[How to put photos in a post?]

It works! but it's huge! LOL

 

Isn't it? I didn't say I'd get the scale right!

[How to put photos in a post?]

I'm going to try a different photo site now.

 

 

How's that?

 

Yessss! Pbase works, Flickr doesn't.

 

Andy.

[How to put photos in a post?]

It worked for me in the first one...

 

 

Yes, the link works but the photo doesn't appear in the post.

[How to put photos in a post?]

If I put the link here it'll probably work if you click it.

 

 

Andy

[How to put photos in a post?]

Hi there, I've quite often done an "insert image" in a post, but it just adds the URL link to the photo. I've noticed that some people manage to get the actual photo itself to appear in the posting. Is there a way of doing this or is it just for VIPs?

 

If you have the URL for an image, you don't even have to use an attachment. Just press the little tree icon above the box you're typing in when you post (two icons to the right of the yellow happy face). Paste in the URL of your image. Click "Insert Image." The image will show up in your post, as I've done below. This method does not use any of your storage space on concertina.net, so can be used for as many pictures as you want, of any size.

 

 

Using the "Preview Post" button before you click "Add Reply" can help you make sure everything's formatted correctly.

 

OK here goes. I'm clicking on the "insert image" button above (2nd right from the smiley)

 

The URL is but when I paste it into the little box I get the error message "You are not allowed to use that image extension on this board."

 

I'm guessing that's because it hasnt got .jpg on the end, but that's the actual Flickr link.

 

Andy

[Best wood grain filler?]

Not the easiest stuff to get hold of but cellulose sanding sealer is excellent and very quick and easy to use. It's intended to be sprayed on but works well brushed. Any furniture or instrument maker who uses spray lacquer will have some.

 

I used to use that a lot on furniture, but it's a bit final. I'd rather have something that is closer to the original and can be re-worked, such as shellac based sealer.

Andy

 

Have a word/mail Martyn White who has always been a professional with the bee's knees for French Polishing

mwhite AT polishing.freeserve.co.uk with both hands and more recently a mean squeezer and box repairer... also with both hands!

http://www.melodeonrepairs.co.uk/

 

Thanks for that contact. I'll give Martyn a try.

Andy

[Best wood grain filler?]

Not the easiest stuff to get hold of but cellulose sanding sealer is excellent and very quick and easy to use. It's intended to be sprayed on but works well brushed. Any furniture or instrument maker who uses spray lacquer will have some.

 

I used to use that a lot on furniture, but it's a bit final. I'd rather have something that is closer to the original and can be re-worked, such as shellac based sealer.

Andy

[Best wood grain filler?]

I'm just french polishing a couple of rosewood ends. I'm reasonably experienced at french polishing but the grain is slightly open and I'm not getting a good finish. I've tried plaster of paris with brown umber and red pigments which match the colour perfectly but don't stay in the grain. I have read articles about using pumice powder but I haven't got any at the moment. Any tricks of the trade out there?

BTW They've had 3 good coats of spirit sanding sealer, rubbed down with 1200 grit in between, then 3 sessions of 3-4 coats button polish.

Andy.

Try home-made dyed filler using the following: cascamite, sawdust, spirit dye.

Smooth on and level while still wet.

Sand when dry and before finishing using 600 then 1200 grit.

 

Hope you'll post some pics of your ends when your done.

 

Excellent Steve, I'll try that. Don't get enough Rosewood sawdust unfortunately, but I'm sure I'll find a way.

Thanks. Andy.

[Best wood grain filler?]

I'm just french polishing a couple of rosewood ends. I'm reasonably experienced at french polishing but the grain is slightly open and I'm not getting a good finish. I've tried plaster of paris with brown umber and red pigments which match the colour perfectly but don't stay in the grain. I have read articles about using pumice powder but I haven't got any at the moment. Any tricks of the trade out there?

BTW They've had 3 good coats of spirit sanding sealer, rubbed down with 1200 grit in between, then 3 sessions of 3-4 coats button polish.

Andy.

[How to stop pads falling off!]

greg really knows his stuff. seatbelts are a lifesaver when the first line of defense fails! andy, why so resistant to new pads? you should be much more attached to your reeds and bellows than your pads and valves... that's like wanting to play a stradivarius with its original strings! lucky for us the most important part of an instrument are the reeds, whereas on a violin the varnish and the wood itself (of course) do all the magic.

 

Hi David. Thanks for the input. I suppose I'm slightly of the "if it ain't bust......" camp. Also, I do feel that, whereas with a couple of Lachenal's I'm doing the best way would be to replace all the pads and all the valves, with this Wheatstone, If the various parts are working as they should, it's more respectful to leave alone. It's the old conservation vs. restoration argument, which will never have a clear cut answer.

Andy.

[How to stop pads falling off!]

Andy,

You can glue little "seatbelts" of leather across the pad and bead. A touch of glue where pad and lever arm meet is not a bad idea either.

 

 

I will add the caution that vintage instruments with older pads often experience over springing as previous owners attempt to compensate for less resillient pads.

 

Often a set of new pads affords a chance to decrease the spring tension and restore a lighter touch the instrument (and its player) has not enjoyed for years.

