My First Big Buy!

[Anthony Cipolone]

I'm nervous about posting, since y'all are some well-informed of the concertina, but I figure it wouldn't hurt:

 

Given my own seriousness on the instrument and the advice of others, I sought out something more than the quaint little Stagi English 48-key that I own. After losing a (rather expensive) bid on a fine condition Lachenal from Europe, I found an old Lachenal tutor at Vintage Instruments in Philadelphia, PA. (Picture seen here.) The woman I spoke with played a bit of it over the phone, and was very up front about its problems -- she sounded surprisingly competent as far as concertinas go -- and said the brass reeds might just need a cleaning. They're kind enough to give a 48hr evaluation period, so I'll have a couple days of review (I'll post pictures!) before my purchase is complete. From the picture they post, the wood looks in wonderful condition, but she admitted to the bellows needing a bit of patching. A fellow faculty member is an organ builder/repairer and is anxious to help with the cleaning/repair of the reeds.

 

It strikes me as funny that this little (hopeful) gem, whose serial number places it in the early 1890s, only costs a few dollars more than the goofy little Stagi I bought back in April. I know it'll take some work and money to bring it up to speed!

 

I'll add more to this post once I receive the instrument. Are there any of you out there who do your own tuning? Was it a good experience for you, tuning your own instrument? Can you offer some suggestions for the amateur that might be interested? Should I practice tuning reeds on my Stagi? (Which is severely out of tune, I might add, so it wouldn't hurt.) I gotta say, after reading a lot of the forums (and work has been slow, so I've been reading a lot), I love that y'all are so helpful, especially to some of us "newbies" that don't really know what we're doing.

 

Anyway, good night, y'all.

 

- Anthony

 

(Edited for my own ignorant typos.)

Edited October 28, 2006 by Anthony Cipolone

[Richard Morse]

it strikes me as funny that this little (hopeful) gem, whose serial number places it in the early 1890s

Most brass reeded Lachenals with 5-fold black bellows were from about 1865 to 1870 instead. Pehaps there was a misreading/misunderstanding about the serial number, or it was a "special" to have brass reeds... or perhaps the person examining the box saw the brass reedplates the steel reeds were framed in and is calling the assembly "brass reeds" which makes sense if the person checking over the box were in accordion-mode. When accordion people refer to their reeds, they sometimes call them aluminum, zinc, brass depending on the reedplate material even when the reeds are steel.

Are there any of you out there who do your own tuning? Was it a good experience for you, tuning your own instrument? Can you offer some suggestions for the amateur that might be interested? Should I practice tuning reeds on my Stagi?

If you are intent to make reed tuning/box fixing a hobby or more, I suggest you start out by getting as much information on reed tuning and box repairs as possible before experimenting - and then start on dead accordions. Many accordions. And then work up to steel reeded concertinas that no one cares about - and then to brass reeded ones, and after a dozen boxes you might be able to do one you care about (with the expectation that the tuning will still be pretty marginal).

 

I know that this may sound pretty severe, but I speak from considerable experience. Even with help and much practice it took me several years before I thought myself reasonably competent. It wasn't until years after that that I realized how marginal I was at that prior point. That was about 20 years ago now and my hobby has long since turned into a real business. We tune hundreds of concertinas/year - many which come to us with poorly performed tuning work. Usually poor work is recoverable - though sometimes not. I've seen so many wrecked boxes (from inexperienced tuners) that I've moved on from being mad/upset to just sad.

 

It takes between 6 months to a year for us to train a new employee (already with requisite associated skills) to tune reeds before we let them tackle Stagis (and then we still have to adjust their work for the next year or so). If that person shows talent toward reed tuning we'll slowly work them into tuning our customer's vintage boxes in a few years (even then all their work is checked and tweaked by our head technician and reviewed by our manager).

 

Brass reeds are particularly sensitive to damage. If your intent is not to become a hobby repairer, but just to tune a few reeds to a box or two - I strongly recommend that have it done by a pro. It'll be done right, quickly, and will cost you far less than you could do it yourself (factoring your time to do the research, acquire the tools, develop the skills, and perform the work - not to mention paying someone else to correct your work).

 

Addendum thought here.... I know a number of people who have tuned their boxes - and are quite happy with the results. While this is fairly rare (that they like their results), when hearing/playing their boxes, *I* hear a lot of inconsistent timbre, slow-to-respond reeds, slightly muffled and breathy reeds, etc. This may not be apparent to many people - therefore not a problem for them (unless possibly when trying to sell the box to a more astute and sensitive person). My main concern is that inexperienced people usually damage concertinas - often beyond repair. It's so sad to see good boxes being wrecked.

 

-- Rich --

[Larry Stout]

I had Button Box do a tuning, pads, valves, and some bellows restoration on my 1851 Wheatstone with brass reeds and I would certainly recommend their work. (I bought that instrument after about 6 months on a Stagi). Cleaning reeds, on the other hand, is something I feel like I can do myself. Knowing how to do some maintenance and minor repair is probably necessary for any serious concertina player. I also recommend getting a copy of the Concertina Maintenance Manual so you can consider what you might or might not be able to do yourself.

Edited October 28, 2006 by Larry Stout

[Paul Groff]

Anthony,

 

Re: do-it-yourself tuning, I agree with Rich entirely. Larry's point is also well taken, but a less immediate issue for you.

