d.elliott

I have used fast reply on this note, but five minutes ago it would not work on another response I made Dave

One thing about playing in a car is the vibrato effect, particularly give the state of the road surfaces around here! Dave

we seem to have lost the picture on my posting. Hopefully, see the attached Dave

As you incorporate big reeds, you will need to remember that their response will be relatively slow. This slowness will be made considerably worse by the equally big valves. As your proposal is for an anglo, you cannot follow the 'single action' design used on english system bass and some baritones, valves are inevitable. The valves in the chambers are assisted by the valve pins which not only prevent valves being jamed against the chamber walls or pad board/ hole, but also stop the valve being blown too far away from the reed pan base. This means that they can be sucked into place and respond as quickly as their size permits. On the underside of the reed pan valve pins cannot be fitted. Many baritones use valve wires, or sometimes they are called valve springs. Recently I stripped down a double action Edeophone bass. This had the expected very big reeds, and commensurate valves. The valves were made from quite heavy double layered leather and had strong valve wires fitted. Despite this, and although it was not unacceptable, it still played slower than a single action instrument. This valve design aspect needs to be thought through as much as the reed form that you are choosing. pic of valve wires attached Dave

Chaps, to add more fuel to the fire, I have only come accross two concertinas in mean tone tuning, both were very early Wheatstones. It could well be that others I have handled (of similar vintage) may have been re-tuned later to equal temper, even though their pitch remained as original. I suspect that as we re-tune instruments to get to concert pitch, to blend in with other instruments today, our Victorian squeezers (not tax collectors) will quite probably have had the temper changed on their instruments to suit their own changing times. Dave

You may well be right, I have heard the argument about energy losses in frame displacement before. The key point that I wanted to make to people who have these big reed instruments are that if they have an apparent muting of the reed sound and no obvious cause, then and irrespective of mechanism, there are a series of things to check and do that can make a very significant difference to the 'power' of the instrument and or specific reeds. Some people dispute the effect of resonant chambers all together, some say that the chambers only affect the speed of reed starting. I do not have the equipment, nor perhaps the patience to analysis or calc through the equations and transforms to try and bottom this. What I have found, empirically, is that relatively minor glue failures, and a slight loss of reed securing/ clamping force can have a very marked effect on the reed's performance. Dave

Some people may rememember my posting and ensuing comments about trying to get an even playing volume and responses on a newly aquired Lachenal contra bass instrument. The symptoms were that a number of notes on this steel reeded, single action, english system bass sounded muted and slow compared with comparable notes within the instrument, and against other (even) brass reeded bass instruments. All the reeds are surface mounted by being screwed (with two wood screws) onto the top surface of individual chamber pipes which are built onto the underside of the pad board. The pad board providing the 'floor' of each chamber and the pad hole feeding direct into each chamber. The problems are now all resolved, I have a strong instrument sounding consistent accross its full compass. For reference the problems encountered were: 1. some of the wood screws had shanks equal or slightly longer than the thickness of the reed frame, this resulted in a reduced clamping force onto the chamber pipe. 2. one or two of the chamber top plates had partial glue failure beween the underside of the chamber top plate (onto which the reed is fixed) and the chamber walls, resulting in the loss of some air (minimal) and a good vibration transmission between the reed attachment and the rest of the chamber/ instrument. 3. Shrinkage/ glue failure between the underside of the chamber walls and the pad board which forms the base of each chamber. again resulting in (more extensive) air losses and a poor resonant connection to the pad board. From this experience I would conclude that mechanical connections are important to the resonant characteristics of the reeds, and that cumulative minor air leaks can have the effect of signficantly reducing a reed's sound volumes. I hope others may be able to short cut my learning curve. most of the glue issues were not discenable to the eye, and were only evident when feeler gauges were used. Repairs included dismembering the accoustic chambers/pipes and pad board chamber assemblies and then a process of re-construction and bedding in joints. Dave Elliott