A concertina that is more sailor like?

[AlexCJones]

I had read this article , and remembered the part about the "funky old Scholer" and it being "more likely to have been in a sea chest than a Crabb, etc", or in my case, more likely than my 42-button George Jones. So, I thought it would be cool to do the same.

 

Fortunately, some people here in the forums were able to convince me that the rope wrist-strap is not a good idea. Actually the rest is not a good idea either. So, if anyone else is actually interested in trying this, then I'd like to share some of what I've learned.

 

First of all, if you want a wooden-ended 20 button concertina, and one that is not pearloid, and you do not want to spend a lot of time tinkering, then just buy a Stagi C-2 from the Button Box. Their price might not be the lowest price that you can find, but it is worth it, because at the Button Box, they actually tune their Stagis and do some quality assurance things. Read about that here.

 

My reason for recommending the C-2 is that it has 2 reeds per note tuned in parallel octaves, and since you are getting another instrument, it might as well have a distinctive sound. This also more closely resembles the larger Scholer, which has 3 reeds per note, with the reeds tuned in 3 separate octaves.

 

So, why not buy a Scholer? Well, if you can find one in a shop that you can play before buying, then that is great, but you are most likely going to find one on eBay, being sold by someone who can claim that each key produces a tone, but does not know much more about it. If you actually buy one that sounds like it is supposed to when it arrives, then you are lucky. It most likely will not be in tune with other instruments though.

 

If you still actually want to buy a Scholer, then first know this: there are 2 sizes. The smaller ones are usually tuned in D/A, only it is a slightly sharp D/A, that is not sharp enough to be an Eb/Bb, but sharp enough to be out of tune with other instruments. These have a single reed per note. Then there are the larger ones that have 3 reeds per note, tuned in 3 parallel octaves. These are usually C / G tuned, only it is a slightly flat C / G, that is not flat enough to be a B / F#, but flat enough to be out of tune with other instruments. Often, some of the notes play nicely, with all 3 reeds sounding in tune with themselves, but for some of the other notes, one of the reeds might not sound at all.

 

Scholers often are not too young, so some of the valves might need replacing, and there might be other issues. One idea I had was to get the first wooden-ended large Scholer I could find on eBay, then buy the next one I can find whose seller claims that it works, and if it is an ugly perloid, then cannibalize the pearloid one to fix the wood ended one. The pearloid one that I got turned out to have a lot of parts glued together in addition to being screwed together, so it is difficult to take it apart. You might have better luck, but then again you might not. The pearloid one appears to have been built with even less quality control than the wood ended one.

 

Scholers are just not high quality instruments. The reeds are attached to trapezoidal reed blocks in groups of 10, 5 reeds for the push, and 5 for the pull. Instead of felt or chamois, the sealing is done with some sort of string or yarn. The wood for the button-board is kind of soft, but not as soft as balsa wood. It seems like a kind of wood that would be best suited for making matches. And by matches, I mean those sulfur-tipped sticks for lighting candles or fires.

 

So, if you really want to have a wooden-ended Scholer to look more like something a sailor would play, then be prepared to do a lot of tinkering. If you want it to be in tune with other instruments, then either be prepared to spend a lot of time tuning the reeds, or make sure the other instruments are tuned to yours (which is easiest if the other instruments are all guitars, ukuleles, banjos, mandolins, and fiddles).

Edited April 16, 2012 by AlexCJones

[AlexCJones]

There is actually a 3rd size of Scholer! It plays in G/D. Even though it might be in tune with itself, it also might be a tad sharp. Its sides measure 4 inches each.

 

Another 20-key option I did not mention, for a 20-key for looking sailor-like is a Hohner D-40, which I think are less than Stagis, and, if I recall, are alright.

 

So, I hope that providing this information will help prevent you from wasting your time and money with buying yourself a Scholer just to find out in case you are the least bit curious. Or maybe if you are creating your own concertina museum, and you want to include a section on these East-German Scholers, then maybe you might find this useful.

Edited April 16, 2012 by AlexCJones

[AlexCJones]

There is actually a 3rd size of Scholer! It plays in G/D. Even though it might be in tune with itself, it also might be a tad sharp. Its sides measure 4 inches each.

 

Another 20-key option I did not mention, for a 20-key for looking sailor-like is a Hohner D-40, which I think are less than Stagis, and, if I recall, are alright.

 

So, I hope that providing this information will help prevent you from wasting your time and money with buying yourself a Scholer just to find out in case you are the least bit curious. Or maybe if you are creating your own concertina museum, and you want to include a section on these East-German Scholers, then maybe you might find this useful.

 

According to a more recent post somewhere, the Hohner D-40's are not that great either. So, if you want a 20-button, go for a Stagi, and buy it form a place that tunes and fixes them between the time they arrive at their shop and the time they sell them. For example, the Button Box, or Baldoni.

