumably) Vs the conventional Treble layout (with middle C on the LHS) which I equated earlier with switching handedness on a guitar;
I've one more equally apt analogy: this might be a pianist playing a piano with middle C moved up to the C5 position on the keyboard without moving his/her chair along to compensate.
That said, these analogies are probably irrelevant to an ear player, and/or a robotic re-memoriser, when switching between treble and baritone configurations!
* I would concur with you on TEDs, but doesn't work for TEUs!
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...One more thing is that I haven't been put off my desire to acquire a standard type B-T, despite now knowing it's a different layout from both the T-T (model 19) and its variant B-T (model 16)...
Shelly,
I'm actually in two minds over this now!
If only I had my Granddad's draughts (chequers) prowess! He was the last one to do my T-T justice, before him his dad. Alas, chess is no good here, otherwise I wouldn't fuss about acquiring a standard B-T like your's.
I hasten to think what it'd be like to mentally swap hands.
Probably like going from right hand to left hand guitar work in a way. I can't believe I was actually trying that earlier today on my uke for the first time!
I'd better stick to model 19s and 16s for the time being.
I was wondering about how you might feel starting out on a standard B-T first and having to think in different hands if swapping over to treble proper?
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Shelly,
That little impromptu maths exercise has left me with a better impression of what's available B-T wise.
There's something called a model 16, which is a 64 key B-T that goes down to F2. Now I know how, although don't quote me, it's of course simply because it borrows the T-T layout (unchanged pattern) and then extends the lower range by adding a full extra row of lower buttons. In which case this would bring into play (reading left to right) a G#2,G2,B2,Bb2 on the LHS; and an F#2, F2, A2,Ab2 on the RHS. My particular T-T would therefore have 1 out of these 8 options!
However, seeing is of course believing, can't wait!
The danger this would bring is that it might wean me off the T-T for the majority of songs. I don't think so though, because it'll be a heavy brute I'd suspect. I would therefore play/opt for it if necessary.
One more thing is that I haven't been put off my desire to acquire a standard type B-T, despite now knowing it's a different layout from both the T-T (model 19) and its variant B-T (model 16)
PS: I looked up the 1931 price list and seen that Wheatstone's naming system had been altered from the 1915 list. You'll be pleased to read from the later list that you in fact have a Baritone-Treble, not Baritone. The difference is that the latter are 48 key models and the former are models with 56 keys or upwards.
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"Why Bb2 to modify duplicated Eb3 on EC?"
Another thing in the heading that'll be discouraging discussion is perhaps the use (shorthand) of numbers to explain the key position relative to middle C (C4).
ps: for the avoidance of doubt on this kind of numbering: immediately below C4 is B3 and immediately above C4 is D4. This numbering is based on the piano layout counting from C0 (4 octaves down). I believe this is how vocalist's/pianists number notes and it's therefore possibly the international language (Esperanto) to be using for such discussions.
This makes the title/discussion less wordy, but your call folks!
I thought that I should quote this explanation of how to number notes. Otherwise great confusion ensues, apologies!
I trust that from comparing the layouts you'll see that the T-T & B-T are almost identical, the only difference being that the notes slide up by merely one row. This brings into play (reading left to right) a G#2,G2,B2,Bb2 on the LHS; and a C#3, C3, A2,Ab2 on the RHS. My particular T-T therefore has 3 out of these 8 options! ps This doesn't accord with a previous suggestion that the layouts are the same! Otherwise a 56 key Baritone would have a low F2 and F#2 on the RHS...
Quite possibly, therefore, the layout of a B-T is configured so that the G2 begins on a B-T where a C3 begins on a T-T...
If this is the case, please can you let me know!...
If your TED (B-T) is configured in this way then conversely this will bring into play (reading left to right) a Ab2,A2,C3,C#3 on the LHS; and a G#2,G2,B2,Bb2 on the RHS... Ah, this makes more sense, I see now!
Again, my particular T-T would nevertheless have 3 out of these 8 options!... [Please feel free to confirm this Shelly, but I'm convinced now having done the maths!]
This raises an issue for players, i.e. songs would have to be re-memorised if swapping between the B-T and T-T, something I will most definitely not be doing!...
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Hi Steve, I'll answer here: my 56 key TED follows the written bass clef perfectly ending in the g at the bottom of the written clef (so 2 g's below middle C) I am finding I like this range perfectly ( it also ranges up 3 g's above middle C ) But I was also curious about the range of your tenor/treble? I still do not have these ranges set in my mind. And anyone chime in: what is the "usual" range (of these unusual insturments) of a baritone/tenor??
