Jeffries reeds/buttons

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

Hi, another question for the experts. What are the metal buttons on an old jeffries made of and also what are the reed tongues made from (would i be right in thinking spring steel)

I'll leave it up to you guys.

[michael sam wild]

i was told it was Sheffield sring steel. After Benjamin Huntsman's discoveries of crucible steel The steel was made in a crucible of trodden clay about 3 ft tall and 9 inch wide with a cap on. His house still stands in Attercliffe just down the road from us.. I have quite a few old crucibles in the garden

 

I was told by an old cutler friend that it came in a wooden box bound in a rolled coil ( 6inch wide) with wire and you eased it out and chopped it off in strips for further cutting and filing. He made penknife springs etc but the process was similar. He said it was a risky business if the coil unwound!

Edited May 13, 2010 by michael sam wild

[Greg Jowaisas]

Geoff Crabb has a similar caution on working with coils of spring steel. Here:

http://www.concertina.net/gc_make_reeds.html

 

There has been speculation that Jeffries used special steel or tempered their reeds in a special way. I've worked on a dozen and a half Jeffries and thus far I've found their reed tongues to be equivalent to Wheatstone's steel in hardness as far as removal of material in tuning.

 

However, on a whole Jeffries built a more "robust" instrument. The reed pans are thicker, the reed shoes deeper and these factors can influence sound, volume and timbre. Jeffries also used their own scale and profile for their reed tongues.

 

I would suggest that taking several measurements of tongue thickness from an equivalent Jeffries reed and using these as a guide to profile a proper thickness of spring steel might be the way to go.

 

You are still left with the tedious dilemna of fitting the tongue to the shoe with proper tolerances. The good Jeffries usually have tight tolerances between tongue and frame.

 

Greg

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

thanks guys. great help. and then what about the metal buttons? Would they have been silver or an alloy of some sort? they seem to be heavy enough?

[Geoffrey Crabb]

thanks guys. great help. and then what about the metal buttons? Would they have been silver or an alloy of some sort? they seem to be heavy enough?

 

 

Solid Nickel Silver (originally known as German Silver).

Alloy = approx. 25% nickel, 30% zinc, rest copper.

 

Geoff

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

thanks a million Geoff! Sorted now. Thanks for all the info everyone.

[michael sam wild]

Greg what do you mean by 'Jeffries using their own scale' please?

Mike

[Greg Jowaisas]

Greg what do you mean by 'Jeffries using their own scale' please?

Mike

 

Mike,

Length of the tongue is one way to vary pitch. Thickness (affecting spring and mass)through profiling is another. Some makers have as many as 14 different shoe sizes to help achieve different pitches on a standard anglo. I believe it was Chris Ghent who told me Jeffries used just 8 different shoe sizes. To Chris this meant whoever was doing the profiling for Jeffries reeds was a real wizard.

 

In this instance "scale" refers to the length of the tongues. Jeffries decided what tongue length and shoe sizes would meet their needs. Wheatstone's Aeola and Linota and Lachenal's Edeophone introduced a longer scale reed which was touted to be more responsive.

 

The best distillation I have heard concerning the characteristic Jeffries sound is "joyful".

That doesn't say it all but i think it comes close. How Jeffries acheived and duplicated that sound is a source of speculation and debate. I think their scale, profiling, and shoe depth were contributing factors.

 

Greg

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Greg what do you mean by 'Jeffries using their own scale' please?

Mike

 

Mike,

Length of the tongue is one way to vary pitch. Thickness (affecting spring and mass)through profiling is another. Some makers have as many as 14 different shoe sizes to help achieve different pitches on a standard anglo. I believe it was Chris Ghent who told me Jeffries used just 8 different shoe sizes. To Chris this meant whoever was doing the profiling for Jeffries reeds was a real wizard.

 

In this instance "scale" refers to the length of the tongues. Jeffries decided what tongue length and shoe sizes would meet their needs. Wheatstone's Aeola and Linota and Lachenal's Edeophone introduced a longer scale reed which was touted to be more responsive.

 

The best distillation I have heard concerning the characteristic Jeffries sound is "joyful".

That doesn't say it all but i think it comes close. How Jeffries acheived and duplicated that sound is a source of speculation and debate. I think their scale, profiling, and shoe depth were contributing factors.

