Michael Marino
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Posts posted by Michael Marino
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Currently contacting a reed maker in the Czech republic to look at making a new set of plates to modern concert pitch as I can't bring myself to destroying history by retuning the plates.
Michael
Sorry, but I fail to understand your concerns here. How will a retune destroy history? A fairly simple task to any competent repairer I would have thought.
And can you absolutely guarantee that the present tuning is the original tuning? Reed pitch can change with use (and abuse!), even without the intervention of a tuner.
Fitting a new set of Czech reeds I would consider a greater case of destroying history.
MC
The reeds currently in the instrument match known tuning of the period and are within tune enough that I would not want to do anything but return them to that tuning. Which at A=438 and harmonic scale make them not easily playable with other modern instruments. The firm I am working with will be cutting to fit a set of bayan reeds which are the same type of construction as was used in the original. This allows me to re valve the originals and maintain them as well as have an instrument that will be able to play with other modern instruments. There will be no other changes to the instruments structure or design as that is very unacceptable.
Hope that clarifies things. Retuning is not the problem, have and am doing that on a few Lachenals bringing them to concert pitch. Just don't want to do it to an instrument like the Harmonium that I own which is also in near perfect Philharmonic pitch (A=452) as that would be altering in a fashion undesirable to my lady wife who likes it as is and can play with modern instruments with it.
Michael
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Okay Folks,
I broke down and bought a Chemnitzer on Ebay to see what the "other" style of concertina is like as progressing with playing the Anglo and the wife has taken over the English pretty much (I will break down and learn it one of these days).
It is a basic 38 button square box Chemnitzer Right.
It is marked as a F Lange, okay I know the history, but ......
Open it up to start doing a inventory of condition and looking at what might need replacing and/or repair and what do we find???
Numbered inside 396 with the stamp of "F. Lange, vorm. Uhlig - next line- CHEMNITZ, Sachen." This is in Purple ink with the hand numbered 396 written what appears to be blue pencil by somebody who passed their handwriting class very well in school.
Now comes the fun part is that she is mostly in tune to herself at A=438 and harmonic scale not Equal temperament.
Currently contacting a reed maker in the Czech republic to look at making a new set of plates to modern concert pitch as I can't bring myself to destroying history by retuning the plates.
Truly interesting piece of history here. Beautiful papers as well and single card construction. I mean the standing reed blocks are thread mounted to the action plate. This was very very well built. and it is only missing two mother of pearl buttons on the outside and a few of the metal end caps. Seriously looking forward to getting her fully up and playable though will not be looking forward to the needed re valve job as need to get a glue that works well with metal and leather and if I remember right hide glue is not the best for it. Will find a solution that doesn't damage it though.
Some pictures are attached below. Any and all comments please.
Michael
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Having read all the articles before this post, might I point out some problems with midi.
1) Power, all MIDI instruments require external sources of electrical power and often are picky about the type they will use.
2) Cost, to get the quality of MIDI based instrument that will truly match what the physical instrument can do is as or more expensive than the orthodox instrument.
3) Purity/Impurity, it is the impurity of a "natural" instrument that gives the ability to hear the secondary untones and harmonics that make so many instruments unique.
4) Data Storage, With a physical instrument you store the information to play it in you brain and spinal cord and there it remains, it can become adapted with very little skill to other instruments and only requires access to an instrument to be given a venue to express. MIDI and other types of Audio files (MP3 being one of the worse and most used) require massive storage space to truly match analog or "natural" wave length patterns that we hear from an orthodox instrument.
As to the argument of Diatonic or Chromantic, Hemitonic, etc. Please remember that A4=440Hz is still not an excepted standard world wide as the orient tends to use A4=444Hz and than there is Philharmonic which still uses wonderful A4=452. There is a wonderful church organ here in the UK that was tuned originally to A4=390Hz. So Technology does not always equal better.