Hi there, no problem!
This means you indeed have the equivalent of a standard Wheatstone Baritone-Treble (aka simply: a Baritone) as previously thought! Your range is therefore G2 to G6.
The advantage presumably of a B-T over a T-T is that a greater proportion of lower notes will be within easier reach by 1 button-worth's distance, but this might be at the expense of the reach in the other (upward) direction towards the high treble notes. However, I've found lately that the lower rows are not a problem even with thumbs fully through!
The typical range of the 56k Tenor-Treble is from 1 C below middle C (C4), i.e. C3 to C7.
I have a modified key though, which extends my range by one full tone down to Bb2 by skipping a B2 semitone. This is being discussed at another post here as a History forum topic.
Basically, it facilitates playing in certain key signatures.
I have formed the opinion that the T-T is the most comfortable instrument for playing in a wide range (e.g. popular standards/songs) provided that ones' lower-row reaches are mastered.
However, I'm eager to adopt the Baritone for playing (untransposed in their written keys) certain songs that can't be accommodated by the T-T.
For me, the B-T will certainly be my 2nd in priority to the T-T.
You mentioned a 'baritone/tenor' - I presume there's no such thing and that they're called either 'baritones or baritone-trebles' (I believe that there's the same indiscrimination regarding 'Basses or Bass-Baritones').
It's perhaps wrong to refer to them in their hyphenated way or translation!
I've also conversely heard a T-T be referred to as simply a Tenor, again perhaps wrongly!
My understanding from the Wheatstone price-list is that the simple nomenclature of: 1) trebles and 2) baritones with 3) tenor-trebles in between; is perhaps the most valid.
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...Further to the above quoted update, please note that Blake in fact gives the EC player another instance of this kind of slurring technique. Yes, I was travelling here rather than slurring previously, who can blame me, as I cross these veritable stepping stones to the hardest slurred notes in the song!
This is basically the most luscious part of the [already very luscious] chorus bridge - so it happens x4 if you sing both verses (rare). Most post-war jazz renditions ignore the verse, but multiply the No. of times the chorus is played, sometimes on a per soloist basis across all the instrumentalists, as so provoking is the piece.
Firstly, before revealing the instance (deserving of a curious notes entry as here) Blake demands [of EC] a slight sharing of the index finger pad on the preceding rhyming bar at Years - nothing to worry.
I've circled this 3 button move above. It's a sequenced double-slur that occurs within the extended semi-breve "Tears". The index finger has to move thus [G4,Db4,C4].
G4 to Db4 (slur) is achieved by doing the same trick as previously mentioned in my recent post at #15, i.e. by using the face of the nail then pivoting onto the next button, however this is a [much more difficult (non-5th)] diagonal instance as you'll see from your layouts, but not to worry as this half of the bridge has been slowed by Blake.
Not out the woods yet - it's a 3 button slur!
Db4 to C4(middle C) is then achieved by then rotating the index exactly horizontally onto its side.
So that happens to be the final difficulty, not without tears______!
For those who'd prefer to travel between these 3 buttons, be my guest, as when I was doing this I hadn't noticed the travelling due to the surrounding chords and because of the agile independence of the index's ability to [as my Granddad called it] cover-up quickly.
All this recent schooling'll put me back merely probably a week. I never thought in my wildest dreams that I'd be articulating this number as stipulated within the tempos.
Eubie Blake - did your transcriber have an EC?
A couple of more supporting observations having practised this sequential slur today eagerly! Yes, it's the way to go, the right choice, but expect 'Tears' unless two things:
1), if you wish this instance to be as easy as the single [A to D] example at the 'ries-of' minim, then expect your index finger's first joint-to-tip length to be a couple more mm greater than the typical inch like mine's; AND/OR
2) faithfully accent the first two minims of the index finger's passage.
The latter removes any noticeable silence from having too short an index finger, especially if applied with extra gusto.
It's not a problem that the last/next note isn't accented by the transcriber since rotating the index onto its side on to the middle C is an effortless operation.
[i therefore ask Blake again: Was his transcriber an EC player(?) I think there might be other examples out there too as suspected during my earlier treble clef endeavours]
I do wish I'd had both advantages (1 & 2) under my belt, but will have to settle for simply the latter, like most players I suspect.
I expect the difficulty to ease with practise! Again, thanks to Blake's transcriber for slowing the phrasing down here!
I believe that finger length develops through learning piano during 'growing-up', if not an old-wife's-tail.
