William J Mullaly

[Michael Reid]

I am not sure about 'the usual Csharps" in the Silver Spear, I never play them (being a piper, following Seamus Ennis' version) and I always feel a bit  they are somehow out of place when i do hear someone using them.

Good point. I usually play with fiddlers, only rarely with pipers (sadly). Henrik Norbeck's version is representative of what I hear fiddlers play:

 

X:39
T:Silver Spear, The
R:reel
Z:id:hn-reel-39
M:C|
K:D
FA~A2 BAFA|dfed BcdB|FA~A2 BAFA|dfed B2AG|
FA~A2 BAFA|dfed Bdef|~g3e ~f3e|dfed B2A2:|
|:f2af bfaf|gfed Bcde|f2af bfaf|gfed B2A2|
f2af bfaf|gfed Bdef|~g3e ~f3e|dfed B2A2:|

 

There are sharped c's in the second measure of both the A and B parts. Additionally, it's common (here) to turn the Bd sequence (in measure 6 of both the A and B parts) into a B-c sharp-d triplet.

 

If you listen to Kitty Hayes' playing you'll find that, contrary to Mrs Crotty,  never uses the C natural (or, more precisely, it's equivalent in the key of C) but always has the C sharp, playing a little triplet which makes she can get away with it when playing on her own.

 

As it happens, I played Kitty Hayes' CD a couple of times through this afternoon. I'm confused by what you said, Peter -- that is, the part about her not playing C natural. I'll try to explain what I hear in her playing.

 

Her playing of Touch Me If You Dare, the first cut on her CD, illustrates something interesting. She plays this tune (and several others) in F -- and tunes in F have lots of C naturals in them. The first time I heard this, I immediately thought, "Oh, she's probably playing a Bb/F concertina, so everything's down a step." But then an interesting thing happens: Where one would expect a B-flat (in a passage at the end of the A part), she plays a B natural. There wouldn't be any reason to avoid B flat on a Bb/F instrument.

 

[i tried to upload an 84 KB snippet of this in MP3 format, but I found that the board doesn't permit MP3 files, no matter how small. I can send this in e-mail to anyone who wants to here it. Click the e-mail button below to send me a message if you'd like to receive the file.]

 

The liner notes say Kitty Hayes learned on a 2-row but the recording was made on her newer 3-row. On a C/G, you can play all the notes of the F scale on the C row -- except for B flat. So I'm guessing that her instrument is a C/G, and that when she plays F tunes she sticks to two rows, just playing B natural instead of B flat.

 

Does that sound right to you, Peter? And is it customary in your area to play often in C and F (with fiddles tuned down one step from GDAE tuning)?

 

[Edited to fix a garbled word]

Edited December 29, 2004 by Michael Reid

[David Barnert]

If you listen to Kitty Hayes' playing you'll find that, contrary to Mrs Crotty,  never uses the C natural (or, more precisely, it's equivalent in the key of C) but always has the C sharp, playing a little triplet which makes she can get away with it when playing on her own.

 

As it happens, I played Kitty Hayes' CD a couple of times through this afternoon. I'm confused by what you said, Peter -- that is, the part about her not playing C natural. I'll try to explain what I hear in her playing...

I think Peter meant pretty much just what you said. C# in the key of D is a raised (or not lowered) 7th degree of the scale. Peter's "it's equivalent in the key of C" would be a B natural. In the key of F it's an E natural. The C's have nothing to do with it once you're out of the key of D.

 

So playing C natural in D would be equivalent to playing Eb in F.

[Michael Reid]

I think Peter meant pretty much just what you said. C# in the key of D is a raised (or not lowered) 7th degree of the scale. Peter's "it's equivalent in the key of C" would be a B natural. In the key of F it's an E natural. The C's have nothing to do with it once you're out of the key of D.

 

So playing C natural in D would be equivalent to playing Eb in F.

At the risk of further confusing things -- or perhaps just confusing myself ...

 

The note that I found distinctive in Kitty Hayes' playing is when she's playing in F major. Instead of playing B flat, which is the fourth note in the F major scale, she plays a B natural.

 

If she had a preference for altering the scale this way in all keys, the equivalent choice would be playing an F sharp instead of an F when playing in C. But I don't hear that. So I don't think it's a scale thing. Rather, it's simply that if one chooses to play F tunes on the C row, you've either got to go to the third row for the B flat, or work around that note. Her workaround is to play a B natural, which (to my ear) is a surprising choice.

[Guest Peter Laban]

It is not unusual in irish music (among whistle, flute players pipers and tuned down fiddlers) t orefer t othe scale as if it is in D, irrespective of the actual key the instruments are tuned to, or the key tunes are played in. I play a set of pipes in C but would always refer to the scale as if in D. The C I mentioned, and I added the 'equivalent in the key of C' for clarity would be indeed a B.

Hope that clears it up a bit.

 

Kitty plays a Lachenal C/G, she plays 'on the row' and works around the 'C natural' sorry I get confused naming it another way) by playing a little roll like triplet, sometimes a run is replaced by a Bcd triplet (as in the Hills of Coore) and I taught her a few tunes where the note is avoided altogether so we don't get clashes when playing together (e.g. Garret Barry's reel). When the note can't be avoided in tunes like The Green Field of America, The Old Torn Petticoat and the Hunt for example she will actually play them in their standard keys G or D

 

She maintains she hasn't a button for the 'C natural', even though I have shown her it is there (old habits and all that). It is interesting she plays this particular way compared t oother local players. If you listen to old recordings of Mary Haren, who played in a very similar way (and who was playing just maybe two miles away from the place where Kitty grew up), playing Over the Moor to Maggie, she uses a distinct C natural where Kitty doesn't use the lowered note.

Edited December 29, 2004 by Peter Laban

[Michael Reid]

It is not unusual in irish music (among whistle, flute players pipers and tuned down fiddlers) t orefer t othe scale as if it is in D, irrespective of the actual key the instruments are tuned to, or the key tunes are played in. I play a set of pipes in C but would always refer to the scale as if in D. The C  I mentioned, and I added  the 'equivalent in the key of C' for clarity would be indeed a B.

Hope that clears it up a bit.

Yes, the light bulb just clicked on over my head. Thanks, Peter.

 

P.S. Thanks for the lovely photo, too.

Edited December 29, 2004 by Michael Reid

[David Barnert]

It is not unusual in irish music (among whistle, flute players pipers and tuned down fiddlers) t orefer t othe scale as if it is in D, irrespective of the actual key the instruments are tuned to, or the key tunes are played in.

Not just Irish trad!

 

An hour and a half ago I heard a recording on a classical music radio station of what the announcer called "an unusual arrangement of Pachelbel's Canon in D major." It was performed by the Canadian Brass. What the announcer failed to mention (probably didn't realize) was that they performed it in C major.