Oberon

Thanks for your reply and the kind words! The reed tongues seem to be nearly perfectly parallel to the plates, and while id figured it might help to create a higher set, the symptoms didn't correlate to what I commonly hear for low set; that a low set reed would sound quickly, but choke under higher pressure and would also be too quiet. My problem here is that the reeds are slow to speak, can be pushed to be much louder without any choke up and sound like a typical reed, but the overall pressure requirement is too high and imbalanced. That would normally point to bad valves perhaps, but without many valves present to begin with (because high notes) its a bit perplexing!

Hello folks, I recently acquired an AC Norman 30b anglo in mostly good functional condition, and while I normally have a decent mechanical relationship with concertinas (that is, I can work on most things without being too baffled), there's an issue thats throwing me for a loop and its driving me a bit mad. The topic of reed volume is discussed often, and rest assured I investigated as deeply as possible before posting this query The instrument is mostly fast, bright and loud, which I absolutely love, but the right hand first row (closest to the player) and a couple accidentals are uncommonly feeble and require a higher degree of pressure to sound when compared to the rest of the instrument. This of course makes for a terribly imbalanced experience and the lows end up easily drowning out the highs. It also renders ornamentation nearly useless. The highs are weak to start and will eventually sound but far too weakly. My first thought was 'must be the set of the reeds'. So I popped her open and found that the set is actually quite good. No choking, just weak volume and slow. Then I pondered, 'perhaps the valves?', and while the valve on the b/a button needs replacement and several others appear to have spots of mold or mildew (eek), the other higher reeds of course lack valves, so that would bring one back to reed set again. My next assumption was perhaps gaps in the reedpan, but this doesn't seem to be a problem. The final conclusion ive drawn so far is that perhaps its the material that is attached to the reed pan. Its some sort of, I dunno, papery, ribbed material. it appears to be common for AC Norman concertinas. Is it some sort of gasket that once upon a time was spongey or soft to some extent? Does anyone have any experience with this material? I feel like this is most likely the culprit because I can't imagine what else would be the cause at this point. Bellows are sound, reedpans are dead straight, pads are fine, valves are mostly missing (as they should for these high notes i imagine). Any other ideas, folks?

I have a mayfair in great condition, but requires just new thumb straps. It could do with a light set up but it works pretty well as it is. Comes with original case

What effect does increasing the hole size for a pad have on the playing characteristics of its note? Typically these holes are round and can only be a certain usually round size in order to fit the profile of a reed chamber as well as for applying even and consistent pressure, no? As I said before, in ocarinas, chamfering a hole causes the pitch to rise for that corresponding note. By removing material around the hole without increasing the pad contact areas diameter, there may be some effect that helps with pitch balance or something. Considering the chamber cant be made larger due to the tight and precise quarters of a reedpan, chamfering may be a way to get chamber volume that you would be lacking in particular areas. I imagine it must be incredibly awkward to try to make a chamber in the middle our out areas larger without having to make severe modifications to neighboring reed chambers and overall dimensions of the reedpan. I also know that in my experience of 22 years of making ocarinas that the response time of a hole that has been chamfered is indistinguishable from those that have not. The only thing that changes is pitch, but of course, the ocarina may have some different properties in terms of physics here If someone wants to try it, one way to figure this out would be to fill in the area of the chamfer, making it the same as the other 'normal' holes, with a temporary and removable material and record the pitch change. That would be risky for sure, but I bet something changes.

As mentioned, this is often done in woodwind instruments as well. I make a particular kind of woodwind, where almost all of the holes are internally chamfered. Doing so has two effects: -chamfering internally raises the pitch of the note without increasing the functional hole size. This is important for ergonomic purposes. Sometimes a hole diameter can be too large for average or small fingers to cover comfortably, so one chamfers the 'undercut' of the hole in varying amounts until the note is in tune and it will keep the hole much smaller than if chamfering was not used -the more you chamfer, the more material you are removing, and by effect you are slightly increasing the chambers volume (size). There is a fine balance between chamfering too much and lowering the entire pitch/chamber of the instrument, and too little and having poor ergonomics. Sometimes if the instruments base pitch is too sharp, adding deep chamfers too all the finger holes will reduce it's overall pitch enough to bring it into tune This makes me wonder. Was the purpose of adding these chamfers in the concertina to increase the overall volume (dimensions, not audible volume) of the corresponding chamber? Usually you see makers wanting to reduce the size of a reed chamber to improve response (though that's untrue on some instruments with tapered reed pans). Thoughts?

