inventor
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There is no reason why a stradella bass should not be coupled with a Hayden Keyboard. Indeed I suggested this idea in my 1986 patent for an accordion with a Hayden system on the right hand side. However on a concertina there would be problems with both the width of the button array, and the weight of the mechanism to make this work,
Whilst I was waiting for my first Hayden system concertina to be made; I converted part of the right hand side of a 34 button treble, 80 (stradella) bass accordion to a Hayden system. If you are already familiar with the stradella bass system (which I was long before I discovered my easy system for a duet concertina), then you will find playing a left hand accompaniment very easy. When my Hayden system duet concertina finally arrived it took me only a couple of weeks or so to play a good um-pah style accompaniment to folk tunes that I had learned on the experimental accordion.
Inventor.
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Use the following diagram for the shape of dominant sevenths.
( ) ( 5 ) ( )
( 7 ) ( R ) ( ) ( 3 )
This pattern fits in four different places on an Elise, to give the chords C7. G7. D7 & A7.
For C7 the button marked 7 plays the Bb (the leftmost button on an Elise) and the button marked R (the root note of the chord) plays C. Other inversions of the chord may be played by moving a finger up or down to the next but one row as available,
Personally I usually play a dominant seventh chord leaving out 5 alternatively you might leave out 3.
Inventor.
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I have seen this "drunken" layout on the fourth column of a couple of Wheatstone Maccanns before. The explanation is quite simple. On column 4 you get the D=s immediately below the Ds in the lower octaves. Fingering in very sharp keys where a D# replaces a D is no problem. However in flat keys, where the D# becomes an Eb , playing a run which includes D - Eb may cause an awkward fingering or jump. Offsetting these two buttons enables a player to do these runs with adjacent fingers easily. And similarly the Bbs at the top.
The two Maccann duets that I saw (many years ago) both originated from North Country concertina bands who played frequently along with Brass Bands. These mostly played music in flat keys. Possibly this instrument is one of those that I saw some 40 years ago, they were both ebony ended.
Inventor.
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Regards octaves played in the same hand: -
This is one of the reasons for tipping the rows of notes at an angle to the hand rail. This enables octaves to be played by two adjacent fingers. Unfortunately not all players and makers seem to understand there are good reasons for my recommendation.
Inventor.
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With regard to the compass of Hayden concertinas compared to Piano-Accordions:- A 46 button Hayden is very roughly the equivalent of a 26 key 48 bass PA.
I had a 68 button Hayden instrument made for me, with the top note an A the same as the top note as a standard 41 key PA, and down 3 octaves to an A which is 4 semitones above the lowest note of a 41 key PA (these 4 - F, F#, G, and G# are of course available on the left hand side of the instrument).However in around 30 years of playing the instrument (Folk, Baroque and a misc. eclectic collection of other genres); I have never needed anything above the high E - 5 semitones below the highest of the 41 PA.
My left hand played chordwise is roughly the equivalent of a 72 bass, PA; however as the chord sequence is concertinered into half the width of the equivalent of a stradella bass, in practice all chords in all keys are available to me.
Inventor...
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I don't usually join in these discussions making recomendations to beginners, for fear of being accused of self advertising. However I would first like to scotch a couple of myths about the Hayden Duet. Firstly: the days when you had to wait years before you could obtain a better quality Hayden Duet are long since gone, Good quality Hayden duets are available fairly quickly from both Button Box, and Concertina Connection, and are listed in their catalogues. Secondly: that Duet concertinas are difficult to learn to play. Whilst this may be true of the Maccann it is certainly not true of the Hayden Duet.
I discovered what is now the Hayden duet system around 50 years ago; whilst I was the accompanist for a professional Folk Song duo.; who sang folk songs including many Sea Shanties.
I would recomend you try an Elise from Button Box (Concertina Connection also offer a similar deal), and can only quote MetroGnome's final statement - " I ordered the Elise duet first. and I never returned it".
Inventor.
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With regards to the centre section being held rigidly in place, there is an English patent that shows how this can be done; though I'm not sure if this works very well. I have the illustration from the patent somewhere, and will see if I can find it.
Inventor.
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P.S. I also have an idea for an Anglo-type concertina (40 buttons) which would give 4 not just 2 related keys using the same fingering. An A/D/G/C instrument would have the same compass on the right hand side as the whole of the Uillean pipe compass, so you wouldn't have to waste time making silly high notes that are never going to be used.
Inventor.
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I am now nearly 80 I hope you will do it before I snuff it.
Inventor
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I did come across just one 45 button Jeffries Duet that had wooden hand-rests. All the others that i have ever seen had metal hand-rests.
Inventor.
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That is the parish I meant. I am sure that the vicar is the spirit of Rev Father Kenneth Loveless, who was also a pupil of William Kimber.
Inventor.
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They often (perhaps usually) were metal,on Jeffries Bros Duets.
Inventor,
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The quintessential Oxford Anglo Player was the late William Kimber of Heddington Quarry, Oxford.