It does not also mean worse but should be taken in measure. The Emotive measure of any music is subject in the extreme and deals with so many social psychological dependents to render it little more than academic babble used to support the current fashion of an ideology and is quicksand at best to stand upon it.
Do what you wish to do and to others who enjoy theory and diverse types of music please let us know and how it works out but go into it with care and the expectation that it can all go horribly right and wrong . That way what you get out might even surprise or disgust yourself. We often go into these things wanting other to tell us how great they are and to some they may be to others they mostly are not. So do it enjoy and let us know where we can listen to a high quality sound clip (yout tube is not the greatest for that unfortunately) and good luck
Michael
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Have an update and further question (finding answers does this at times). Okay for key layout you can go to www.concertinamusic.com/sbox/keyboard.html and there is information there which should help you a good bit as it is helping me alot.
Now here is the problem, it is a 38 button Chemnitzer most likely early model as it is tuned to Harmonic pitch, with A=438, and is in the key of C. Personally the idea of retuning her completely is heretical to me but I would like to be able to play with other instruments; so..... .....Since I know these really good folks in the Czech republic I am looking at asking them if they would be willing to make a set of reeds for her that match modern concert pitch and very carefully store the originals in a storage piece that I will make for them (Setting so the valves will be hanging down and not on their sides). Any input on this would be welcomed. She is a wonderful instrument and sounds good now and looks like it is going to be wonderful to play. I just hope that I don't have to replace these beautiful bellows anytime soon. To correct my earlier statement they have what appears to be a gold/silver ink type stamping that has going from front to back a Lyre, Lute, Chemnitzer Concertina. With between them an upright capital U and a stylized capital L woven into the U, with tasteful filigree along the edges. Looks very similar to one pictured in Harry Geuns collection only it has the F. Lange logo across from the air vent grill.
Thanks for any and all in
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To add more fun to the mess.
I have acquired a 38 button "F. Lange, Chemnitz Saxony" Chemnitzer Concertina. I can not find a layout for the 38 button item at all. it is numbered on both sides in an interesting fashion. As there are whole numbers and fractionals which go as below:
Left Hand
1 2 3 4 0
5 6 7 8 9 1/0
10 11 12 13 14
Right Hand
2/0 1/0 1 2 3 4 0
4/0 3/0 5 6 7 8 9 15
6/0 5/0 10 11 12 13 14
It is "Tradional" squarish shaped with with voicing holes drilled on the right besides the forward facing three large holes on each side. The Air lever works fine and is intact. The instrument appears to be in tune to itself (over all flat by a variation of about 12 to 16 cents) though there are a few exceptions (using TuneIt Software with a Plantronics microphone). So before I go trying to bring the beauty into "proper" tuning is there anything I should know about a pre 1939 accord (that caused A=440 to come into existence) German instrument should be tuned. As we own a Harmonium that is and will remain tuned to A=452 (Old Victorian). As my intent is to get into as playable condition as possible as the bellows are in outstandingly good condition for their age and are beautiful purple with silver printing centered is a Lute and on both sides an upright U with what appears to be a stylized L woven into it (I will weep greatly when the day comes that they have to be replaced and will do my best to have them reproduced to maintain the beauty).
It has a single central frame which has fillagre edge caps. A number of the other edge caps have come of and either need to just be re affixed or replaced as not all the missing ones came with it (luckily have a good source for accordion parts and should be able to get some that match).
So, does Any know what the note pattern should be to the above number layout? The next question is can anyone give me a reasonable time frame of manufacture? I know pre WW II but how far is a different story.
Thanks for any and all information.
Michael
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Still giving gifts as the season is not ended and the Epiphany gifts still need to be given the kids. The gifts to Family filled four boxes and was well recieved by all who we sent to (which was all the immediate family). We have a few other gifts to give and some food items we where given and won't use so will find some students or other folks for that before the season ends.
But than again alot of english speakers seem to have forgotten the true lenght or reason for the season and well... ...their loss.
