Stagi/bastari Vs. Rochelle

[semaj1950]

Hi gang. I'm still, after several years, in the loand of the low cost anglo. I've been squeezing away at a Bastari 30 button for a couple of years, and am thinking there might be something better in the world. The action, which I'm sure includes reed response, is sluggish, especially in the upper ranges of the right hand side. Then there's the matter of sticking buttons, which require taking off an end, and squidging around the button on the lever until it does better.

 

I can't afford a $1500 to however much concertina at this point. So I was wondering if a Rocelle would actully be an upgrade from the Bastari, especially if I can trade it in when buying a Wakker Clover.

 

If any of you has played both a Rochelle and a Bastari/Stagi, and can give me some input, I'd be grateful.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim

[njurkowski]

I play English, but I started on a Jackie (I assume similar quality to the Rochelle). The Jackie was well in tune and a fine instrument, but only 30 keys. I moved "up" to a used Stagi, which has required constant adjustment, tuning, etc. The Stagi actually has a faster action, as far as the keys go, but the lower reads take waaaay longer to speak, and it isn't as capable of dynamic contrast or precise articulation. I needed the extra range to play the music that I was interested in, but if the Concertina Connection made a 48-button Jackie, I'd still be playing it. I'd go for the Rochelle.

 

Nick

[david_boveri]

Hi gang. I'm still, after several years, in the loand of the low cost anglo. I've been squeezing away at a Bastari 30 button for a couple of years, and am thinking there might be something better in the world. The action, which I'm sure includes reed response, is sluggish, especially in the upper ranges of the right hand side. Then there's the matter of sticking buttons, which require taking off an end, and squidging around the button on the lever until it does better.

 

I can't afford a $1500 to however much concertina at this point. So I was wondering if a Rocelle would actully be an upgrade from the Bastari, especially if I can trade it in when buying a Wakker Clover.

 

If any of you has played both a Rochelle and a Bastari/Stagi, and can give me some input, I'd be grateful.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim

 

the instrument you have sounds nearly unplayable. compared to the stagi i have (from the buttonbox), i would say a rochelle is a definite step down. for your bastari, it might be a step up.

 

i would say to definitely start saving up for your wakker.

[Fiddlehead Fern]

I'm thinking about getting a 48 button English Stagi from the Button Box. Good idea or no?

[m3838]

I'm thinking about getting a 48 button English Stagi from the Button Box. Good idea or no?

 

30 button model is $675

48 button is $890

Why don't you look for brass reeded Lachenal at the same price?

If you opt for 30 button Stagi, Jackie is better. Stagi may sound pretty well and mellow, with character, and look fine, but playing them is tough. $890 is a whopping amount of money for a toy.

[Fiddlehead Fern]

How is the playing different? And, when looking at instruments, what should I look for, beware of, and pay attention to?

I have only tried a Stagi once, a 48 button, and it didn't seem to hard to figure out or hold. Then again, that was the first time I'd touched a concertina.

 

I'm used to strings, bows, rosin and the like, so I'm rather lost.

[Boney]

How is the playing different? And, when looking at instruments, what should I look for, beware of, and pay attention to?

I have only tried a Stagi once, a 48 button, and it didn't seem to hard to figure out or hold. Then again, that was the first time I'd touched a concertina.

All the Stagis I've played were a lot of work to get going, especially if you want to play anything at a relatively quick tempo. Your arms and fingers will hurt after 15 minutes of playing. If you're only doing slow, simple things (as a beginner would), it's not all that much of a disadvantage. But even after a few months of playing, the instrument will really be holding you back. Playing a good concertina compared to a Stagi is a world of difference. I've played a Jackie a little bit, but not enough to tell you if it was much better than a Stagi, but it wasn't worse. Some cheap Chinese instruments are actually easier to play than a Stagi, but they usually have other problems (funny button spacing, poor tone, flimsy construction). I've heard some Stagis are better than others, and they get slightly better if they're broken in properly.

 

I think it's very difficult for a beginner to judge how bad a Stagi is, because you don't have anything to compare it to, and you don't have the facility yet to play smoothly and quickly, which is what makes the Stagi's limitations obvious. But even to a good player, a Stagi might seem tolerable if you only play it 5 or 10 minutes in a store, or don't try to play anything quick.

[m3838]

the wrong one

Edited December 20, 2007 by m3838

[m3838]

And, when looking at instruments, what should I look for, beware of, and pay attention to?

 

May be I'm wrong, but here's what I collected so far:

In a Concertina/Accordion/Bandoneon one must look for ...

1. How easy it is to start to sound at very low level and how much air it uses at high volumes

2. When no button is depressed, how quickly it leaks the air

3. Is the tone even througout the range? Are low reeds louder then high?

4. Are the buttons easy enough to depress?

5. How easy it is to play on push/pull? Most Stagis have that dreaded pause of silence between push/pull.

6. Do the reeds choke on sudden strong movement of bellows?

Then there goes quality of construcion etc., something that is to lesser importance for a beginner.

