CaryK

Gypsy, sent you a personal message through the forum. I'm willing to sell my Rochelle.

Ken, i think you are doing a great job keeping spammers out. I have used other forums in other professional areas that were completely hijacked by spammers and purveyors of objectionable materials. It got to the point where perhaps 1 message out of 100 was legitimate. The website administrators certainly weren't doing their job. Thanks for what you do. We don't see too many of the spammers showing up or staying around for long here. Keep up the good work.

Mark, I have this same problem from time to time. I get the numbness in my hands due to a deteriorating disc in my neck, which has been imaged by catscan. When I raise my head I can actually cause the numbness in my hands to appear and spread. When I lower my head forward toward my chest I can relieve the numbness. If I'm reading music and lifting my head to look out of the bottom of my bifocals I can bring on the numbness while playing concertina. PT using a weighted neck halter and pulley mechanism really helps me. I do the PT for several days to several weeks and then I am good for a number of months before the numbness reappears. I call it "hanging myself." Playing tunes by ear and memory also works for me, because then I don't have to rely on a music stand to hold music and do not have to raise my head while playing. I don't know what kind of PT you are doing and I certainly don't recommend mine unless your doctor approves it. Good luck with your condition. It is certainly an annoyance.

Hi Gary, This is a traditional schoolyard game.....taken very seriously by children and adults alike. The conker is the hard nut from the Horse Chestnut tree and is perhaps a little smaller than a walnut.. It is drilled and threaded...traditionally onto one of your bootlaces, and while one player dangles his conker...it must be kept still, ...his opponent swings his own conker on it's string attempting to strike the other's. All sorts of local variations to the rules .... most of which cause playground punch-ups from time to time. A great game for broken fingers and busted knuckles Now imagine 80 odd overgrown kids attempting this game after umpteen pints of ale and whiskey chasers.....as I said.... Mayhem and mirth In the midwest what call horse chestnuts "buckeyes." Collected them as a kid, polished them up and made "jewelry" of sorts out of them. Also threw them at teach other, but never knew they had another use. Thanks for the info. see here for more http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/conkers.html Dave Quite how this thread drifted here I know not... but who cares ?

At about 2am some bright spark went out to the car and returned with a box containing a hundred and fifty or so, ready threaded conkers ! The ensuing mayhem and mirth had to be witnessed to be believed. Some of us will never grow up ! Regards Dave For those of us on the other side of the big pond, what are "conkers" and why did they produce mayhem and mirth?

Rick, I had (and still have) the same problem. Even some of the simpler tunes in Levy's book seemed impossible to play at first. But, I surprised myself, and found that with a lot of practice I began to get it. Some tunes took weeks of practice before I could even get them to sound half-way right. New tunes with accompaniment still don't come any easier, but mentally I know that I succeeded before and with enough time and practice will do so again. For most people, unless naturally gifted, these things just take practice. I suspect most beginners (in any instrument) have felt the same way. Hang in there . . . . it'll come.

Can hear it fine on computer speakers. What's the difference anyway between contra dancing and square dancing?

Can hear it fine on computer speakers. What's the difference anyway between contra dancing and square dancing?

This does help, Samantha. I'm glad to hear that experimenting with both ways can be rewarding. My chief concern has been that while trying different fingering on different instruments, I would hinder my becoming proficient in one way, as well as get a little confused at times. My head tells me to stick with one fingering method until it becomes second nature before I go off learning new fingering for the same keys. However, I'm kind of interested in playing in other keys on the Edgley, because it is such an enjoyable instrument to play.

I own a C/G and an A/E concertina. The A/E is from Frank Edgley. It is a very nice instrument and much more playable than my C/G, which is a "starter" quality instrument. I usually play the A/E using the finering that I've learned (mostly from Noel Hill's school) for the C/G. Of course, this is easy to do and it works out very nicely. However, I can play most keys in the A/E as well, though the fingering is quite different. Because it is so much more playable than my C/G instrument I'd like to play it in keys other than A/E. If I wish to play in the Key of C, or G, or D, etc in my A/E is it worth it to learn the various scales on it, which would of course be very differnt than learning them on the C/G? Do you other players with multiple instruments in other keys such as G/D, Bb/F, or A/E bother to learn new fingering for each key for each instrument you might own? Is it worth the trouble to do this? Is is confusing to do this as you switch from one instrument to another? Would like to know your experiences and/or advice regarding this. Thanks much.

