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Some New Tunes


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#1 RatFace

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 07:35 PM

I added a couple of new recordings to my music page:

Rosline Castle (slow and as a scottische) and New French Scottisch

A Coy Toy (Dowland)

Finnish Scottische

Josefin's Waltz

The first two are genuinely new - the second two I think I posted about before, but didn't have a permanent link for them.

- Danny

#2 yfried

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 11:16 PM

Danny,
Very lovely music. So many different styles and all played so well!

Yvonne

#3 m3838

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 11:49 PM

Rosline Castle blew me away. What a load of nuances! And great instrument too. Simple and elegant.
I'm not sure about Cello accompaniment though. Cello flies circles around concertina and makes it redundant and primitive. I'd separate the two.
Or perhaps use both to make a statement, or for drastic change of mood. Cello needs something more complicated, to my opinion.
In any case, rare glimpse of what is actually doable on a concertina, besides the "hopsy-topsy".
I guess we can discuss legitimacy of performing French Scottish on EC, and how much better and authentic it would sound on AC.
Any takers to demonstrate?

#4 Ptarmigan

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 10:55 AM

Very, very tasty indeed Sir.

Must admit though, I miss the C# in the early part of Roslin Castle, but that's a very minor quibble.

As for the Cello, I'm a big fan of them, especially with Scottish Fiddle. I think it sounds great with the C, although I suspect it may just be sitting a little high in the mix for Yvonne's ears on the Schottische track. Perhaps one other instrument in that mix might have helped the overall balance? Just a thought. ;)

However, on Josefin's Waltz I thought it was absolutely charming. My favourite track.

I guess we can discuss legitimacy of performing French Scottish on EC, and how much better and authentic it would sound on AC.


For me, after listening to Norman Chalmers playing Scottish music on E.C. for the past 30 odd years, the E.C. sounds perfect for Scottish Music, to my ears.

But then maybe that's just me. ;)

Anyway, thanks very much for posting these track links Danny. Made my day! :D

Cheers
Dick

#5 PeterT

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 11:17 AM

Rosline Castle (slow and as a scottische) and New French Scottisch

Clever; and works well. :)

#6 RatFace

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 04:21 PM

I juggled things around to make some more room to give a permanent home to a bunch of (practice!) recordings I made a while ago of Swedish tunes arranged for concertina (well, fiddle really) and cello - towards the bottom of my concertina page.

#7 David Barnert

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Posted 23 September 2008 - 08:49 PM

Great stuff all around. I have enjoyed your playing since your video of Rosline Castle first hit youtube (one of the earliest if not the first of the concertina videos) and I learned your arrangement on my Hayden Duet. I have one minor voice-leading suggestion to make, however.

As I hear it, you are playing this in the last two measures of both the A and B sections:

X:1
T:Rosline Castle (excerpt)
M:C|
K:Dmin
V:1
fde^c d>A G/B/A/G/|F>GE>F D4|]
V:2
AFGE D2-[D2B,2]|[D2B,2]A,2[D,4A,4]|]

Wouldn't it make sense (in terms of harmony and voice leading, as well as the standard way of resolving a 6/4 chord) to add a C# to the penultimate chord? I think it sounds better, too:

X:2
T:Rosline Castle (excerpt)
M:C|
K:Dmin
V:1
fde^c d>A G/B/A/G/|F>G E>F D4|]
V:2
AFGE D2-[D2B,2]|[D2A,2][A,2^C2][D,4A,4]|]

Paste the examples into the window here to see the notes or hear it as MIDI if you can't read the abc.

#8 Ptarmigan

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 12:45 AM

Great stuff all around. I have enjoyed your playing since your video of Rosline Castle first hit youtube (one of the earliest if not the first of the concertina videos) and I learned your arrangement on my Hayden Duet. I have one minor voice-leading suggestion to make, however.

As I hear it, you are playing this in the last two measures of both the A and B sections:

X:1
T:Rosline Castle (excerpt)
M:C|
K:Dmin
V:1
fde^c d>A G/B/A/G/|F>GE>F D4|]
V:2
AFGE D2-[D2B,2]|[D2B,2]A,2[D,4A,4]|]

Wouldn't it make sense (in terms of harmony and voice leading, as well as the standard way of resolving a 6/4 chord) to add a C# to the penultimate chord? I think it sounds better, too:

X:2
T:Rosline Castle (excerpt)
M:C|
K:Dmin
V:1
fde^c d>A G/B/A/G/|F>G E>F D4|]
V:2
AFGE D2-[D2B,2]|[D2A,2][A,2^C2][D,4A,4]|]

Paste the examples into the window here to see the notes or hear it as MIDI if you can't read the abc.


Hi David,

Just a wee comment on your midis.

You make a good point, musically, but being an Edinburgh man myself & knowing Roslin Castle I'm wondering if the first version maybe sounds a wee bit more melancholy & therefore perhaps more appropriate?