[Dirge]

I've a small brass reeded Lachenal Maccan that is my 'rough and tumble' instrument. That was definitely owned by an able seaman during the war and I suspect always went to sea because not only was it sold in Liverpool originally but it has rosewood ends which suggests to me that the brass reeds are there to resist sea spray damage not for economy. (which is why I have it too)

 

Anyway my point is that you don't need to mortify your flesh with broken out of tune Scholers to be authentic because at least a few sailors had the wit to take a half decent instrument with them.

[harpomatic]

Guys, anything out there with octave tuned double reeds and 30 buttons? Looking for that bandoneon sound in anglo concertina package. I know of that other, true german bandoneon-concertina variety in few sizes, and have a few of those, still anlgo is just smaller, and I like that.

[AlexCJones]

From buying cheap concertinas (not the Scholer ones), I was able to get some compatible parts and ended up with two playable concertinas and some parts:

 

 

The one on the far left is the best, but the other one is still playable, even without the highest b on the right side G row sounding. I think it is possible to get it working, but I don't want to bother with it.

Here are examples of that concertina being played:

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=yJ-UkOcfD88

[AlexCJones]

I've a small brass reeded Lachenal Maccan that is my 'rough and tumble' instrument. That was definitely owned by an able seaman during the war and I suspect always went to sea because not only was it sold in Liverpool originally but it has rosewood ends which suggests to me that the brass reeds are there to resist sea spray damage not for economy. (which is why I have it too)

 

Anyway my point is that you don't need to mortify your flesh with broken out of tune Scholers to be authentic because at least a few sailors had the wit to take a half decent instrument with them.

 

Dang! I have a Lachenal MacCann Duet with what I think are rosewood ends. If I had known that MacCann Duets could be considered sailor type concertinas a year ago, maybe I would never have spent any time with these 20 button ones, and instead spent more time with the MacCann duet. Well, I hope we have spared someone else the trouble.

[Dirge]

I've a small brass reeded Lachenal Maccan that is my 'rough and tumble' instrument. That was definitely owned by an able seaman during the war and I suspect always went to sea because not only was it sold in Liverpool originally but it has rosewood ends which suggests to me that the brass reeds are there to resist sea spray damage not for economy. (which is why I have it too)

 

Anyway my point is that you don't need to mortify your flesh with broken out of tune Scholers to be authentic because at least a few sailors had the wit to take a half decent instrument with them.

 

Dang! I have a Lachenal MacCann Duet with what I think are rosewood ends. If I had known that MacCann Duets could be considered sailor type concertinas a year ago, maybe I would never have spent any time with these 20 button ones, and instead spent more time with the MacCann duet. Well, I hope we have spared someone else the trouble.

 

Sorry I didn't mention it before. It's 'Uncle Arthur's concertina' and I got it from his family who had been sitting on it for years. Nice people. When I asked where he got it they replied 'Probably won it in a card game, knowing him.' He could play it though, apparently. He was an AB based in Liverpool so I tell anyone who's interested that my squeezebox helped guard the Western Approaches from the Germans.

 

If you find something that's not absolute budget with brass reeds there's a reason for that. Maybe the buyer wanted the different tone. I can believe that in some cases. But I think more were made because they were going to have to cope with adverse climate or conditions. (Like lots of salt spray and damp, say.)

 

What I wonder now is whether there was any link with the cheapest brass reed models and seamen. People usually just leave the subject at 'The cheapest models have brass reeds; look for a steel reeded one.' I don't remember there being a discussion about why there are so many brass reeded instruments about but there are definitely quite a few. The usual line is that the makers could cut the price by a few pence by using brass, end of story. But that never rang true for me and I've wondered before now why they kept on making them. It might explain why they kept knocking them out if they were for a particular niche of the market. Did they make the brass reed cheapos to appeal to anyone who was taking it somewhere hostile?

 

'In your line of work, sir, can I recommend that you consider a brass reeded model?'

Edited December 3, 2012 by Dirge

[harpomatic]

Dirge, if harmonicas are any indication, brass is more corrosion resistant. Regular steel reeds would not work for the harmonica. I think you answer your own question there..

 

 

 

 

 

But I think more were made because they were going to have to cope with adverse climate or conditions. (Like lots of salt spray and damp, say.)

 

..... Did they make the brass reed cheapos to appeal to anyone who was taking it somewhere hostile?

 

'In your line of work, sir, can I recommend that you consider a brass reeded model?'

[Dirge]

Dirge, if harmonicas are any indication, brass is more corrosion resistant. Regular steel reeds would not work for the harmonica. I think you answer your own question there..

 

 

 

 

 

But I think more were made because they were going to have to cope with adverse climate or conditions. (Like lots of salt spray and damp, say.)

 

..... Did they make the brass reed cheapos to appeal to anyone who was taking it somewhere hostile?

 

'In your line of work, sir, can I recommend that you consider a brass reeded model?'

You've misunderstood me but I'm going to start a new subject on this q.v...