Great website. I wasn't aware of it. Thanks.

I don't know. By "gapped" do you mean sliding a razor blade or thin piece of paper under the reed and gently lifting it once or twice. I haven't tried that on this instrument. The bellows are not really improving. I played the Rochelle each day for about 6 weeks and did not notice any improvement yet in the bellows. I still assume this will occur with time.

This has been an interesting topic. First off, let me apologize to mccabe who began this post for the tone of my previous responses. It certainly wasn't as civil as it should have been. Secondly, you stated that I hadn't addressed anything specific about your complaints regarding concertina availablility. That's because I found your underlying premise to be wrong; that owning anything beyond our current ability level was "extravagant" (your word, not mine) and that enthusiasts shouldn't have good concertinas while more deserving professionals and wannabe professionals were having a hard time finding good ones. I just cannot support this basic premise in any way for a variety of reasons, many of which have already been expressed by others in this thread. But here are a few other facts you should know. Firstly, most people beginning the concertina do not start with top of the line instruments. I am a mid-50s male, who took up the concertina about a year and a half ago. I was fortunate to be able to attend one of Noel Hill's workshops this past year. Yes, there was ample opportunity for concertina envy. This was good natured "envy" at the other player's good fortune to own a fine instrument, not a begrudging, resentful envy because they had something the rest of us didn't In fact this school was the first opportunity I ever had to see a concertina played live (except for watching myself play for 15 months). And it was awesome to be able to try someone else's Carrol, Wheatstone, or Jeffries. Names I had heard about for months, but never thought I'd actually have one in my hands. It was a true thrill. At the school, among us beginners (only one of us had prior musical training) there were Stagis and Tedrows. All suitable instruments, but no top-o-the line instruments. None of us learned a roll or a cran. We learned basic scales, some notation reading, a few simple ornaments and chords, Noel's preferred across-the-rows fingering techniques, and a number of tunes to practice all that we learned. It took me most of the week to develop the new muscle memory to be able to do the new fingering and unlearn the old muscle memory. I finally "got it" and now enjoy its advantages. Among the intermediate group there was everything from Stagis to quite good ones and in the advanced group, mainly high end vintage or new concertinas. But Noel himself encouraged all of us to try to acquire the best concertina-reeded instruments we could, as soon as we could, to better develop as players of Irish traditional music or any genre for that matter. Second fact: you should know that perhaps you don't need the next level of concertina for what you want to do as a professional. I can't and certainly won't pass judgement on your needs and musical passions. All of which may be valid (as are mine). I'll just point out that a studio musician and composer as talented and accomplished as John Mock plays beautiful anglo concertina in his new CD "The Day at Sea". His concertinas of choice . . . .Morse Ceili's. You can get these from the Button Box with just a few months wait. Beautiful music is made all the time on concertinas that dont't have the esteemed names of Jeffries, Dipper, Wheatstone, Carrol, Wakker, or Suttner (et al). But if you judge you need one of these to meet your musical goals, that's great. I hope you meet your goal. But it is not the responsibility of any other musician to get you there. Third fact: humans are complex. We do things for many motivations. Greed and status can be motivators, but so are just pure enjoyment of the look and sound of a concertina. Someone may want to own and play just one, someone may buy many to be able to enjoy their unique personalities and tonal qualiites in different venues. Others may acquire more concertinas than they "need" simply to collect them for their beauty. Each of these are quite valid reasons to own more than one "needs" with respect to any musical instrument, whether rare or common. So even if the instruments are not played, one shouldn't presume to judge the motivation for owning them as wrong. Finally, amatuers at any level of skill should be encouraged to play to whatever level of ability they can reach by professionals. All professional musicians started as amateurs. Amateur comes from the Latin, "amo", "to love". We do what we do, not for pay, but out of love for the activity alone. Hopefully, a professional gets paid to do what he or she loves and so never loses the empathy for fellow amateurs. Personally, I doubt I'll ever be paid to play. I'm an unskillful musician with no musical background. I have a terrible time playing consistently rhythmically. But I love this little instrument and can see a quantum leap in my ability since I purchased one of Frank Edgley's beautiful instruments. So I'm keeping at it, and if good fortune smiles on me perhaps someday I'll expand my concertina ownership to include one of the concertina-reeded instruments as well. I don't need to. The Edgley plays very well and sounds beautiful. But I might want to, and there's nothing wrong with that either.