 

Now you may be feeling like the parent of a kid who has brought home a $.25 goldfish and now needs to invest in a tank, filter, food, a place to put it and time and work to keep it going...

 

But maybe it's just human nature to require some blind optimism (or very creative cost-accounting) before getting into a major new endeavor. Cf. parenthood, wars..... at least the first can be very positive in the long run, despite the rough patches.

 

So many guys (and gals, but it seems mainly guys) who would hesitate to invest in a restored instrument for $1000 get pretty excited about a $300 project and hope that sweat equity will make up the difference. The truth (sometimes avoided for years or forever by amazing psychological maneuvers) is that this can be a very expensive way to go in money as well as time, and often fails to result in a playable instrument at all.

 

The fantasy of not only sailing around the world, but first building your own boat, is appealing. But for most it remains a fantasy and if you want to start sailing a bit maybe better to begin in a reliable boat built by someone with well-developed skills.

 

If you do decide to keep that concertina, I strongly suggest that you contact Rich's shop or another experienced pro to do the initial work.

 

Further thoughts.... It *may* turn out that the instrument's internal tuning is good enough to play without messing with the reedwork, even if it is not in moden pitch or temperament. Also keep in mind that tuning concertinas requires some different tools, skills, and attitudes than tuning reed organs.

 

Good luck, have fun, and best wishes!

 

Paul

Edited October 28, 2006 by Paul Groff

[m3838]

I had Castagnari hand made accordion. Sold it and bought about 5 different boxes in bad condition, Wakker concertina with accordion reeds, Wheatstone English, Wheatstone Crane, Geroge Case English a Chemnitzer and a Bandoneon, super-duper Russian hand made bayan and 3 row chromaitc from 1900s, Paolo Soprani.

I am excited about cheap instrumetns that I can do some improvement to.

It is true, the time and money is mostly a waste, if your goal is to make one(!) good instrument and stick with it. But experience you get from all this "junk" is eye-opening. Not only you learn many skills, but you

get to handle many types and systems, hear many different sounds and see in reality very unusual instruments from many parts of the world.

[Paul Groff]

It is true, the time and money is mostly a waste, if your goal is to make one(!) good instrument and stick with it. But experience you get from all this "junk" is eye-opening. Not only you learn many skills, but you

get to handle many types and systems, hear many different sounds and see in reality very unusual instruments from many parts of the world.

 

 

Believe it or not, this really describes many of my activities the last 10 years! The good, general purpose instruments that I acquire or get into shape end up going to serious students who want one instrument, working as well as possible within their budget, and the oddball instruments that are special-purpose or weird (or in nonstandard pitches, keys, etc. but with a fine original quality that I cannot bear to compromise by re-forging them into more standard types) tend to accumulate on my own shelf. Not as a collection "just to own," but as examples of different, and sometimes historically significant, musical sounds that can still be used today by the open-eared.

 

Paul

 

(edited for spelling; also "moden" in my previous post should read "modern")

Edited October 30, 2006 by Paul Groff

[Anthony Cipolone]

Thanks for all the helpful input. You've all officially made me terrified of tuning the concertina. Hehe.

 

I received it in the mail today and just spent an hour taking photographs. I'll post them shortly. In my uninformed opinion, I don't think the box is that bad. A lot of the valves are curled or stuck, so there's some silent and some warbly. The ones that do sound (which is most of them) are in tune on the push and pull, and the intervals sound right. I have a feeling it might not need a tuning after all.

 

The serial number is 31458, and it definitely has brass reeds. (I think you can make that out in the pictures, when I post them.)

 

The wood looks like it's in good shape, and the mechanism seems to work fine. I think someone did some work on this, because some of the pads are newer looking than the others. Also, I'm thinking it's impossible for the thumb straps to be original. I'm impressed with how light and how small it is compared to my Stagi. The buttons also come out about twice as far as the buttons on the Stagi -- is this normal, or do you think this could be a mistake?

 

The biggest problem is the bellows -- you'll see in the photographs that the edges are worn and there's a hole in one of the folds. I've been reading up on bellows repair (and still have lots of reading to do before I really touch anything) and I think it's something manageable. Now, they look black, but some spots look green -- were they making 5 fold green bellows with brass reeds in the 1890s? Or would you still place this in the 1865-70 range, Rich?

 

Expect another post in a little while with pictures.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Anthony Cipolone

[Anthony Cipolone]

Expect another post in a little while with pictures.

 

Since the pictures were too big, I just uploaded them all to a flickr account.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22223847@N00/

 

I've put in descriptions of everything I noticed. I have 48 hrs to decide whether to keep it or not. What do you think? I'm willing to put in the time and effort (the money part might slow me down a bit, though).

 

Thanks again for all your help.

 

- Anthony

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/acipolone/ works, too

Edited November 2, 2006 by Anthony Cipolone

[chris]

Hi

looks OK to me. The valves are not expensive to fix. I would have thought it well worth a bit of time and a little money. If you haven't already got Dave EllioTT's 'The Concertina Maintenance Manual' I would advice You to get it - not a vast expense

good luck

chris

[Theo]

The edges of the bellows folds look as if they have been deliberately abraded, possibly in preparation for applying new top binding. It looks pretty decent for an unrestored concertina.