 

Best of luck,

 

Greg

 

(The devil is not only in the details but also the spelling!)

 

Greg, thanks for the "seatbelt" suggestion, although I feel anyone looking at it later might think it was a fault cover up. It looks like the springs are original and it does have a very light action, with the pads sealing every time. I think this instrument has been played most of it's life, unlike some of the attic ones.

Thanks.

andy.

[How to put photos in a post?]

Hi there, I've quite often done an "insert image" in a post, but it just adds the URL link to the photo. I've noticed that some people manage to get the actual photo itself to appear in the posting. Is there a way of doing this or is it just for VIPs?

Andy.

[Source of woods for repairs?]

Frank's suggestions in another thread brought to mind a question I've been wondering about for a while.

 

Where does one get woods like mahogany and rosewood, and other woods used in concertina construction or repair, in the sort of sizes and quantities required?

 

From a quick Google I could probably get a couple of planks of mahogany fairly easily, but from experience in other activities sourcing small quantities can be tricky.

 

Cheers

 

Malcolm

 

Malcolm, I share a workshop with a Harpsichord maker and he gets quite a bit of good quality timber from Geoff Tyler, near Marlborough http://www.tylerhardwoods.com/timber.htm

 

I have used black walnut for small rosewood repairs, very similar colour.

 

Andy.

[what concertina ?]

I,m new to concertinas and this forum Hi everyone

 

I have been a working musician all my working life and there seems rather a lot of conflicting information concerning new/vintage concertinas on the net I want to learn the English concertina and I would appreciate any advice on what instrument I should buy to start on?

 

 

PS:I restore banjos and guitars etc and would eventually like to build concertinas I have started work on a couple of jigs for bellows construction as I’m as passionate about building as playing

 

Thanks

tony

 

Hi Tony. I would suggest that if you know you are definitely committed to learning the EC then you might as well go for as reasonable quality old instrument as you can afford. Luckily, English don't seem to reach the same prices as Anglos for a similar condition. If you're not 100% sure then you could buy a cheapie, get some fingering done and then, when you're sure, move up. Be careful about the tuning though, I've bought two ECs recently and they've both been in "Salvation Army" tuning (1/4 tone high). It sounds like you are likely to be playing with other people and it could be an expensive job having 96 reeds de-tuned.

Good luck.

Andy

[How to stop pads falling off!]

Hope you all had a good and musical Christmas Day.

I am cracking on with refurbishing a Wheatstone english, which is in remarkably good condition for 130 years old! The pads are in quite reasonable condition, all airtight and slightly compressible still.

I don't want to replace them just for the sake of it but I'm very worried about the glue holding them onto the sampers and rod ends. It's still the original animal hide glue by the look of it and very brittle. Any suggestions how to reinforce the joints sympathetically and therefore stop the inevitable happening? I don't want to just gob a load of glue on, but I need to do something with them.

Andy.

[Merry Christmas to All]

I second that. Season's Greetings to all and thanks for being such a helpful andt friendly bunch.

Andy

[Why polish only one side?]

Part of this relates to the quality of wood that is generally available. My father was in the sash & door business, plus custom millwork, late 40's through early 1980's. Much of the wood we bought and used was extremely good quality. Most of it was heartwood, the outer layer wood being considered as only good for strapping or pallets. In fact, a sailboat we built had mahagony decks made from the packing crates that window glass came in.

 

As time progressed, the manufacturing techniques had to adapt to a poorer quality of wood. It wasn't even a matter of choice, the high quality wood just plain wasn't available on the market. Designs also had to change to reflect the poorer properties of the wood.

 

This shows up quite vividly in the later manufacture Wheatstone's where we see ends made from what I know as "Phillipine mahogany" - the stuff that used to be made into packing crates. I just refinished the ends on "the cheapest of cheap" Lachenal (brass reeds, 4 fold, bone keys, 1920's) and in my opinion the quality of the mahogany used is miles better than this "Phillipine mahogany". In fact, it is almost as good as some "Santos rosewood" that I paid a steep price for.

 

So I suspect that it wasn't just the sound quality issue, the quality of timber made it an unnecessary expense to finish the back side. Lachenal's were certainly not prone to unnecessary expenses on their bottom end instruments. I'm pretty sure that if the cheapest way to build these low end concertinas involved finishing the reverse, then that's what we would see.

 

Thanks for that. I too have noticed the degradation of timber over the last 40 years. I guess it's to do with profit margins and ever decreasing supplies. I used to do pattern making and the favourite for intricate designs was Jelutong. Nice 'n stable, soft grain, easily worked. We used to buy 2" boards that were 15" wide and 15' long, straight as a die. I never gave a second thought to environmental issues back then. What would you use in place of Rosewood now?

I don't know if it was an expense thing with the lower end instruments. What does it take to wipe on a bit of shellac (shellac was relatively much cheaper then than it is now). If only we could turn the clock back and have a look!

Seasons greetings to you.

Andy

[Why polish only one side?]