I much prefer the Rochelle's sound over the Stagi and enjoy playing it. However, I'm still hoping the bellows loosen up more as it takes a lot of effort to play, expecially faster pieces. The bellows, while stiff to extend, seem a little loose in contraction in that they flop together with a "floppy" noise as I'm playing. The noise is in time with the music, but its not really the acoompaniment I was seeking. Also, I'm a little disappointed with some of the higher pitched reeds. They are slow to "speak" and are sometimes completely drowned out by lower notes when played simultaneously with them. I don't have this problem with the Stagi. The Rochelle is a mixed bag, but for a low price (relative to other concertinas), you get a serviceable starter instrument that has great backup from Wim Wakker, and is much better mechanically designed than other new instruments from China in the $100-$300 price range. Its not the last concertina you'll ever own if you continue, but it serves its niche well. It will allow you to play, get better, and determine if you want to continue playing. I have no problem recommending it as a starter.

The more you write, the more you display your elitist nature. I'll likely never own a Jeffries, but it won't be because I wasn't "worthy." What gall you have. Who discards a Jeffries anyway? If you know of so many of these, why don't you contact the unworthy owners and make them an offer?

I upgraded from a Stagi, which I still use, to a wonderful A/E Edgley and the difference in my ability to play Irish tunes is tremendous. I don't think I will ever be able to afford an instrument more costly than a Kensington, and that only after many months of saving. I don't begrudge those that can afford more, regardless of their playing ability. I have to say, I'm irked by your willingness to judge the motivation of others (the "underlying reasons" as you call it) in wanting to own the most instrument they can afford. Your basic assumption, that your use of the concertina is more important to society than someone else's use is just plain egotistical. I wholeheartedly disagree with your assumption that because you are a "professional" musician, you are more deserving of a fine instrument than a concertina "enthusiast" who plays for his or her own pleasure only. What a crock. Get off your pedestal of self-importance. If you picked the wrong instrument and can't abide the wait for an upgrade, then you have yourself to blame for poor planning.

Forgot to mention the following in my comparison of theStagi to the Rochelle. The quality of the hand straps and the strap adjusters on the Rochelle are much better than on the Stagi.

I've been carefully comparing my new Rochelle with my C/G Stagi for the last month or so. There are pros and cons with the Rochelle. I also had a broken spring problem and Wim Wakker sent me the parts and instructions to fix that quickly. His service has been great. I find the wooden-ended Stagi is certainly finished off more nicely than the Rochelle (except for the ugly Stagi aluminum-foil dust cover behind the fretwork). The Rochelle's plastic over plywood is not as attractive as stained wood would have been. The screws and washers on the Rochelle also appear cheap and fragile compared to those on the Stagi. The Stagi's bellows also play more easily than the Rochelle's. Hopefully this will get better on the Rochelle with time. The Rochelle is a little bigger box than the Stagi and because of this and the stiffer bellows, it is a real effort to play it. After a half hour on the Rochelle, my shoulders and back are aching. Moving the air through the larger box does take more effort, it seems. The button placement of the Rochelle on the other hand is better than the wider placement of the buttons on the Stagi. Also, the action of the Rochelle generally feels better to play. The sound from the Rochelle reeds is certainly better (to my ears) than that of the Stagi. The Rochelle's tone is clearer, louder, and cleaner. The Stagi's tone, though sweet, is muffled (like playing the concertina with your hands under a blanket). The Stagi is louder on the high notes though and my Rochelle is weak and hesitant when sounding these reeds. I will try to clear out any dust or obstructions as suggested earlier in this thread. Finally, the Rochelle is more airtight than the Stagi and extends much more slowly when hanging it vertically, compared to the Stagi. So there it is. I think the workmanship that went into the appearance of the Stagi is a lot better than that of the Rochelle and the Stagi feels more solidly built. But that $400 extra you pay for in a 30b Stagi should be buying you something. The Rochelle is harder to work, but the button action is better. The sound of the Rochelle is subjectively much better to me. Hopefully, my issues with the bellows are just temporary. Service from Wim has been prompt, courteous, and accurate. I've also gotten that level of service from the Button Box, where I purchased the Stagi. Either instrument is a good starter instrument. But the Rochelle's cost give it a real advantage here as well as the Wakker's generous trade-up policy.