Howdy! I'm trying to source some goatskin leather to replace some deteriorated thumbstraps on a wheatstone EC that had matching bellows and straps. The trouble I'm running into is color accuracy. I'm a bit nervous about getting something that's a total mismatch and was curious as to whether someone has already worked out this particular chocolate brown and can point me in the right direction. Black has been pretty easy, and green, but the brown has been a bit daunting. Thanks in advance!

Theo, Valve quality and thickness, shape, etc, does seem to be a very nuanced subject. Those factors appear to affect quickness of playing, harmonic content, and the dynamics heavily for sure, and I look forward to learning much more about the very really and very severe effect valves have on a concertinas playability. One thing I'd noticed on my own instrument is that the valves are quite thin, leading to mant popping/slapping sounds and the occasional warble or jump in volume, but in general there seems to be a great level of volume dynamics available to me and higher harmonic values than my previous instruments. But in regards to size standards, is there a chart or picture or table illustrating valve sizes for a given reed? I'm sure the thickness and taper of the cross section of the leather is incredibly important, as well as grain direction, but is there a basic standard I can work off so I can order in some valves from CC or concertina spares or will I be better off ordering valve leather and manually cut 96 reeds by hand and shape them for my friends box? It's a beat up old tutor model and he just wants it running in some way shape or form

I know the common suggestion for sizing valves is to measure the previous existing valves, but is there a generally accepted standard for valve length for a given instrument? Ive got a friend with a Wheatstone treble EC, 48 keys, with absolutely no valves on its 96 reeds (barring those few very high reeds which wouldnt have valves anyway). Someone began a project but never finished, it seems. All pads are present, but it is sadly barren of valves. I assume I could use my digital caliper to measure from maybe 4 or 5mm beyond the base of the slot (where the old glue would be) and extend it a few millimeters beyond the opposing side for a valve that would be long enough to not be sucked in/stuck and function freely, but I wonder if there is a standard sizing chart somewhere that Ive never been able to find. Concertina Connection sells valves of all sizes, as well as two different thicknesses, so I could probably approximate with the calipers and select the appropriate length. When folks have discussed valve length before, Id noticed its commonly stated that valve lengths vary from make to make, but surely wheatstone had a standard they used, lachenal as well, considering they manufactured thousands of instruments. Thoughts?

Theres also always the possibility that the reed shoe is a little tiny bit loose in the slot. I recently had this issue with my wheatstone EC. I knew the box was in concert pitch before sitting down to play, and upon playing D, found it was a good bit flat. That was very odd, so I opened the box up, found the D, lightly pulled on the Reed shoe and it came out without any resistance at all. I cut a tiny tiny piece of paper a la dave Elliotts book suggestion, pressed it back into the slot with the paper and put the box back together Reed was perfectly in tune again. Just that slight looseness around the reed drew energy away from the note, making it flat. I'm in new England and winters are very dry here (baseboard heating) so it makes sense. I always put the concertina back into a humidified case, but even just a minute of playing in a dry environment is like pumping warm air into wood. May be worth checking that first (if you haven't already)

update: found a box elsewhere. Thank you folks! Hello, I'm switching on over to English from anglo and am testing the waters to see if any folks have an EC they're looking to sell. I'm very interested in one in particular I'm looking at presently, but am wondering if theres anything else that might fit the bill just in case something occurs (like its sold suddenly). Budget is around $1200-1300 usd plus shipping, maybe a bit higher, depending on the box. Metal ends would be great, but wood is also fine, of course. Cheers!