Just a thought.

Cheers
Dick

#9 Simon H

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 03:28 AM

Danny, love those, particularly Rosline Castle. It was that video on YT that got me into EC.

David or Danny while you are posting excerpts of the tune in ABC, would you post the whole tune in the version you play, with chords? That would be wonderful . While I don't expect to be able to match your playing it would give me great satidfaction to work on it.

#10 RatFace

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 04:04 AM

Wouldn't it make sense...


Yup it would indeed - thanks for pointing that out.

I think the reason I don't actually do that is that it ends up being a closely spaced triad, and I don't like that sound (so my fingers tend to avoid it). Bit of a dilemma really!

#11 David Barnert

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Posted 24 September 2008 - 09:49 PM

David or Danny while you are posting excerpts of the tune in ABC, would you post the whole tune in the version you play, with chords? That would be wonderful . While I don't expect to be able to match your playing it would give me great satidfaction to work on it.

I'd be hesitant to do that, as it's Danny's arrangement, not mine, and there also may be inaccuraces in my transcription of what Danny's playing. Also note, there are no "chords," per se. There are two voices speaking at the same time and they sometimes split into four notes. But they are all part of the arrangement, not left to the performer as to how to voice them, as chords would be.

I think the reason I don't actually do that is that it ends up being a closely spaced triad, and I don't like that sound (so my fingers tend to avoid it). Bit of a dilemma really!

You make a valid point. It certainly is a good habit to get into to train your fingers to avoid close harmonies when possible. But the resolution of the D to the C# is so important (to my ear), that I really am uncomfortable leaving it out. Perhaps a satisfactory solution would be to play it but get off it quickly, leaving the A and E ringing the full value of the note.

#12 RatFace

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 03:27 AM

I'd be hesitant to do that, as it's Danny's arrangement, not mine, and there also may be inaccuracies in my transcription of what Danny's playing.


If you have a transcription written out I don't mind at all you posting it. I've never written out how I play it (apart from the bare tune) - actually the arrangement is fairly fluid and whilst there are parts that I pretty much play the same each time, on the whole I never quite know what I'm going to play until the moment comes!

You make a valid point. It certainly is a good habit to get into to train your fingers to avoid close harmonies when possible. But the resolution of the D to the C# is so important (to my ear), that I really am uncomfortable leaving it out. Perhaps a satisfactory solution would be to play it but get off it quickly, leaving the A and E ringing the full value of the note.


Indeed - I may try that. Thanks - Danny

#13 David Barnert

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:04 PM

I'd be hesitant to do that, as it's Danny's arrangement, not mine, and there also may be inaccuracies in my transcription of what Danny's playing.

If you have a transcription written out I don't mind at all you posting it.

Well, all-righty then. Below is, as best I can figure out, Danny's arrangement, edited by me in that the last measure (of both sections) has been altered slightly as discussed above.

Pasting this into the Tune-O-Tron converter will give you a nice page of the notation (the occasional foray into bass clef is unfortunate, but you'll figure it out), but trying to hear it through that route is less successful. The T-O-T doesn't seem to know what to do with the (absent) harmony line in the first 8 bars, and so it starts playing what comes later at the same time it's playing the beginning of the melody. It should work better in other abc software. I did it in BarFly for Mac. It plays fine there.

Anybody who has read my introduction (on page 2) to the sheet music that goes along with Alan Day's tutor knows my frustration with notating from aural sources. As Danny says, he plays it a little differently each time, and so this transcription can never be more than a blurry image of a moving object.

Also, while the notes are here, the music isn't. The notes are just the framework upon which to hang the music. Listen to Danny's expression and phrasing. The music makes a statement, tells a story. The notes are just notes. You must make them speak.

Danny-

Somebody suggested that your performance is similar to Dave Townsend's arrangement. I've not heard Dave's version of it. Have you? Is yours based on it? Inspired by it? Coincidentally similar to it? Nothing like it?