Michael
Keep Christ in Christmas
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Well our "Christmas" present (bought in September and arrived in December) is a free reed instrument and therefore has bellows (looks like suction type on this model). has 5 octaves Starting in F1 for her main voice though the sub bass goes even further down though very limited (1 octave range). She has 13 stops, bass and treble couplers, a non functioning Vox Humana (tremolo) and needs a good bit of work though only has 9 reeds that don't speak and is tuned to A4= 452. This leaves us with the crux of deciding whether to leave her at 452 or retune to 440 very difficult choice and have not made up our minds yet. It was my gift to my wife (an organ student in the Diocesan program of St Andrews & Edinburgh). She also has two knee levers one that is Grand Forte (as was common with the left knee lever)and the other is a swell primarily for the Treble section. The only problem is her crown was cut off at sometime ago and need to find out what it would have been and some time in the future replace it.
We have also gotten a signed copy of Mr. Gellerman's book from him and love it as it adds to my knowledge and will be a great help in restoring her with the other book we have gotten by Mr. Ord-Hume.
Picture below of our new member of the family, a harmonium.
A Merry Christmas to all (Christmas doesn't end till Epiphany). Well we just won an auction on Ebay for a Lachenal 48 button brass reeds that I get to repair for the Wife which will be alot of fun for me as get to rebuild one and also have the fun of hearing her play it afterwards (tend towards Anglo myself).
Michael
Keep Christ in Christmas
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I own a Rochelle and purchased it from Wim directly. Button Box or Bob Tedrow are the best for follow up service and help on that side of the Atlantic (Live in the UK). Send Wim or Bob a message or David Elliot and they will be able to help. Wim's contact website is www.concertinaconnection.com and I am very sure he will do what is reasonable with aiding you (short of giving refund as you didn't buy it through him and would be unjust to ask such). Both he and his lady wife are very helpful and considerate people.
The Rochelle does have some break in time (about a month and a half playing once a day to every other for about an hour to an hour and a half). One of the levers likes getting a bit wonky at times but that started after my "wonderful" daughter was able to climb up and pull it off a table (yes i lost a few hairs that day both for worry with the Rochelle and that my daughter couyld cause one to fall on top of her [she is currently 15months old])
So that is my suggestions and happy playing. though you might want to tell Wim about this dealership as if they are going to give crappy follow up service the bad rap is not worth it. Wim moved factories in China in order to keep the quality up and improve upon it. There are alot of Chinese nightmares out there (We own a English 30 button that i will be changing the reeds out to european grade as the rest of the structure is quite air tight, the only other change will be to put some covering on the pinky rest so as to decrease the fatigue that my wife gets from that).
Good Luck and good playing.
Michael
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First we are discussing Wiki; which in my very humble opinion is a very bad joke and I am a member of it. There is a quote that is ascribed to Samuel Clemens though he in his life denied being the creator of though greatly agreed with it and it goes:
In this Great age (the Industrial age peak during the 1900's) we have more and more information at a mans disposal, the effect of such is this:
For all the Words the Meaning is lost.
In loss of meaning the Knowledge is Lost
Without this knowledge, Wisdom is lost
And for this we now have a society full of words and sensibility but lacking any form of sense or wisdom.
The Above is to my knowledge the complete quote though the wording may not be completely correct and I ask any who knows the full quote to please correct me.
Wiki is flawed, there is no way to correct it, but many of us try (yes we are very foolish).
I own a 20 button Lachenal (brass reeds), a Rochelle (need to ask Wim about a problem if I remember), and a Chinese nightmare 30 button English. I have friends who own Accordions and Melodions and they don't sound at all alike.
Now the Rochelle and the Chinese both have much better condition bellows than my Lachenal (which is something we are going to be correcting soon). But the Chinese and the Rochell also have very different sound characteristics as well. Though both use "Accordion reeds". Also the modern Accordion reed has changed over time and adapted properties in certain areas that where once assigned to the concertina. But that is just from reading the available history and construction books possible.