Joe, I was born and raised in South Bend (Rum Village area). Still have family in the area, which I am able to get back to visit once or twice a year. Was just there last month. Keep practicing. Consider taking Noel Hill's class next summer (see his website) if you have the time and resources to do so. If you wish we can exchange emails and perhaps can get together sometime when I'm back in the area. From your description of music you like to play (waltzes, etc.) you might do ok with parts of Bertram Levy's book. It comes with CDs. I think you can get it at The Button Box (google for website). Alternatively, you can play have a lot of fun just playing the melody line from simple arrangements and adding whatever harmony feels right to you. It's not a rigorous way to play, but if it keeps you playing its a good thing. Good luck.

Mary Ann, I was fortunate to be able to attend Noel's class in Ohio this year. It was my first time. The venue at the Jesuit retreat house is very comfortable and the other students were great to get to know. Lots of different playing levels and backgrounds were present. This was the first time I had seen a concertina played in person (other than watching myself in a mirror). I had been playing for about 15 months prior to attending. Noel is a wonderful teacher, very,very patient with the beginners' group. His fingering techniques made a lot of sense to me, but required me to unlearn quite a bit. It wasn't till the end of the week that I began to "catch on." If your learning "along the row" fingering, which most of the tutor books use, it is useful at first, though perhaps ultimately limiting for some. I would recommend becoming as familiar as possible with your note locations on your concertina though. The greater your abillity to "read the dots" the faster your initial progress in the class. Ultimately, the goal though is to learn to play by ear with minimal use of the notation other than as a guide to get started with a new tune. But that skill can take many years to develop well. Hope you can make it to one of his classes. I hope to get back next year, but won't know for awhile yet if I can.

Personally, I find the addition of "harmony notes" to be usually very pleasing in concertina tunes. To me they make the tune more musically interesting and memorable. I find myself after listening to a piece with them trying to figure out how to do the same. Like any ornamentation or harmonic device, I'm sure they can be overdone (like chording on every bar, which can sometimes bury a beautiful simple melody line). But generally, I like most pieces better when they are judiciously embellished with notes from the proper harmonic interval. Ms. Sullivan's playing sounded great to my ears.

I think the key here is that Hohner concertinas used to be better as a starting instrument. The current D40s are made in China and a number of folks report problems with them. My two Hohners lasted one month and 5 minutes, respectively, before buttons stuck and they became unplayable. I have since upgraded. Would recommend Wakker's Rochelle anglo, which though made in China, uses better designed action and bellows than Hohner. The Rochelle could be a good starter, accordion-reeded, instrument from which one would chose to upgrade. I am currently comparing a Stagi and a Rochelle. Also, play an Edgley, which is far and away a much, much better instrument as one would expect.

I currently play a Wheatstone layout concertina. I like the Jeffries layout too, though I've never played one. I am thinking of ordering a concertina with Jeffries layout. I've searched the forum about this, but only found fairly general comments to the question of is it difficult to learn and play both layouts rather than stick with one layout only. Do many players do this? Will it result in more confusion trying to remember how to play in one system with one box and another system with the other box? Or, once learned, do both systems become 2nd nature...like going from driving an automatic to a standard transmission in different cars you might own simultaneously. If I do acquire a Jeffries, what tips does anyone have for the best way to learn and become proficient in both systems without confusing the two? A lot of questions. Therefore, appreciate any wisdom acquired through experience any of you might wish to share. Thanks.

For what it's worth, I had just the opposite experience. I returned two new D-40s within a month last year to the well-known internet store I purchased them from because they became unplayable due to the air-button and various other buttons becoming permanently stuck in the down position. I would stay away from the D-40. You may want to check out Wakker's Rochelle concertina, which is due out this month as a much better starter option. The link to their website is: http://www.concertinaconnection.com/rochelle.htm Best of luck to you.

Wish I lived near Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I'd love to visit this place (see the link below). Though Im learning to play the Anglo, I grew up listening to Polish and Hungarian music on the PA and Chemnitzer concertinas are common here in Buffalo at church festivals, weddings, etc. The bar is apparently now for sale. It'd be a shame if "the only concertina bar in the U.S.A." became something other than that upon its sale. There's definitely a need for such happy places. Any AC or EC bars out there? http://www.artsconcertinabar.com/index.html