 

Greg

 

I feel that I must write to remind or inform readers that most C Jeffries Anglos were either made completely in the Crabb workshop (pre –1895) or are direct copies of those instruments when Jeffries (Charlie) commenced making on his own account.

 

The choice of 7 or 8 sizes of reed to cover the range of the 30/31 C/G Anglo (Crabb/Jeffries) was primarily due to the initial cost of tooling for pressing the reed frames. The small independent makers who produced all the parts used in their instruments, did not attract the financial interest enjoyed by the 'big' makers and so money for setting up was limited. Also the price charged for instruments did not return enough profit to allow investment for increased tooling e.g. in 1895 a Crabb metal ended, 31 Button Anglo, with guilded bellows would cost £3-5-0d (£3.25p) complete with case. (If purchased via Jeffries, this price could double).

 

A second consideration is that with a parallel Anglo reed chamber layout*, the overall length of a reed is determined by the physical size of the instrument, the space available on the reed pan and the position of the reed on the pan. The latter is dependant on the routeing of the action levers. Because of this, it is generally not possible to use reeds of ideal size and compromise has to be made.

*Parallel reed chambers were preferred by the small maker due to easier, quicker construction without the use of sophisticated machinery.

 

The performance of reeds other than ideal size has not been seen as a problem in Crabb/Jeffries Anglos except sometimes where changes have been made to the originals e.g. change of pitch, retuning etc.

 

It must also be realised that prior to their expansion into Anglo manufacture, the two main recognised makers were producing English system concertinas and had press tools available for a whole range of 'ideal' (long scale) reed frames. (17 or 18 sizes for a Treble alone). With the use of radial reed pan chambers, there was, therefore, little problem in producing and fitting ideal reeds in Anglos.

 

It may be noted that I would still only use 7 sizes of reed in a C/G Anglo or 48 Treble English or 8 sizes in a G/D Anglo or 56 Tenor-Treble English.

 

Geoff

[michael sam wild]

Thanks Geoff and Greg. Geoff, didn't you say at the recent Dungworth talk that the optimal depth of the parallel chamber and the clearance for the reed was important too?

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Thanks Geoff and Greg. Geoff, didn't you say at the recent Dungworth talk that the optimal depth of the parallel chamber and the clearance for the reed was important too?

 

 

Yes Michael,

 

The depth of a reed chamber, whether radial or parallel, is important to the response of a reed. Ideally, the criteria for reeds in the Treble+ range is that the physical volume of a chamber should be as small as possible. To achieve this, the reeds are mounted with the heel end to the edge of the reed pan and the chamber blocked off at the reed tip end. Additionally the distance between the upper face of the reed tongue tip at rest, and the under side of the end box (action box) should be just greater than the maximum swing of the reed tip at full amplitude. Examination of the best responsive English and Duet concertinas where the reeds tend to graduate in size around the reed pan will show that the reed pans are sloped to achieve the latter i.e. large reeds have deeper chambers, small reeds shallower chambers.

Because of the random positioning of reeds in most Anglos, the reed chambers are generally of equal depth on each reed pan, the left end pan chambers being deeper than the right.

Note of caution here, special attention must observed if considering lowering pitch by adding material to the tip of the reeds. Because of the minimal clearance suggested, any substantial addition of material may cause the the reed tips to touch the underside of the endbox when at full swing.

 

On instruments extending down into the Baritone range and below, to obtain maximum reponse the chambers for the lower notes also require to be longer than those generally found in the Tenor/Treble ranges. The additional criteria here is the distance between the reed tongue tip and the pad hole. Reference to pictures of Baritone English concertinas (e.g. the 44 button Wheatstone in the Buy & Sell section) and large Duets will show how the reeds for the lower notes are inset in their chambers. Of course, to accomplish this the overall physical size of the instrument will be greater.

 

Geoff

Edited May 18, 2010 by Geoffrey Crabb

[Seán Ó Fearghail]

I'm also looking into were to get my hand on some spring steel and it was suggested that if i asked here that some people might be willing to share where they get they're spring steel or could guide me in the right direction? Thanks everyone for all this info on the topic.

thank you again,

Sean

Edited May 19, 2010 by ofearghail7