I also own a harmonium which sounds decidedly different than any of the above. The voice of a "traditional reeded" instrument of the time period when these instruments where in their hey day is different again from what you will find with many of the extremely well built modern instruments of either design due to the level of craftsmanship has once again returned to a high quality at a level of production that allows a greater amount of people to purchase the instrument. Wim and a few other also do many of us a favor by making and instrument that has the form of a higher quality instrument while keeping the price down.
Therefore it comes down to choice and personal opinion and to each their own and may they enjoy it as long as they don't shove it down my throat or try to make it an artificial "standard" that all shall be judged by. Surely the majority of this group is mature enough to stand on their feet and say the words " In my opinion" instead of trying to state that it is the reality of all.
Though I find it interesting that the persons who have edited it towards biases are makers of "traditional" concertinas and therefore place a great deal of discredit upon themselves by showing such open biases and contempt for "hybrid" built instruments.
Note Having had written discourse with the person whom those posts (those referred to in the above paragraph) where attributed to and having been informed that another person had been accessing the account during that time period. I retract my observation, as it is incorrect and the real world is a strange place.
Good on you for trying to fight the good fight but know that we fight nearly in vain (ask me about Italian Café sometime and i will show you a pack of lies parading as truths on Wiki and where to get the documents to prove it but you must read Italian)
Michael
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Currently semi "iso" as the wife plays violin and is picking up English (doing very well also) Working on getting to a social event but it is difficult with two kids and a very anti family society as we have here in the UK (try going out after 7pm any night with kids and get a dinner).
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Would like to see the full information from the person above with a detailed case. My back ground is a US trained DC with all but exam for Olympic level post grad cert' in Sport Sciences Diploma (en route to a post grad' masters in the same). The mechanics of most frozen shoulders usually stem from RSI or imbalance of the muscle groups/kenetic chains in the area. Do to conditioned neural patterns it can be a bit difficult to break but with a willing patient have done it on many occasions.
Currently not in Practice as dealing with a health issue myself but still keeping up with studies and activities in the field. when moving the bellows the primary groups that should be working are: Posterior: Rhomboids (both), Lat' Dorsi, Teres (Both); Anterior: Pect' Major. Now ther are other muscles involved with this grouping and postural chains that can cause adaption as well. Frozen shoulder is often imbalances of lat' dorsi/teres grp v. Pectoralus grp; though there are variations that differ. Bursitis of the sub clavicular bursa can also play a part in this as well. The amount of weight lifters that I have helped retrain their Erector chains to balance out over training of pect's and anterior muscles is just sad.
For those working out a real simple rule of thumb when strenghtening is this:
Order of muscle strengthening is:
Aerobic before mass always (it is very difficult to go the other way and much easier to do long term damage, also reshaping cell form is much more difficult)
Intrinsic muscles (those that start movement or maintain system tension ( these are small muscles and don't move far but are very important))
Extensors as excluding the hand they should be trained and tensioned to a higher degree than flexors
Lastly Flexors.
The above rules seem simple but you would be surprised at the number of people who don't apply them and are considered to "know" how to train the body. The damage I have seen many times over my years of practice (too many).
Oh by the way working on modifying the hand exercises that we use with kids and climbers for concertina play (enlightened self interest always helps). If anyone is interested will look into creating a dvd of the info once done though the video won't be professional grade i am afraid.
Michael
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Hi All
Just a few of the usual questions asked by almost every new member, I have found in the search engine of this site.
I have decided to take up this instrument after sitting in the musical shadows of my brothers for the past 20 years.
I am thinking of buying this
Would anyone have any thoughts on it. I know that it is cheap and that it would prolly put me off more than encourage me but I am fairly skint.
I have decided to go with the english system though I am not sure why I am drawn to this more than the anglo.
What tutor book/'tina combo would people recommend if I had a bit more money?
I am currently in Denmark working, though I live in Southampton UK, I will be passing through Aberdeen on my way home. Are there any good shops in these areas that I could go and have a play to see which style I would get on with?