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...Here’s a list of recent findings as I develop.
1. Listening &/or recalling Granddad playing and discussing;
2. Thumbs fully through straps
3. Hand straps on (starting loose and working towards tighter as dexterity improves – I’ve still got a few notches before I reach the tightness Granddad was at – the mark on the straps are still there and I’m glad I decided to get them back on the concertina): the obvious advantage is increased control but greater discovery/cognisance of the bellows...;
4. Lower shoulders at difficult passages to release stiffness and promote the following:
5. use/experiment with hand positioning before scrunching up shoulders and using unnecessary upper arm work. Vertical & horizontal rotation of the wrist, and door handle action turning from forearm too: can all unlock difficulties of reach. As mentioned above, getting the right leverage can sometimes beat comfortable hand configurations e.g. in my case, if too much demand put on the aforementioned interdependency weakness of the 3rd finger at high tempo arpeggiated chordings;
6. Revisit music score and discover or search for the intention of the writers if it’s there and worthwhile. The value of notes can be over/under-estimated during familiarisation/s especially if a flurry of notes are involved as in piano scores...
ps: 7. perhaps remember to practice what you preach, i.e. if you've ever been an advocate of utilising your choice of duplicated-button (available to EC players in all Eflats/Dsharps; Aflats/Gsharps). My underlying primary policy, since I started out, which I'm sure'll be pretty universal among most players/learners: is to mentally tag your duplicate depending on whether your playing in flats or sharps mode, i.e. if flattening an E then choosing the duplicate next to the E; or if sharpening a D then choosing opting for its twin next to the D. Same applying to the Aflats/Gsharps. What I'd be preaching though for bass/treble clef piano score stuff is to refrain from the principle in lieu of chosing what's best for fingering comfort.
pps: 8. related to 7, I'd been conversely defaulting on the latter principle and was in a quandary of swapping fingers on a particular button (mid-note) for certain unreachable chorded progressions, i.e. on, all things, the opening intro bar to "MoY" up until 1-2 weeks ago. This is a key progression during a minum, which is repeated in all choruses at "Seems to"; "And they"; and "Ev'rything". What was I saying in my last post about Roberton heavily-stressing the problem EC chord right at the beginning of the piece? Yes, he's not alone, c/o the LWM Co.'s arrangers, in this case for Eubie Blake. Trust me to take on songs with key chords/progressions that are a nightmare for EC. It's been pure coincidence that the arrangers have started their pieces on these. Again, nothing as esoteric as "surely they're composing with an EC", as much as I'd like to believe. When I chose the antithetical duplicate for this progression, I asked myself "why didn't I do that 9 months ago?". Before swapping strategy to 'utilising antithetical duplicate' from 'mid note finger swapping' I tried desperately to finger swap without detriment at high tempo, but my T-T - because of its sensitivity - detects the change, albeit not during slowere tempos when there's time to swap.
ppps: 9. [Almost at the starter for 10 pun]: There's however one other difficult progression in the piece requiring a different kind of move that I've done before on other songs but haven't discussed yet! This entails a finger pad that must slur from one button to another during an actual progression. Not saying where! Students will have to find for themselves. Till now, i.e. the last minute ago, I've been making that particular finger cross-over by 'travelling' it as quickly as possible since within a flurry of notes that probably mask the travelling. However, over the course of a mere 30 seconds, I've managed to get the finger pad to drape across the neighbour two button crossover with ease - phew! Final lesson completed on "MoY". YESSS!
pppps: 10. related to 9, write on this forum discussion with your thoughts and you might well discover [virtually] another revelation before arrived at in the real world.
ps further to post #9 as follows and extracted in [square brackets] :
["...,but taking a break to write due to the pain from 'repetitive bar practise strain' (RBPS) in getting there, during 30 minutes work or so.
I'll tell you where the [secret] problem 1-finger-pad slur is then!
It's at low A onto Lower D (a 5th lower), which is at the minims slurring between "Me-mo & ries of".
Unfortunately, for me, only the 3rd finger can do this. If it were my index it'd be plain-sailing! The other choice is to slur from the [raised] F onto Lower D (a 3rd lower) using the middle finger in a Carlin friendly relationship (*1). I find the former an easier slur despite my comfort with doing a Carlin friendly relationship on the latter! *1 - as discussed/elaborated at post No. 5
I'd also tried what's best between the Carlin/Non-Carlin approach regarding the index/middle finger relationship on the 'C-&-lower-[raised]-F' 5th in respect of trying adjacently to get the 3rd finger to slur. I was just about to swap/rememorise onto the Carlin friendly option for comfort (i.e. middle below index) until I found that I couldn't slur the adjacent 3rd finger down as easily.