Heres some audio clips: Tunes: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v0w2h6hyb400cki/20200116_113303.mp4?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/76mjphcghfgmjnu/20200116_113117.mp4?dl=0 Scale: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dprdmz2h55if1ro/20200116_112939.mp4?dl=0

Up for sale is an old Lachenal concertina with mahogany ends. It has brass reeds that sound very warm and sweet, with a few steel reeds on the left hand end, but they blend nicely together in pitch, all are in working condition. All new pads and grommets, apart from the air button pad which works just fine. It is very much in playable condition, though in need of a little tuning. I'd bought this instrument very recently off ebay but I would like to switch to English instead. There had been work done to this instrument before it came into my possession, and it will need a bit more restoration going forward. There were some cracks in the left hand action board that were repaired, but not very well and could stand to have some fresh work done. The previous owner made and installed neoprene gaskets to take up slack at the meeting of the action board and reedpan. They work well, and once the chamois is replaced on both reedpans, it may mate nicely again. Height adjustment to the corner supports may be in order here as well. There are some old patches that seem to be holding but could probably be replaced. No case included. $620 +shipping, which is less than I bought it for last month. Please feel free to ask any questions! Im happy to record a sample as well if youd like, photos coming soon.

Dowright, It looks like 165161 from what I can see. I hope that helps!

I'd say I'm particularly interested in an English, and if folks arent into in trading, but are selling one, I'd be interested in hearing what you've got!

Hey folks In my unending quest to have a concertina that plays well without issue, so I can improve as a player, I'm putting the feelers out there to see if someone would be interested in a trade. I recently bought a mahogany ended C/G 28 button lachenal in fair shape. It needed some work and still does. I've improved a number of things and while I really do enjoy working on instruments (I make them for a living) I'd rather spend more time playing and less time fixing. I was a bicycle mechanic for over 10 years and after working on bikes more than riding them, I'm loathe to repeat that same pattern with concertinas. It plays, itll need tuning and it's got some other things going on but it's a good candidate for restoration. I also have a melodeon I'm putting up for sale to fund this concertina venture. I didnt intend to sell my box as I really love it, but I really want a proper concertina that plays well off the bat more than anything so I can just get to enjoying the thing. A bit about the Morgane: Hohner Morgane, in keys of B and C. The action is quick and set lower compared to factory Morganes, and it's been upgraded with italian Tipo A Mano reeds and the entire range shifted down a little, so that it mimics a 23 button Paolo Soprani's low end. That is, it is shifted down one button. Responsive, dry tuned and the tipo reeds really are a easy on the ears. The button clasp on one side recently came undone at the rivet on the strap side and I havent gotten around to replacing it, but it's a cheap fix really. Normal light wear, in good cosmetic shape, but please feel free to inspect the photos as best as possible. Includes original hard case and one strap for playing on the side, as folks do these days with trad. Anyway, With that in mind, I'm curious if anyone would trade either a 30 button anglo or English treble in exchange for both my lachenal concertina and hohner morgane b/c box. I'm not interested in stagi, bastari, Italian or chinese boxes, I'd be more interested in a modern hybrid like the Minstrel or a proper restored vintage concertina, maybe a lachenal new model, or something comparable. I dunno, just putting the feelers out there to see if theres any interest. If not, I'll ultimately just sell both individually to gain the funds anyway. I'd considered checking if this is something the button box would be interested in but I'm not sure. I'm happy to provide more information or photos or clips if I can as well. I'm based in New England in the States. Shipping could get a mite expensive if going overseas, not to mention parcel force's extortionate fees, so just bear that in mind. We could figure that out at any rate. Thanks!

Ooooh, I like that, brilliant! I had attempted to work it in and found it was a bit lackluster a result, but causing negative pressure sounds like it could do the trick. Man, thanks so much!

That sounds alright enough, if the existing set of reeds in an instrument are not so hot to begin with. Though, as someone mentioned earlier, there are some makers that seem to get brilliant results. I was combing around Edgleys pages earlier and saw what looked like DIX reeds in an instrument of his. I could be wrong of course, but it looked similar at least. His instruments sound fantastic, as do 7 mount, so as long as the instrument is well made it seems worth it

Thank you kindly for your help, sir! I do have Dave Elliots book and have studied it as deeply as possible, and aside from that I refer folks in the industry and to articles on this site for many other issues, but I couldnt find anything that precisely discussed this 'run' interaction spot. So feeding a bit of glue into the seam will be appropriate after all? Excellent. I guess I should trust my intuition with that a little more, but when it comes to taking care of a very old instrument, I would prefer to double check with folks. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, measure twice, cut once, and all that. Cheers!

