Chords And Such

[The_man_in_yellow_polka_dots]

So... How do you make chords with an english concertina? This is my first and I'm not sure how to do it really... Do you just use the 7th, do you use Majors or Minors on one hand and 7ths/5ths on the other? I don't really know how many notes I need... Any help would be much appreciated! Thx!

 

Btw, if this'll help, here's a button layout chart I made because I can't find one chart for a 30-button english.

 

P.s. Can any one please find me a CMajor? I've tried and tried and I can't find one! Thanks!

Basic_Chart.bmp

Edited April 5, 2007 by The_man_in_yellow_polka_dots

[JimLucas]

So... How do you make chords with an english concertina? This is my first and I'm not sure how to do it really... Do you just use the 7th, do you use Majors or Minors on one hand and 7ths/5ths on the other? I don't really know how many notes I need... Any help would be much appreciated! Thx!

 

Btw, if this'll help, here's a button layout chart I made because I can't find one chart for a 30-button english.

 

P.s. Can any one please find me a CMajor? I've tried and tried and I can't find one! Thanks!

What is your instrument? The chart you've made differs in two ways from the standard English layout (even for a 30-button):

• You have the low B and Bb (A#) reversed.
  
• The accidentals (buttons in the outer columns) should not be vertically offset from their natural counterparts (adjacent buttons in the inner columns).
  

So if that's actually how the buttons are laid out on your instrument, you'll have to do some adjusting when you upgrade to a better instrument.

 

Here on the Concertina Connection web site is a chart of what your button layout should look like. (Note that Eb and D# are synonyms, as are Ab and G#.)

 

As for how to play a chord, it should be fairly simple once you know what notes the chord is composed of. Then you just play those notes, e.g., C-E-G for a C-major chord.

 

On the English concertina, most major and minor triads (the simplest versions -- or "inversions" -- of the chords) form fairly compact triangles of buttons on a single side of the instrument. The C-E-G of the C chord is a perfect compact triangle, while the C-Eb-G of the C-minor chord is only slightly less compact. (You've labelled the Eb as D#. In an equal-tempered scale, it's really the same note, but in the pattern of the English keyboard, it makes most sense to think of it as Eb if it's next to the E and D# if it's next to the D. A full 48-key English will have both, and also Ab duplicated as G#.)

 

But maybe you're also wondering which fingers to use. Some folks advocate a four-finger approach which uses each of the fingers for one of the four columns. I don't. My little fingers are short and weak in comparison to the others, and if I tried to give them equal responsibility they would generally drag down the quality of my playing. Instead, I use mainly the three long-strong fingers of each hand, and only rarely release the little finger from the finger plate to simplify an otherwise awkward sequence. (For years, I didn't use the little finger on the buttons at all.)

 

So I normally use my index and middle fingers on the two inner columns, my ring finger on the obvious outer column, and shift the index finger (the most flexible one) for buttons in its adjacent inner column. But it's not good to be too rigid. It's usually possible to avoid "jumping" a finger (using the same finger for two notes in succession) by "crossing" (using the adjacent finger), instead. And for some passages it may even be helpful to temporarily shift all three fingers sideways.

 

But back to chords. There are two standard ways to play the C-E-G of the C chord in the left hand:

• Press the E with the middle finger, and press both the C and G simultaneously with the index finger. (The buttons are close enough together that this shouldn't be difficult if you use the pad of the finger, not just the tip.)
  
• Press the E with the ring finger, and use the index and middle fingers for the C and G, one per button. (Some folks find it more comfortable to use the index for the C and the middle for the G; others find the opposite. I can do it either way, and which I choose at any time depends on what notes I need to play before and after. Also, you may find that your fingers tend to collide when you try this, but I think you'll find that with practice you'll learn to avoid that.)
  

For the C-minor chord, the fingers are the same for the second configuration, while the first configuration would use the ring finger instead of the middle finger for the Eb.

 

The C-major configuration mirrored in the right hand will give you the D-minor chord, while the C-minor configuration will give the D-major.

 

In the next octave above, the chords are found in the opposite hand, and the patterns relative to the fingers are either the same (switching from right to left) or mirror-imaged (switching from left to right). The D chords in the left hand will use the same fingers as in the right, while the C chords in the right will need to use different fingers, but the principle is the same.

 

The standard 7th chord uses four buttons instead of three. Instead of trying to use all four fingers, I regularly use the technique of a single finger for two buttons. Thus for the left-hand C7 chord I use my index finger for both the C and G, my middle finger for the E, and my ring finger for the Bb (A#). For the G7 chord above it in the left hand, I usually double the two-for-one technique: i.e., I press both the G and D with my index finger and both the B and F with my middle finger. (I could -- and occasionally do -- use two fingers in one column and one finger in the other column, but that's rarely necessary.)

 

If you venture into keys with lots of sharps or flats, you'll find that not all notes of the chord are in the same hand. (The C#-major triad is one. And on your instrument, which lacks the duplicate accidentals of a 48-button instrument, even B-major and E-major.) The same may be true if you try to extend a chord beyond the triad (e.g., adding the octave C at the top of a C chord) or to use different inversions. But that shouldn't be any problem. For any chord, just determine what notes you need, find the corresponding buttons, and use whatever fingers are handy to press them.

Happy hunting!

[The_man_in_yellow_polka_dots]

What is your instrument? The chart you've made differs in two ways from the standard English layout (even for a 30-button):

• You have the low B and Bb (A#) reversed.
  
