MarkvN Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Examining the innards of two 38-k Jeffries of a friend of mine, we noticed several mysterious pairwise punctures in the reedpans. In both instruments, the punctures are on the bellows side and in the same location. A comparison with pictures from a very similar 43-k Jeffries, posted by Andy Holder (http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13850&hl=holder&st=0), revealed additional reeds in those same locations. It seems reasonable to assume that the punctures somehow served as a guide during the making of the reed slots, but I wonder if anyone has figured out the particulars? Did they hold some device, a template of the slot maybe? Jeffries-BbF-38k-left: Jeffries-GD-38k-left: Also mystifying are the one or two lone screws sticking out of the reedpans of some of those same Jeffries (like the second one, at the bottom). They usually seem to be in the same location, and being on the bellows side, I can't imagine them having a supportive function, nor can they be used to pull the reedpan out of the bellows frame. Were these also used during manufacturing and did the makers simply not bother to remove them afterwards? Cheers, Mark (Edited some typos) Edited May 8, 2012 by MarkvN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 The screws are probably to prevent the bellows folds touching operating reeds when the bellows are nearly closed. My G/D has one. The small holes may be preparation for the installation of more inboard reed sets, perhaps for a 44 key instrument, but the reedpan has been used for a 38 instead. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 The screws are probably to prevent the bellows folds touching operating reeds when the bellows are nearly closed. My G/D has one. The small holes may be preparation for the installation of more inboard reed sets, perhaps for a 44 key instrument, but the reedpan has been used for a 38 instead. Chris Beat me to it Chris, Mark, see attached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkvN Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Thank you for your replies and the excellent explanation! Here is a picture of another Jeffries with similar marks but then for 'ordinary' reeds, and probably not for the wind slot but for the grooves; I gather that the principle routing technique would have been more or less the same? How different was the Jeffries/Crabb routing process from that famous Pathé movie about the Wheatstone factory, that props up here every now and then? Thanks, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkvN Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 @ Geoffrey Crabb, What I do not yet understand is: why, in the fifth figure of your exposé ('When all the material has been removed...'), does the slot go only halfway through the reed pan? (Oh, and only just now I realised how an exeptional ability to plan ahead must be one of the virtues of a concertina maker, you having prepared your answer some seven years before the question was being asked...!) Thanks, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Beat me to it Chris, I defer to you, Geoff! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 @ Geoffrey Crabb, What I do not yet understand is: why, in the fifth figure of your exposé ('When all the material has been removed...'), does the slot go only halfway through the reed pan? (Oh, and only just now I realised how an exeptional ability to plan ahead must be one of the virtues of a concertina maker, you having prepared your answer some seven years before the question was being asked...!) Thanks, Mark Mark Sorry that it was not clear. This attachment may clarify things. I have ammended the orginal document. No not planning ahead really. Most queries are not new and like many others arise from time to time. Any document I have written to address past queries is saved. My problem is finding them. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Thank you for your replies and the excellent explanation! Here is a picture of another Jeffries with similar marks but then for 'ordinary' reeds, and probably not for the wind slot but for the grooves; I gather that the principle routing technique would have been more or less the same? How different was the Jeffries/Crabb routing process from that famous Pathé movie about the Wheatstone factory, that props up here every now and then? Thanks, Mark Mark Please see attachment that may answer your question. I have taken the liberty of including the picture you posted in the document. Geoff Edited May 11, 2012 by Geoffrey Crabb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkvN Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 Hi Geoff, Thanks once more! Please don't excuse yourself for such a small unclarity when you're sharing your knowledge so generously - I'm only too glad that my question doesn't turn out to be completely silly. The photograph of the 26-k Jeffries isn't mine, really; I checked where I found it: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2669913270102727105DglWLk. It was made by Ptarmi (who is probably the same person as Ptarmigan on this site?). Maybe you'd want to replace my name for his in the credits. And, I have one further question, if you don't mind. You explained the way the slots are made and positioned. In different instrument I noticed a widely varying fit between the slot in the reed frame and the slot in the reed pan. In some, the slot in the reed pan is 'much' wider and/or longer, while in others each slot fits very snugly in both dimensions. Do you consider this an important feature for the tone produced and for the playability of the reed? Thanks, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptarmigan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The photograph of the 26-k Jeffries isn't mine, really; I checked where I found it: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2669913270102727105DglWLk. It was made by Ptarmi (who is probably the same person as Ptarmigan on this site?). Maybe you'd want to replace my name for his in the credits. No problem Mark. The 26-k was indeed mine, but it was actually Dave Prebble who took the photo, after servicing it for me. I'm sure, like me, he's only too glad to see anyone here making good use of it. Cheers, Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hi Geoff, Thanks once more! Please don't excuse yourself for such a small unclarity when you're sharing your knowledge so generously - I'm only too glad that my question doesn't turn out to be completely silly. The photograph of the 26-k Jeffries isn't mine, really; I checked where I found it: http://good-times.we...102727105DglWLk. It was made by Ptarmi (who is probably the same person as Ptarmigan on this site?). Maybe you'd want to replace my name for his in the credits. And, I have one further question, if you don't mind. You explained the way the slots are made and positioned. In different instrument I noticed a widely varying fit between the slot in the reed frame and the slot in the reed pan. In some, the slot in the reed pan is 'much' wider and/or longer, while in others each slot fits very snugly in both dimensions. Do you consider this an important feature for the tone produced and for the playability of the reed? Thanks, Mark Hi Mark apologies for delay, trying to do too much. Thanks to Dick for accepting my error in the picture attribution. Concerning reed slot dimensions, I have an open mind as to whether tone is affected but obviously reed performance maybe if of insufficient size. Of course, it is possible that the non uniformity of some slots to reeds maybe be the result of reeds being shifted about or replaced during the life of an instrument., especially Anglos. Please see these notes. Geoffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkvN Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 Hi Geoffrey, Thanks again. I marvel at the sheer numbers of dimensions that have to be taken into account, both in absolute terms and relative to each other. And then again, it's remarkable that concertinas from the 'Jeffries-Crabb-school' have this standard internal design (the older ones, anyway), which remains largely the same, regardless of their tuning and number of buttons. All the difference between a 30 button C/G or G/D, apart from the reed tuning of course, seems to be the screws mentioned above, to keep some reeds from hitting the closed bellows ;-) Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trayton Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Geoff, Could you please repost the attachments in this thread thanks in advance trayton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Geoff, Could you please repost the attachments in this thread thanks in advance trayton Re-posted. Geoffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trayton Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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