Andy,

it appears to me that,whilst most of the modern furniture in my house is coated (finnished) all over, the older pieces tend not to be. I'm thinking particularly of Table tops which it was allways my impression were varnished, lacquered,waxed etc., whilst the under sides were left un-finnished. I assume that the older pieces were made from well seasoned,air dried, timber and that the bare wood surfaces would allow moisture to come and go naturally with changes in humidity whereas modern 'Kiln dried' timbers would be worked quite quickly after the drying process and then sealed to maintain a specific relative humidity. But I am not a furniture maker so perhaps there is another explaination.

 

I would agree with the point that Greg makes regarding the general rule that musical instruments are only finnished on the outside because a piece of wood which is coated all over does not react in the same way. The reflection of sound waves and their absorbtion at the wood surface will modify the tone and create the quality of sound that that specific wood has been chosen to enable.

 

I choose very particular types of wood for my instruments, for their accoustic properties, and whilst I could decide to coat them all over for the sake of stability I feel this would detract too much from the original intention of their use.

 

Improved stability was the probable reason for the later use of Plywood in the production of concertinas (both for the 'ends' and quite a bit later the reedpans too) but more likely this was due to not having to 'stock' solid wood for many years whilst it stabilised. I recall a conversation with Harry Crabb where he talked about the thick planks of Sycamore that were very gradually planed down, one pass through the planner each year for 25 or more years, untill they reached the required thickness and stability for concertina making.

 

It has long been my opinion that the use of laminated wood for this purpose has to have an adverse effect on the instrument's tone. Each layer and its glue coating combined with the change of direction of the grain (with each layer) can dampen the harmonics of the notes. The original designers chose woods for their accoustic charateristics... that most reedpans have not split along the grain due to the wedging forces of the reed shoes is probably due to the slight squashiness of those reedframes and the super well seasoned wood utilised. The first notice of a swelling reedpan is when the reed tongues start to scrape at their frames and produce buzzing noises due to the wood getting larger and thus the slots for the reed frames get smaller. This can happen with both wood shrincage and swelling due to changes in Humidity.

 

Geoff, that is a fascinating reply. I really didn't imagine that the timber would have so much effect on the sound quality as the ends aren't, strictly speaking, resonant, as they would be in an instrument with a soundboard. Also, you've got your hands all over it, damping any vibrations. However, I am pleased to learn from your experience, it's a long road and I'm only on the first few steps! The timber quality is certainly a huge issue. I believe a rule of thumb for general furniture making is air drying a year for every inch of thickness before it goes in the kiln. I can't imagine that happening these days. I recently bought some Iroko that was measured to be 10-12% and it sprang and twisted so much when cut that it was unusable.

One of the reasons for my initial post was that whenever I leave an end off for a while, it always cups the same way, i.e. up at the edges. This suggests that it is more to do with the one-sided finishing than any stresses left in the timber.

Thanks to you and many on this forum, I am learning this amazing subject at a fantastic rate of knots. Have a peaceful and musical Christmas.

Andy

[Juliette Daum, New Website, New Videos, Now available Digital Download]

Thanks Juliette and a Merry Christmas!

Andy.

[What wood?]

I would have said mahogany, but the colour of the polish can be very misleading. I may be wrong, but I doubt they would have used Oak, the grain is quite open and liable to split, in thin sections. A picture of the inside would be much more revealing. I think most of the Mahogany of that period would have been French and quite brown. Brazilian Mahogany would be more orange in colour so you'll have to be careful finding a bit that's the right colour for repairs.

Here's a Mahogany end from a Lachenal, the inside is a lovely brown colour, the outside - not nice.

 

 

Andy

 

Well, here's an inside picture - sorry it's not particularly clear because the chamois is nicely stuck down http://s1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff429/bettyslippers/?action=view&current=cameradump-tobesorted017.jpg

 

Definitely Mahogany!

Andy

[French Polish?]

I think you'd be looking at around £150 + p&p.

Andy.

[What wood?]

Sorry Theo, not actually French grown. It is, as you say, a tropical hardwood and "French Mahogany" came from the French colony of Saint Dominique (now Haiti). However, I've re-thought my posting and it probably came from Honduras which (my history isn't so good) might have been British?

Andy.

[Why polish only one side?]

That's very interesting Greg. I must say I hadn't considered the acoustic effects. I can see that a sealed timber would reflect more than an unsealed surface. I'm also intrigued as to why the longitudinal reed frames didn't eventually split the timber along the grain. Some of them are very tight into the slots.

Andy.

Sorry double post oops!

[Why polish only one side?]

That's very interesting Greg. I must say I hadn't considered the acoustic effects. I can see that a sealed timber would reflect more than an unsealed surface. I'm also intrigued as to why the longitudinal reed frames didn't eventually split the timber along the grain. Some of them are very tight into the slots.

Andy.

[Why polish only one side?]

Hello all, coming from a furniture making background, it has always surprised me that the concertinas I have had have only been finished on one side. The inside never appears to be sealed. This leads to uneven moisture absorption and consequently twisting. the cheaper instruments would not have been made with quarter sawn timber so the effect would have been even worse. I'm interested to know whether modern makers (there are a few here) would agree with sealing both sides of the wood and, in the case of veneering, whether they would use a balancing veneer on the reverse side.

Andy.