I'm not exactly positive on what the terminology for this specific leather component is yet, but I've found two leaks, both at where the binding strips interact with the butterflies and gussets. Please correct my terminology if youd be so kind! I've not had much trouble patching gussets and hinges, but I'm not sure how to proceed here (I'm not in a position to rebind bellows, mind you). I'd considered just trying to work a thin thin layer of pva into the seam and press it closed. Photo for reference. Its that arched line close to the corner, between the papers

Ah, I see, thank you so much for shedding some light on this. When I first got into concertinas a few years ago, I thought they were exceedingly complex and as time has gone by, they seemed more simple and now even more complex. It's the nuance and variability of each factor that really makes this an instrument of amazing engineering. Anyway, considering I dont see reedpans come up for sale very often (and even if they did, they probably wouldn't fit my instrument l) I will leave this instrument as is. Though, there are a number of steel reeds in this one too, so they must've worked out alright at the time. Barring full reed swaps, what of replacement reeds in general? I'd like to track down a brass E reed (second button, middle row, right hand) as mine seems to have some issues and wonder if spares are available out there in America. Thanks again!

As I've been working on my concertina, I'd been contemplating whether it would be logistically and economically feasible to obtain a second set of reeds. The current reed set is brass, and while I enjoy the sweeter, quieter tone for personal playing, I would also like to have a steel set some day to swap to if playing sessions. I sold off my previous concertinas this past year and regretfully do not have a performer at the moment, and instead rely on my B/C melodeon for events. Having a steel set might be in the cards if I intend to play out with this concertina... So my question is: what does a set of steel concertina reeds for a 30 button run for on the current market? I suppose everyone that owns sets charges varied amounts, but what can I expect to be the average? I know the Barleycorn stated somewhere that they have thousands of old reeds, so imagine they must be available. Apart from that, I'd been considering DIX Concertina reeds as well. Will these fit a l and lachenal reed slot and how much does a set run? Thank you all for your help in advance!

I've been wondering a bit of this myself lately. I use diamond needle files to tune instruments that I make and had been curious about whether its 'safe' to use these for filing reeds. They're probably too coarse to be honest, but still I'd be curious as to what the general consensus is on the matter

Ahh that tool sounds quite useful indeed. I'll have to make one very soon! The chamois very likely should be replaced but I'll try shimming them first.

David, I had read up on that fix idea from a thread elsewhere on this forum and figured it was worth a shot, as I found the right hand reedpan was indeed a bit loose. First I had tried to pry the chamois up but it was not coming up at all. I fear that it will tear if I attempt to lift it. I do have 3 sq ft of chamois and am in the process of replacing the reedpan divider chamois, and could likely replace the bellows end chamois, but I've never done that before and cant detect where the leather ends and the chamois begins. If I can manage to pull up the chamois without tearing it, I'll shim it. For now, I'd wrapped an ultra thin layer of chamois around the entirey of the reedpan and pressed it into the ends and it fit quite snugly and didnt seem to leak, from what I can tell, but that's a very temporary stop gap. I've tried finding articles here that detailed replacement of the bellows end chamois but cant find anything with much visual detail. I referred to Mr. Elliots book but I cant find any section on its replacement unfortunately Any ideas on how to remove/replace this gasket?

Chris, I had the ends off a couple hours ago to check for that very thing but the reeds didnt seem to have debris/burrs and were aligned well enough I think. I'll try with the light box to be sure though. I did, however, notice that it was mostly the right hand that suffered the most from the metallic 'tinking' sound and slow and weak note initiating, and coincidentally enough, the reeds on this side were the tightest and most heavily shimmed. The left hand side had much fewer shims and the reeds seem to fit solidly in their slots without the need for shimming. I didn't have time to adjust the shims today (ie remove them and add thinner pieces, not following the entire length of the reed) but I'll try tomorrow to see if this has an impact. I've improved the air tightness a good amount so far. It started at 12 seconds to full expansion, and now it is up to 20 seconds. The reeds on the left hand play with acceptable speed now and sound good, whereas the right side reeds are weakest on the push notes and rather feeble in attack. I have yet to get to a point in the repair where I can do without the neoprene gaskets, even though I've leveled out the reedpans, as I'm going to be replacing the entirey or the chamois on the dividers, but I cant imagine these gaskets are entirely responsible for the reeds response and voice. The current set on reed height is decent and shouldnt be causing this slow a response in my experience, which is why I wonder if something odd is going on.