Dan Worral, of this parish has written a book about his playing; giving the exact buttons, and bellows direction of the notes he played on both sides of an anglo at the same time, All the tunes, except I think only one, he played originally on a 20 button anglo. He made quite extensive use of harmony, which is all accurately notated in Dan's book. The book also gives examples of other more recent players ways of playing these tunes, including the virtuoso Anglo player and broadcaster John Kirkpatric.
This book should be in every Anglo players library, especially an Oxford Anglo player.
Inventor..
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Had you considered a Hayden Duet concertina ? It has quite a lot in common with a Stradella bass CBA. On the left hand side The chords are arranged in the same order from left to right, as the Stradella bass, but concertinaed into half the space.
A number of different keys play with exactly the same fingering, just like a CBA. 6 on a 46 button instrument, (E, A, D, G, C, & F); 8 on a 65 button instrument, (those plus Bb & Eb); and just 4 on the 34 button "Elise". The octaves repeat as on a CBA, which is very unusual on concertinas !
Many years ago when I was actively promoting this system at the Towersley Folk Festival, a CBA player came into my caravan and tried one of my concertinas. After a few minutes without any instruction he saw the similarity with his CBA and started playing tunes on the righ hand side, then added accompaniments on the left hand.
Inventor.
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I have never seen pull on the top, except on the concertina.com site. Another way that I personally like is writing the push note then / and then the pull note enclosed in brackets; because it is easy to type out and doesn't need special diagrams.
e.g
(c/ g) (g /b) (c'/d') (e'/f') (g'/a') (c"/b') (e"/d") (g"/f") (c"'/a") (e"'/b")
(b/d') (d'/f#') (g'/a') (b'/c") (d"/e") (g"/f#") (b"/a") (d"'/c"') (g"'/e"') (b"'/f#"')
Inventor.
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To Oldnickilby: What kind of CNC Router do you have at your factory ?
Inventor.
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Alex thank-you for your correction. I should have said "possible" rather than "highly likely".
I have seen inside one 45 button Jeffries which looked as if it had been converted from a duet, It had actions for the thumb button and the last of the buttons of the bottom row opening onto the same reed, which only makes sense on a duet. It also had obvious changes to the reed-pan as well.
I also know someone who fairly recently converted a 50 button Jeffries duet into a G/D/A anglo-type, but I am quite happy to accept that "large Jeffries anglos are duet conversions", is merely an "Urban Myth".
Inventor,
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Regards "not reversible changes" - it's highly likely that a 44 button Jeffries instrument started life as a Jeffries Duet anyway, and if you are working with a "highly skilled repair man"; go for an instrument that will exactly suit your playing style. Think of all the Stradivari violins that have been converted for modern players; the very few of these that haven't are sitting in an unplayable condition in Museum cases.
Inventor.
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See my suggestion for a 40 button Anglo type instrument on the "General discussion" section under the "Brian Hayden" section.
For a 44 button instrument you might add a (c#/Bb) ( ) ( ) button to the bottom LHS row;
and (c#'/bb) ( ) ( ) (c'/d') (e"'/d#"') buttons to the bottom row on the RHS.
This gives a comprehensive C/G/D/A instrument. Set a tone lower you get a Bb/F/C/G instrument. two Anglos for the price of one.
Inventor.
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Thank-you for all your replies. It's now come up with a message "Someone thinks you're cute" ! How can a tall ugly fat old man in their late seventies possibly be described as "cute" !
Inventor.
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I have a message at the top of the page saying "(1) person left you anonymous feedback" Chirpler is also mentioned. What is this about. Is it some sort of virus ? It leads to "Facebook" which I do not, nor ever intend to join.
Inventor.
P.S. how do I remove this from the top of the page when I next log into Concertina.net ?
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How about using a Router Dovetail template machine with specially cut dovetail shaped slots to correspond with the various sizes of reed-frame? I have a Router & Dovetail templates which I purchased reasonably inexpensively from Axminster Powertools. These also come up quite cheaply from time to time at Lidl and Aldi.
Mine has a couple of interchangeable plates for cutting dovetails and narrower box joints. These have straight slots, but I am sure that these could be turned over and the blank side cut suitably by an engineer with a milling machine..
Inventor.
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Thank-you Samantha.
Inventor.
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Now a closer look at chording, on the left hand side of the Anglien.
The standard Anglo has a few 3 in a row chords (4 major, 2 minor and 2 diminished) which are a useful starting point for accompanying in the 2 basic keys of the instrument.
Using the ( c / d ) as the first note of the M row; and the thumb button (g#'/a#') as the last of the L row; you have no less than 23 three in a row chords: (11 major, 11 minor chords, and an augmented fifth chord). Only one 3 in a row (first 3 upper left) is a discord. Pull these 3 and you have a very useful Bb chord, play 1, 2 & 4 to give an open C minor chord. There are of course many other chords available on the instrument, but these give you a flying start to a full interesting harmony.
Inventor.
Button Material For German Concertinas
in Instrument Construction & Repair
Posted
Had you looked at buttons made for the bass end of accordions ? These come in many sizes and colours.
Charlie Marshal - "CGM Musical Services" in Scotland can supply them and is most helpful.
Inventor.