So having reverted back to where I first started, what I did to achieve the slur at high tempo consistently, was to apply a door-handle action (*2) - and it then worked! This is when I had to stop, due to RBPS, not because of intensive LHS slurring work, but because of mindlessly hitting the low Aflat minim on the reciprocal side after 50+ goes! I do sometimes practise LHS & RHS independently, but this alters the bellow pressures and should be done just to help embed fingering memories, nothing more! *2 - as discussed at point No.5 of the original post (#1)..."]
At point No.9: as bolded, I should say 'NOT with ease' actually. Tonight I tried to do this again with great difficulty! I did however find the solution required eventually. This is to depress the preceding low A minim by resting the third finger nail on it and propping the finger pad onto the lower D minim ready to simply lever it round off the A onto the D to pull off a proper slur. Nonetheless, the majority of the above points from 1-10 still apply, I still find!
For a moment, I almost thought he'd really stumped us at that D minim (the aforemention problem "ries-of" minim), and that I'd have to revert back to the 'as quickly a travel as possible' method between the A and D. Nice to prove oneself that there was something more significant behind that minim than a mere pun or 2 surrounding it!
Great elation is felt when playing as written as opposed to winging it, so it was worth the perseverance.
Eubie Blake is in my good books again!
Further to the above quoted update, please note that Blake in fact gives the EC player another instance of this kind of slurring technique. Yes, I was travelling here rather than slurring previously, who can blame me, as I cross these veritable stepping stones to the hardest slurred notes in the song!
This is basically the most luscious part of the [already very luscious] chorus bridge - so it happens x4 if you sing both verses (rare). Most post-war jazz renditions ignore the verse, but multiply the No. of times the chorus is played, sometimes on a per soloist basis across all the instrumentalists, as so provoking is the piece.
Firstly, before revealing the instance (deserving of a curious notes entry as here) Blake demands [of EC] a slight sharing of the index finger pad on the preceding rhyming bar at Years - nothing to worry.
I've circled this 3 button move above. It's a sequenced double-slur that occurs within the extended semi-breve "Tears". The index finger has to move thus [G4,Db4,C4].
G4 to Db4 (slur) is achieved by doing the same trick as previously mentioned in my recent post at #15, i.e. by using the face of the nail then pivoting onto the next button, however this is a [much more difficult (non-5th)] diagonal instance as you'll see from your layouts, but not to worry as this half of the bridge has been slowed by Blake.
Not out the woods yet - it's a 3 button slur!
Db4 to C4(middle C) is then achieved by then rotating the index exactly horizontally onto its side.
So that happens to be the final difficulty, not without tears______!
For those who'd prefer to travel between these 3 buttons, be my guest, as when I was doing this I hadn't noticed the travelling due to the surrounding chords and because of the agile independence of the index's ability to [as my Granddad called it] cover-up quickly.
All this recent schooling'll put me back merely probably a week. I never thought in my wildest dreams that I'd be articulating this number as stipulated within the tempos.
Eubie Blake - did your transcriber have an EC?
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....Knowing this, I'm glad I made the concious effort recently to re-finger back to my original configuration, i.e. on the cited example bar - a 3 note bass chord, which with a little inward horizontal wrist action (in this particular case) has been no problem ergo in arriving at the stipulated tempo. That said, for the time being, I may stick with the 'fall into place fingering' (i.e. best hand comfort configuration) option for the slower rendition, but certainly not at Moderato.
The instance on "MoY" is interesting as there is a variable bar that will not permit substituted fingering, but which incidentally works perfectly naturally with the third finger because it has to act interdependantly with (as I use) the index - phew!. This is the arpeggiated chord at "seems to be" as repeated at "and they all". The problem bar then occurs slightly afterwards (in introducing the bridge at "How I wish" as repeated at "Happy yester"), where the exact same chording requires complete independence from the first executed finger, which again incidentally, but conversely, permits substituted fingering - phew again!....
...the textbook ‘middle, 3rd, index’ [aka 3,4,2 – for block chords and progressions: R. Carlin 1977 p17, which Carlin cites will ”...develop good habits”*] consciously in order to strengthen my 2,4,3 hand...
I should have mentioned - to avoid confusion - that Carlin uses a different numerical nomenclature for fingers: Thumb = 1 ; Index = 2; Middle = 3; Third = 4; Pinky = 5.
Apologies, for not pointing this out initially!