X:1
T:Rosline Castle
C:Traditional Scottish, arr Danny Chapman
M:4/4
Q:1/4=60
V:1 up
V:2 merge down
K:Dmin
V:1
F>E|D2dB A2GA|B>AGF E2F>E|D2de f2ed|cdec A2GA|
V:2
x2|x8|x8|x8|x8|
V:1
BAGF E2FG|AFED ^c2de|fde^c d>A G/B/A/G/|F>GE>F D2F>E|
V:2
x8|x8|x8|x8|
V:1
x2dB A2GA|B>AGF E2FE|D2de f2ed|cdec A2GA|
V:2
D8-|Dxx2 A,2B,2|D,2x2 [B,2D2]x2|x2C2 [C2A,2]x2|
V:1
BAGF E2FG|AFED ^c2de|fde^c dA G/B/A/G/|F>GE>F D4||
V:2
[G,3-D3][G,D]A,4|[D,A,]xx2 [A,2E2G2]x2|AFGE D2-[D2B,2]|[D2A,2][^C2A,2]D,4||
V:1
d>^cdef2ed|a2gfe2d^c|d^cdef2ed|a>g f/a/g/f/e2z2|
V:2
F>EFGA4-|[A2F2]x2[A,4E4]|FEFGA2x2|Fx [DA]x [A,2E2]x2|
V:1
BAGF E2FG|AFED ^c2de|fde^c d>A G/B/A/G/|F>GE>F D2A2|
V:2
G,F,E,D,C,2x2|[F,C]xx2 [A,2E2G2]x2|AFGE D2-[D2B,2]|[D2A,2][^C2A,2][D,2A,2][D,2A,2E2]|
V:1
d>^cdef2ed|a2gfe2d^c|d^cdef2ed|a>g f/a/g/f/e4|
V:2
F>EFGA4-|[A2F2]x2[A,4E4]|FEFGA2x2|[F4D4][A,4E4]|
V:1
BAGF E2FG|AFED ^c2de|fde^c d>A G/B/A/G/|F>GE>F D4|]
V:2
G,F,E,D,C,2x2|[F,C]xx2 [A,2E2G2]x2|AFGE D2-[D2B,2]|[D2A,2][^C2A,2]D,4|]

#14 Richard Morse

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:45 PM

Somebody suggested that your performance is similar to Dave Townsend's arrangement.

I've got DT's recording of Roslin Castle and Danny's arrangement indeed is very similar. The two largest differences is that DT plays a single line with a sparse guitar backup (often playing the harmony), and that DT plays with a more Scottish flavor (crisper counters/snaps here and there).

Interesting discussion of the last three chords. I'm not sure what Danny is doing because of the "incomplete" chords (but they sound great!) - Dm, Am, Dm? David suggests Dm, A, Dm? DT seems to do Dm, Am, Dm the first time around and Dm, C, Bb the second time. Very interesting!

It's a bit late here right now but if anyone's interested I'll post a once-through of DT's recording tomorrow?

-- Rich --

Edited by Richard Morse, 25 September 2008 - 09:46 PM.


#15 Simon H

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 03:53 AM

David, thanks for posting that, and Danny for permission. I use ABC explorer http://abc.stalikez.info/abcex.php/ for ABC files and it deals with this really well. It is now at release 1.3.2 and is a superb ABC organiser, player and converter for ABC files.

thanks again
Simon

#16 RatFace

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 04:33 AM

Somebody suggested that your performance is similar to Dave Townsend's arrangement. I've not heard Dave's version of it. Have you? Is yours based on it? Inspired by it? Coincidentally similar to it? Nothing like it?


It has elements from the "Portrait of a Concertina" recording, where Dave plays melody only and Nick Hooper plays (on the first time of each half) a counter-melody based on an old source (I don't have the details) - so I borrowed bits of this counter-melody. I really love this recording... tasteful playing (concertina and guitar) and probably the nicest concertina sound I've heard (I think his tenor-treble is actually in a baritone body).

I started playing it basically as I do now before Dave recorded his solo-concertina version on Concertina Landscape. If it's similar to that it's coincidental (actually, I can't say I'm terribly keen on any of this recording, in spite of liking the previous recording so much).

#17 David Barnert

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 05:36 AM

Somebody suggested that your performance is similar to Dave Townsend's arrangement.

I've got DT's recording of Roslin Castle and Danny's arrangement indeed is very similar.

I wasn't going to name names. :)

Interesting discussion of the last three chords. I'm not sure what Danny is doing because of the "incomplete" chords (but they sound great!) - Dm, Am, Dm?

On closer listening, I hear Bb, A (open 5th, neither major nor minor), Dm. Interestingly, the Bb chord is the kind of closed triad Danny was trying to avoid in the next beat. But as this creates a parallel 5th between F->E in the melody and Bb->A in the bass, I'll stick with the voicing I included in my transcription, above.

It's a bit late here right now but if anyone's interested I'll post a once-through of DT's recording tomorrow?

I'd like to hear it.

#18 Richard Morse

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 06:47 AM

Okay, here's DT's recording of Rosline Castle. I've dummied the quality down and pushed it into mono for bandwidth but also to entice people to want to get the full-quality piece (and indeed, his whole Portrait of a Concertina CD which I think is one of the best English Concertina recordings ever).

DT tells me that unfortunately it's out of print, and the people that hold the "rights" to it won't consider releasing or reprinting it unless they have a guaranteed minimum order of (I forget how many) _________ copies. The Button Box is willing to take on a large chunk, and so is DT, but we still fall far short of the total. I hope that someday there'll be enough interest to allow this wonderful set of recordings to be available again.

-- Rich --




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