If you never played these types, just follow others' advice, and so far it looks that Jackie is the best bet. Unfortunately it's made in China, but there you go. Or get entry level Lachenal from Barleycorn. Though slowish and clunky-ish, they will hold another 100 years, they look reasonably well, sound reasonably well, and their price will likely to grow. Besides it's piece of history, pleasant to hold in your hands. Just make sure it's fixed up and doesn't lose too much air.

Am I too off?

[Fiddlehead Fern]

What about tuning? Are most beginner grade concertinas pretty much in tune, or will I have to get it checked over? If so, how much will that cost?

 

I completely understand the importance of a good instrument, and would like to get one that will work for awhile and not be a hinderance. Heavens knows simply learning to play the thing will probably be fustrating enough!

[m3838]

What about tuning? Are most beginner grade concertinas pretty much in tune, or will I have to get it checked over? If so, how much will that cost?

 

The tuning?

Often cheap instruments of German/Italian/Chines origin (and I believe those German/Italian are also of Chinese origin) come with some reeds not tuned well, waxed upside down, with wax spread on the valves etc. Also the reeds may be made of such soft steel, that it does detune during few weeks/months of playing. The tuning may be done carelessly, so the reed weakens at the spots it was scraped too deep. Many things.

I think a tuning of 20 buttons concertina will cost you anywhere from $50 to $200. The problem is that sometimes this new tuning may not hold for very long.

Besides tuning, I once wandered into well respected music store on Height/Ashbury, and tried Hohner 20 button. It was in very good tune, and had excellent tone. So I took it to try and within 10 minutes one note started sounding continuosly.

The pad had fallen off, or the valve? Another 20 button, Stagi, was pulled out of the box by our local repairman, Kimric Smithe of Oakland, I took it to try and the palm rest came off, complete with protruding screws.

Stagis feature sloppily made bellows, with flaps of "leather" not glued, corners sticking out.

Another fine example of East German Schooler had bellows made of synthetic material, that deteriorated to the point, when it literally turned into dust, and poured on the desk, leaving bellows, made of fine mesh. The pads are not glued well, and sometimes not glued at all, so the first attempt to play results in them falling off. Buttons are misaligned.

Etcetera.

You see, a Ukulele can be had at $70 and there are good ones, like Resa or Flea.

Guitars, Piano Accordions can be had at what, $300?

But Concertina at $300 is either junk or sold by Wim Wakker. No choice really.

[njurkowski]

What about tuning? Are most beginner grade concertinas pretty much in tune, or will I have to get it checked over? If so, how much will that cost?

 

I completely understand the importance of a good instrument, and would like to get one that will work for awhile and not be a hinderance. Heavens knows simply learning to play the thing will probably be fustrating enough!

 

The Jackie I had was pretty well in tune, at least to the point that I never felt it was necessary to tune individual reeds myself. The used Stagi I got had quite a few tuning issues, and I spent a few hours with a tuner, file, screwdriver, knife, and lighter sorting it out. The instrument is at least playable now, but I'd advise anyone who wants to get Stagi and not worry about getting into the guts of the instrument to get one from a dealer like the buttonbox, who will do all the adjustments in advance. If you have limited finances like me (and no fear of the inside of a concertina), then getting a used Stagi could be just what you need, though I have a feeling it's always a gamble.

 

As others have said, there are a lot of things about a Stagi that will hold you back, but it beats no instrument at all, or (as was my case), an instrument with a critically restrictive range.

[semaj1950]

As others have said, there are a lot of things about a Stagi that will hold you back, but it beats no instrument at all, or (as was my case), an instrument with a critically restrictive range.

 

Which returns to my original query: If one lives in a place where he or she can't go to a shop and actually lay hands on several different concertinas, and has realized that his Bastari is holding him back, is the Rochelle a viable option? Can one get better speed with one than with the Bastari?

[m3838]

As others have said, there are a lot of things about a Stagi that will hold you back, but it beats no instrument at all, or (as was my case), an instrument with a critically restrictive range.

 

Which returns to my original query: If one lives in a place where he or she can't go to a shop and actually lay hands on several different concertinas, and has realized that his Bastari is holding him back, is the Rochelle a viable option? Can one get better speed with one than with the Bastari?

 

Don't know anything about Rochelle, but Jackie is fine. Stop thinking about Stagi, when you have better options now. If you will have finances to get better one - fine, your Rochelle/Jackie will advance you there. If you will not have available finances, these instruments will hold OK, much better than ... what? Is there any option? What you are discussing basically, is if you are hungry, what are your options, to eat simple adequate food, or poorly made plastic mock-up. Of course you may choose to stay hungry, until fine French cousin will become affordable.