kjillinois
-
Posts
18 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by kjillinois
-
-
STRAPS - there used to be lots somewhere here about ergonomics of various straps by someone called Goran Rahm and I see there may be discussions with him on mudcat, though I have not really used it. Different message layout. Praps u can try him.
sthing came up here:
http://www.mudcat.org/detail.cfm?messages__Message_ID=2309093
I did go on mudcat and from there on to some postings by Goran that contained his drawings and research on the concertina.
NOTE: Göran's "straps" are not "wrist" straps. They are straps that fit across the back of the palm, like those on anglos and duets, though Göran's design also incorporates an extended platform underneath the hand, rather than the simple bar of anglos and duets.
Be aware of the difference. If you want wrist straps for your English, that's fine, and you should check with the Button Box. If you want Göran's modifications, they're something quite different, and you'll probably have to make them yourself. (If you're playing a Jack, I would guess that you don't have the budget to have them custom made for you.) And the two different designs will have quite different effects on your playing.
Hi Kautilya. I have no interest in modifying the instrument, just need a little support for the lower notes. keith
-
My only question now is "will the plastic hold the insert. Thank you for the input. keith
Hello Keith, I'm baffled by your question! The ends of the Jack are made of wood, is it the shiny finish that makes you think it's plastic? There should be no problem fitting wrist straps to a Jack.
Pete.
Hi Pete. That is great news! I just assumed the ends were plastic. Thanks so much. keith
-
STRAPS - there used to be lots somewhere here about ergonomics of various straps by someone called Goran Rahm and I see there may be discussions with him on mudcat, though I have not really used it. Different message layout. Praps u can try him.
sthing came up here:
http://www.mudcat.org/detail.cfm?messages__Message_ID=2309093
Hi Kautilya. I did go on mudcat and from there on to some postings by Goran that contained his drawings and research on the concertina. I'm in the states, so I think I'll try button box. Wheatstone had them in 08 and the thread said they were around $56 then. My only question now is "will the plastic hold the insert. Thank you for the input. keith
-
Yes, they are adjustable. I have issues with weak wrists and even on a treble EC need the extra support. Bob used the same hardware they use to attach anglo straps at the bottom of the handles. There is a little brass insert you push into a small hole you have drilled. It is held against the wood by ridges on its outer surface. It is threaded inside and takes a brass bolt that goes through the strap. He used these at both ends and cut big straps from soft leather. It is hard to describe without a photo. It works great, looks nice, and is better than anything I could rig up. I would not do this to an heirloom Aeola, but I have a rough-and-tumble Lachenal.
Ken
Thanks Ken. Sounds good to me. I think I'll contact them. The jack is plastic, so I hope it is thick enough to drill into and hold the insert. I too like the wrist strap as it relieves any tension on my pinkie and thumbs. I've been trying to train myself to play the lowest notes with the jack on the push rather than the pull and that does help. keith
-
I had some put on my EC by Bob Snope at the Button Box. They could sell you the requisite parts.
Ken
Thanks Ken. Are they adjustable, how are they attached, and more importantly, do you like the way they work. keith
-
I recently purchased a jack concertina and am looking for information on installing wrist straps. I love the lower notes of the jack but it does take a little more force on the bellows than the treble. Does anyone out there sell wrist straps and how is the best way to mount them? Any information would be appreciated.
-
Scott:
Thanks for the prompt shipment of the Jack. It is wonderful shape and I thank Concertina.net for providing the forum for us to get together. I've been reading the posts for awhile and they are so helpful to novice players. The jack does take more air and is a little slower to respond, therefore takes a little more effort on the bellows. Does anyone out there know where I could get a couple of wrist straps for the Jack.
kj in Illinois
-
Hello,
Concertina Connection Jack has been sold.
Looks like I'm a banjo player after all.
Thanks!
Scott
-
Well, I play duet, but I don't think I'd recommend one for the usage you described. They're really for playing melody and accompaniment at the same time, or for playing simultaneous melody and counterpoint. You could use them for simpler purposes, but they're big, expensive, and rare enough that unless you're going to use their full capabilities, I think you might as well choose English or Anglo.
There's nothing about an English that would discourage learning by ear. I used to play Anglo, and it does have some advantages. The different notes on push / pull make the melody fit in a very compact space, and harmonies change "automatically" as you change directions playing the melody. It's also usually played with a more robust style, probably because of the ergonimics of the handle, and the way you need to learn to change bellows directions frequently and quickly builds up a more physical connection to the instrument. It's also good for folks who don't want to learn chord theory, and just play what sounds good -- it's set up to make simple harmonies easy, and there aren't as many wrong notes on the instrument. But at the same time, that makes playing complex or very specific chords more difficult. It's great for a simpler, more rough-and-tumble style.
But what you're describing sounds more like the English to me. Especially if your playing is jazzier, or more chromatic. It's very good at single-line melody, and very good at any sort of chording, the limitations start showing up if you try to play both at once. Of course, with any system, the limitations are an invitation to creative arranging.
If you feel really drawn towards playing full, solo arrangements of varying styles, and want to put in a lot of work, then you may want to start down the duet road.
I've heard stories of people who have started with the system they thought they'd like, but things only really "clicked" when they switched to another. I feel some of the work you put in on one system will help with another, having switched from Anglo to duet myself.
Does that help?
