Going Beyond Cuts

[Dave Weinstein]

So, I'm feeling fairly comfortable ornamenting tunes with cuts. I can find comfortable fingerings and nice sounding cuts with reasonable facility.

 

What now?

 

When to roll, and how does a roll on a concertina differ from a roll on a fiddle?

 

Likewise for crans.

 

--Dave

[JimLucas]

When to roll, and how does a roll on a concertina differ from a roll on a fiddle?

Likewise for crans.

Does the answer vary, depending on who your teacher was?

I look forward to the answers.

 

I know that in books I've seen for whistle and other instruments, not only do I find significant differences in which notes are specified and their precise timing, but even how many notes, even on a particular ornament on a single instrument.

[Sandy Winters]

Dave, what a huge topic/question!!! I have done a lot of analysis of this subject. Most of my 'info' is based on lessons/discussions with John Williams spread out over several years, as well as playing sessions with him on a weekly basis for many years. I also have a slightly different perspective on the subject since I play mostly English system. This has forced me to really investigate the ornaments used by anglo players so as not to fall into untypical (for Irish music) ornaments that can be executed easily on the English system.

 

Firstly, Jim is exactly correct in that different teachers will predominantly use and teach different ornaments. Noel Hill's 'style' is different from John Williams' and John's 'style' is different from Michael ORallagheigh. (sp).

 

Secondly, the term 'roll' is used to describe different ornaments when applied to different instruments. Fiddle rolls aren't the same as flute rolls and flute rolls aren't the same as concertina rolls.

 

Definitely forget about fiddle rolls on the anglo concertina. They are totally different animals. Specifically, you will 'virtually' never play the half (or whole) step below the melody note when performing a 'roll' on an anglo. Usually (99.9%) the ornamental notes are all above the melody note.

 

The choice of which type of roll to use is determined by which note the roll is to be played on and where the note falls rhythmically in the melody.

 

I'm going to think hard about this and try and present some info that would be useful. Unfortunately I don't do ABC notation so it might be difficult to do. I'll be back.

[Sandy Winters]

Simon Wells has put up an on-line tutor that has some very useful info about ornaments on the anglo. Real 'nuts and bolts' type stuff. I'd post the link here but I generally don't have much luck searching the site for info. Maybe someone else can post it here. I know the link was posted in discussion thread a while back.

[Sandy Winters]

Here's the link to Simon Wells tutorial.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/cghent/tutor.doc

 

Dave, since you have become comfortable with 'cuts' maybe the easiest new ornament to add to your repetoire would be what I call the 'reverse' or 'backwards' cut. It is typically used in a descending eighth note passage, and usually on the beat.

 

Instead of hitting the cut note as a grace note ahead of the melody note, hit the melody note and then the 'grace/cut' note. The two notes are essentially 16th notes (creating the Irish triplet with the next 8th note) but the 'cut' note should just be a 'flick', very short and hardly recognizable as a tone. There should be considerable 'space' before the next 8th note.

 

A passage like b/a/ g -- (two 8ths and a quarter note) would be played b//'d'// a/ g-- (two 16ths, an 8th and a quarter), with the 'd' being just a flick, ever so short.

 

Another example would be a descending passage like a/f#/ d-- played as a//'b'// f#/ d--

 

 

This is one of those quirky ornaments that is very characteristic of modern concertina style.

 

This ornament is used a lot by Michael O. and John W.

[mj.wright]

I have just mastered rolls and cuts and now find them very easy to do

 

practice makes perfect!

 

mj

[Dave Weinstein]

I have just mastered rolls and cuts and now find them very easy to do

What note sequence are you using for the rolls?

 

--Dave

[Sandy Winters]

Dave, here is an exercise/example to develop your 'rolls'.

 

The first measure of "The Silver Spear", all 8th notes, followed by the first note of the second measure. (All f's are #!!) (All notes on the draw, cross-fingering G and C rows)

 

|faaabafa|d....play this passage using alternating fingers (L1 and L2) on the three repeated a's, so your fingering will be |L4121,R1L141|2..

 

Do this until you are very comfortable with the alternating fingers on the repeated a's. You're not 'rolling' yet but it is important to get this technique of alternating fingers on repeated notes to feel natural.

 

Next: Add one note, converting the second beat (2nd and 3rd a) into an Irish triplet, that is, two 16ths followed by an 8th. There are several notes available to choose for this added note. (rhythm for the entire measure is now:

 

|1-and 2eee-and 3-and 4-and|1...)

 

First, musically the simplest choice is to just play an extra "a".

 

|faa/a/abafa|d... (x/ indicating 16th notes). Alternating L1 and L2 on the a's. This is musically the simplest, but techniquely difficult because of the same note triplet. Practice it!!!

 

Second, instead of an extra 'a', add an extra 'b', keeping the same rhythm.

 

|faa/b/abafa|d...This is *much* easier physically and more interesting musically. The rolled notes should be very 'crisp', lots of space between them, more rhythmic than melodic.

 

A variation of the same roll would be to hit the added 'b' *on* the beat followed by two 'a's, keeping the same rhythm.

 

|fab/a/abafa|d...This seems easier to me physically for some reason??

 

Finally, the classic anglo 'role'. Keeping the same rhythm, add two higher notes (notes easily accesible)

 

|fad/b/abafa|d...This role is *so* easy to play and sounds so typical to modern anglo style because it is so easy. It is used *a lot*.

 

I hope this makes some sense and that my chicken scratch abc notation isn't totally confusing.

 

If you master this role you should be able to come up with other roles for different passages. The last version, the 'classic', is really very easy. The difficulty is in getting it to be crisp, punchy and rhythmic.

[Sandy Winters]

Sorry Dave, I just noticed that you specifically mention in your 'signature' that you play a G/D instrument. My examples probably don't help much in a specific way but in general you should be able to interpolate some useful info.

 

The rhythmic info should transfer, but note selection and fingering won't. The important thing to remember is that you want to select the next highest notes in the scale that are in the same bellows direction for your added notes. They don't even have to be proper harmonically, that is, chord tones. A very typical roll on an 'a' (over an A minor chord) often uses the d and b as the added notes, niether one of them present harmonically in the A minor chord.