So this's how you use Multi-quote, nice!
b = symbol for flat
# = symbol for sharp
I should mention something fun during my recent assessment of finding a comfortable fingering at the above problem chord, which occurs as the first chord in the intro to "Memories of You" and as repeated in the phrases as cited above. This brings 3 discussions together in a way.
The thumb, which Carlin refers to as a No.1 can indeed play a certain button or two if the thumb is fully through its strap as at point No.2 in my original post (#1). This is similar to the notion that a guitarist can bend a thumb round the neck to play on the low E string. Carlin hasn't implied such by numbering the finger.
One of these buttons happens to be the Eb that I've opted to avoid using in lieu of its duplicate twin [D#] on the reciprocal LHS end - I've in fact successfully rememorised this chorded phrase and I won't be reverting!
Surprisingly, it's as equally comfortable to instead play the natural Eb with the thumb, which likewise (to my final choice) doesn't entail a long-travelling-finger-swap mid note.
In fact I would have had much less rememorising to do if I'd opted for thumbing this Eb6 Eb5 (ie on the RHS end)
The two reasons I decided not to apply this was:
1) unnecessarily unorthodox;
2) because I had an accidental tear on the RHS thumb strap [i.e. caused many moons ago when attempting to punch a tighter strapping hole unsuccessfully] that was making the thumb reach seem to easy. It isn't so easy to do on the LHS strap because it's fully intact. I simply didn't want to get myself into that unnecessary sense of security and position of advocating a slightly torn strap, notwithstanding 1) above.
at 2, I was a couple of years ago experimenting with thumb strap tightness. The tear was almost instantly in vain as I quickly warmed to slackness not tightness. They're now set more like my Granddad had them, albeit they're spares from Mr. David Leese, who's also kindly supplied me with a replacement reed and a couple of valves in the past. Yes, I've been very tight with what I've have as it's all in perfect working order, not without occasional maintenance.
That said, I will advocate the converse if or when an instance requires it. I don't foresee it! Especially because the thumb-reachable notes are twinned keys (duplicated keys - Eb & D#) giving greater choice ergo a LHS or RHS option for playing the note. "Memories of You" was a near miss in this respect.
I suppose this additional point mainly belongs in the Ergonomics form, where such strapping issues and similar things might have been previously discussed?
More news to report!
Back off the playing with thumbs fun/remarks!
Regarding my 13 May post as quoted above in bold, having re-assessed applied the above [re-assessed] arpeggiated chord fingering/s, I thought I'd noticed a decrease in my third finger's interdependent strength after my mitigation of its use on the variant bars.
This proves that third finger strengthening and memorisation are more critical than I'd thought. However, another revelation to add upon my thumbs-through advocacy that offers a remedy for this weakness follows!
I'd add "thumbs through slack but not too slack and of course not tight either, let alone too tight, but tight enough to instantaneously enable leverage strength and flexibility.
I've arrived at this [addendum] as I'd noticed an improvement by tightening up the thumb straps. The location of the tear was making the strap too slack for the necessary leverage. So back on track regarding my earlier fingering assessments - phew!
[i'm not desperate for replacement straps yet, but there's a whole new subject I've discovered here that could be discussed on the 'Eronomics' forum another day perhaps. I'll investigate first though to see if my ideas have been discussed previously.]
However, there's been another discovery as I school myself through what I've preached (1-10) above, i.e. to follow in a moment, as I tackle and get "MoY" nearer to recording.
How loud is the concertina?
in General Concertina Discussion
Posted · Edited by kevin toner
Jody, something just came in to my mind there, as it's kind of related:
There's a song by Buffalo Tom called "Thown" 2007, with a great line in the song "...the cars go by too fast...".
If you listen on about 20-30 secs after it's finished you'll hear [if spotify have not edited it out] cars playing over their background demo with people talking - probably one of the band members talking with daughter in a parked car with the demo in the background. [ps: I also recommend the demo version of their "Hawks and Sparrows", which have them trying to play over screaming kids. At the end of the song: a kid then says "we're now going out", but is not on Spotify yet though
I curiously should have discovered this album earlier since Spotify had appeared to be leaving a gap in the bands discography between their last and 3rd last albums.
I ordered it as a self-xmas present to myself and received just after the 2012 New Year. Within a couple of months Spotify then decide to upload the album - I'm not very lucky, am I!
It's not just Queen I like, these guys are great too already in some ways. [ps: I believe they're in your neck of the woods relatively speaking, but Boston based I think, I appreciate rock might not be your cup of tea though, very sorry for this]