It does help and thank you for commenting. I'm leaning towards barinton english. Illinois
-
You can do a lot more keys and chords on English and you won't need multiple instruments- than an Anglo. As an Anglo player I'd opt for EC in a singing context. Listen to Steve Turner. Although John Kirkpatrick does great on Anglo!
Thanks for all the replies. The only player I know locally uses the concertina mostly for melody work. I've felt I must choose one type or the other so I can progress more rapidly, but maybe I will play awhile with both types. I do like to play by ear, but read just enough music to figure out a tune when I am learning it. Maybe with time, the english will become more natural and I will learn to play by ear using that system. I've never played a really expensive concertina. I'm almost afraid to try one, as I'm afraid I'll get the acquisition disease I keep hearing about.
new in illinois
if you would like to try an expensive concertina, i have a top of the line anglo you could try out, just to see what it's like--you won't run out of air very easily. i'm usually in either dekalb or st. charles, and i teach at murphy roche music irish music school in burr ridge--i also play at elgin public house at least once a month (that seems like it would be the closest to you). i happen to be playing there this sunday from 3-6 pm, so if you would like to stop by and try out my concertina, you're more than welcome. please let me know ahead of time (pm me), so i make sure i dont miss you if you decide to come.
i could also show you some rhythm and chording stuff, beyond just melody, to show you some of the capabilities of the instrument.
I would have loved to hear you play. I'm very busy in the summer, so maybe I can catch your show sometime during the winter. new in Illinois
-
Killinois,
You might consider Baritone English. A bit lower for chords and singing accompaniment and some room for melody. Listen to John Looms Youtube video of the Morse Albion Baritone. It's a better hybrid instrument. Then, if it's appealing, you can call me about mine because I'm really wanting a 69 key Crabb Crane Duet from Chris Alger and need to raise the funds.
What a shameless plug .... I'm so sorry!
Hi. I listened to John Loomis on u-tube and loved the sound. I don't have the funds for that good of an instrument, but it is a great sounding concertina. Illinois
-
Thanks everyone for the input. I've had some company and just sat down tonight and read the additional replies. Right now (this sometimes changes daily) I'm plugging away on the Jackie and the english system. I've also listened to some of the instruments on u-tube and my ear is attracted to the baritone sound. I have to use written music to play the english system, but maybe with time my ear and hands will learn what to do.
I will probably rent a baritone English to also try it. I've seen some reasonably priced Stagi baritone concertinas, but read on one web site that their baritone models had some problems. I've learned a lot of new names recently, Wheatstone, Lachenal, etc. What a facinating history and instrument and I'm amazed at their longevity. The guitar is almost simple by comparison.
Still practicing in Illinois
-
new in illinois
What part of Illinois? I'm in Normal and I play EC.
I'm in Woodstock.
I'm in Rockford, so really close. I have just started learning. You already sound light years ahead!
Farion
Hi Farion. If it sounds that way, you have the wrong impression. I've just started. I just don't know which way to jump so guess I'll play both types for awhile and see what happens. Are you taking lessons?
-
new in illinois
What part of Illinois? I'm in Normal and I play EC.
I'm in Woodstock.
-
You can do a lot more keys and chords on English and you won't need multiple instruments- than an Anglo. As an Anglo player I'd opt for EC in a singing context. Listen to Steve Turner. Although John Kirkpatrick does great on Anglo!
Thanks for all the replies. The only player I know locally uses the concertina mostly for melody work. I've felt I must choose one type or the other so I can progress more rapidly, but maybe I will play awhile with both types. I do like to play by ear, but read just enough music to figure out a tune when I am learning it. Maybe with time, the english will become more natural and I will learn to play by ear using that system. I've never played a really expensive concertina. I'm almost afraid to try one, as I'm afraid I'll get the acquisition disease I keep hearing about.
new in illinois
-
I'd say beware of generalizations (including all the ones you'll see in posts after mine! ). One can (and I've heard this) do this on every system out there. It is such a matter of how your brain is wired that there is no substitute for trying each system for a few weeks to see how you get on. If you are anywhere near Chicago I bet we can figure out who/how to do this. Or you could rent each system from the Buttonbox for a spell.
Beware, it is addictive, and a bit harder to find that ideal instrument than it is for guitar!
Ken
Thanks Ken. I have been playing with the concertina for about a month and I did rent a cheaper english from buttom box and got a pretty good deal on a stagi 30 button diatonic that I love the sound and feel of. The diatonic seems much more intuitive to me, but when I try to keep a steady rhythm for my guitar partner, I find myself running out of air while chording.
-
I'm a newbie concertina player in a duo with another person. We both play guitar. I am trying to figure out which type of concertina would be best for taking melody breaks, and then when my partner takes a break with the guitar, just chording along keeping the rhythm. I like the diatonic as it seems easier to play by ear, while with the english I seem locked to the sheet music. I'm never going to be a speed player, but love the sound of the concertina.
newbie in illinois
wrist straps
in Ergonomics
Posted
Thanks for the web site and drawing. I'm trying to balance the left end of the concertina on one knee and develop a bellows movement that is comfortable and sustainable. Just love the instrument. I also found I am expending move pressure than I really need on the bellows, so have been playing a little more lightly especially with the treble. My wife appreciates that. Again, thanks everyone for the help. I loved the clip with the melodeons.
keith