• The accidentals (buttons in the outer columns) should not be vertically offset from their natural counterparts (adjacent buttons in the inner columns).
  

So if that's actually how the buttons are laid out on your instrument, you'll have to do some adjusting when you upgrade to a better instrument.

 

[/indent]

 

Yeah, that's how it's set up. I was trying to figure out how the notes related to each other (to me they seemed to be placed at random) and noticed that some of the notes didn't fit in with the rest. Is there a way to change this, or is there a place I can send it to to have it changed?

[JimLucas]

...that's how it's set up. I was trying to figure out how the notes related to each other (to me they seemed to be placed at random) and noticed that some of the notes didn't fit in with the rest. Is there a way to change this, or is there a place I can send it to to have it changed?

Where do you live?

And where did you buy it?

Those two bits of information will make it easier to give helpful advice.

 

If those really are the relative positions of the buttons, then I would guess it's one of the cheap Chinese instruments. (Not to be insulting, just realistic.) There's really nothing you can do about the relative positions of the buttons, except to get a different concertina. I think that someone with moderate technical skills should be able to exchange the low B and Bb reeds to put them into their proper positions, but since I've never had one of those instruments I can't be sure of the details.

 

As to the apparent randomness in placement of the notes, that could be partly due to the way you named them. It may seem illogical to have the D# next to the E and the G# next to the A, but if you give them their alternate names you get Eb next to E and Ab next to A. And you don't always get the same increment in going from the inner column to the adjacent button in the outer column, but instead you get the most common accidental next to each natural note, which in some cases is a flat (e.g., Bb, not B#) and in others a sharp (e.g., F#, not Fb). Was it easier for you to see the patterns in the chart from Concertina Connection.

[JimLucas]

...that's how it's set up. I was trying to figure out how the notes related to each other (to me they seemed to be placed at random) and noticed that some of the notes didn't fit in with the rest. Is there a way to change this, or is there a place I can send it to to have it changed?

Where do you live?

And where did you buy it?

Those two bits of information will make it easier to give helpful advice.

 

If those really are the relative positions of the buttons, then I would guess it's one of the cheap Chinese instruments. (Not to be insulting, just realistic.) There's really nothing you can do about the relative positions of the buttons, except to get a different concertina. I think that someone with moderate technical skills should be able to exchange the low B and Bb reeds to put them into their proper positions, but since I've never had one of those instruments I can't be sure of the details.

 

As to the apparent randomness in placement of the notes, that could be partly due to the way you named them. It may seem illogical to have the D# next to the E and the G# next to the A, but if you give them their alternate names you get Eb next to E and Ab next to A. And you don't always get the same increment in going from the inner column to the adjacent button in the outer column, but instead you get the most common accidental next to each natural note, which in some cases is a flat (e.g., Bb, not B#) and in others a sharp (e.g., F#, not Fb). Was it easier for you to see the patterns in the chart from Concertina Connection?

 

Edited to correct bad punctuation.

[The_man_in_yellow_polka_dots]

Where do you live?

And where did you buy it?

 

I'm from southern Indiana >_<.

I got it on eBay from some guy in Texas. Not sure where it was made. Could be chinese, but I don't know much of anything about concertinas.

 

I think that someone with moderate technical skills should be able to exchange the low B and Bb reeds to put them into their proper positions, but since I've never had one of those instruments I can't be sure of the details.

 

So what you're saying is that I could take it apart and change the reeds around?

[JimLucas]

Where do you live?

And where did you buy it?

I'm from southern Indiana >_<.

I got it on eBay from some guy in Texas. Not sure where it was made. Could be chinese, but I don't know much of anything about concertinas.

Sounds like not much chance of getting the seller to make it better.

 

I think that someone with moderate technical skills should be able to exchange the low B and Bb reeds to put them into their proper positions, but since I've never had one of those instruments I can't be sure of the details.

So what you're saying is that I could take it apart and change the reeds around?

Maybe. There are others here who might know better, and I hope they'll add their "two cents". I think it will have a separate plate for each reed, but don't know whether they're mounted using screws or wax. And I'm not sure how they're mounted inside. For each button there will be two reeds -- one for push and one for pull, -- mounted almost back to back, and it's possible that those on the one side will be easy to get at and those on the other side devilishly difficult.

 

Maybe you should make a separate post in the "Construction and Repair" subForum to ask for advice.

 

I'll wish you good luck, though I think you would actually be better off getting a new Jackie from Concertina Connection. I suspect it looks similar to yours, but the design and production are controlled by Wim Wakker, who both builds concertinas of higher quality and plays concertina professionally. On the Jackie, all the buttons and notes are in the right places (location and spacing of the notes that are there is the same as on a standard 48-button English), and the instrument is guaranteed by the seller.

 

Edited to add: But you could also learn on what you have, and be prepared for a period of adjustment if/when you move up to a higher quality instrument. The button spacing will be different, but not greatly so.

Edited April 6, 2007 by JimLucas

[Nytram]

Hi there

 

Have a look at the videos for beginners of English Concertina on you tube

 

 

Regards and hope it's helpful

 

Martyn

 

 

 

So... How do you make chords with an english concertina? This is my first and I'm not sure how to do it really... Do you just use the 7th, do you use Majors or Minors on one hand and 7ths/5ths on the other? I don't really know how many notes I need... Any help would be much appreciated! Thx!

 

Btw, if this'll help, here's a button layout chart I made because I can't find one chart for a 30-button english.

 

P.s. Can any one please find me a CMajor? I've tried and tried and I can't find one! Thanks!