Any thoughts on my ramblings would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Steve
Steve,
We live in Edinburgh if that is on your way back coming down from Aberdeen. Though there is a good group of folks up there from what I have heard (was not able to make the squeeze earlier this fall). If you can get them it would be a good way to get some footing. We have a 30b Anglo (Rochelle), 30b English (Jackie style knock off from China [not the same quality at all Wim], and a 20b Anglo Lachenal. So if you wanted to stop and play a bit it could be arranged and I could burn a copy of the different free tutors I have on hard drive for you to disk with a the music.
Let us know if you are interested.
Michael
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Hello,
Newish Player here in Edinburgh and looking for other players that would be interested in getting together for jam and fun as well as helping each other out. Please let me know who is interested.
Also i have taken the Pdf of Sedgwick's work and cleaned it up and reformatted it back to a pdf and need to know who i could get it to to load it up to one of the website so that people could download it for use.
Michael
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We have:
- 20b C/G Lachenal Anglo (number are registered with Chris Algar)
- 30b Rochelle from Wim and enjoying it and think the engineering is awesome
Non concertina free reed
- 2 Hohner Silver harmonica for fun with my Son
- 2 Blue Danube plastic wonders harmonicas that the Son takes on travel (Son is going on 4 yrs old this December)
Waiting on
- 30b knock off English
- A Harmonium that we just acquired and are having shipped up to us with 13 stops and 3 couplers with a 5 octave spread
Non free reed
- 2 student grade Violins that have been modified and tuned, with more tuning to be done when time and money permits
- 1 Yamaha plastic Sopranino (for teaching the Son on)
- 1 Yamaha plastic recorder (Treble)
In the works plans for building a 36b C/G Anglo
Michael
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Interesting Article,
Now let's look behind the green curtain and see what gives.
1) Dates and details are off and one source does not a foundation give. Which means very lazy journalism, nothing new here.
2) From statements on this discussion the "expert" seems to have diverse motives and is looking to create a buzz for a item to sell. This leads me to believe he is wanting to cash in a volume of concertinas that he has acquired from diverse sources and wants to seed the market for his benefit in a couple of ways.
3) When the journalist was approached by a member of our group who does play and know the history of the instrument there was no interest for correction to be made. That means to me that the article was a pay off to a favor owed.
Given the above points, my best suggestion is have a few of our truly knowledgeable members (oh, I don't know there is a good long list that comes to mind) and write a document dealing with the evaluation and diverse values of concertinas given different makers and time periods. To my knowledge this has not been done in a way that could be presented to the public (those who invest in strange things or those who might have interest).
The benefit is the public having a better understanding of the instrument and what we can/cannot play. The down side is the con artists and GRQ schemes you will see pop out of the wood work for a short time and the greedy investment minded persons who don't really know what they are doing but read the book and want a piece of history.
Just an idea as it also would give credentials to the authors/editor of the book and if it was worded to show in a balanced view the differing views held within the community it could increase our numbers and aid in the enjoyment of our fun.
Michael
PS willing to help but not an expert by any means but know how to organize and help people keep to deadlines
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Unfortunately there seems to be a dirth of them these days. With some of them being very questionable in their information or quality.
From a humble beginner who has more than a few years experience working and running auctions in real time physical type. Just some of the descriptions alone levae me wanting to ask a whole lot of questions and then looking at some of their online stores answers my question in much lesss than a positive light.
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If you (or anyone) comes up with a good high-res image of this (or any other brand) of label, I'd be willing to post it in the Museum section for others to access also.
Ken
If anyone wants to send me pics of the labels they want a replica of i will give it a go as I am a some what skill calligrapher and have more than a few years of art training (classical) and Drafting under my belt and could probably make an exact copy from any images you want. All I would need is an original in moderate to passable condition and I would be able to make something in high definition for reduction to print.
Michael
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upon hearing you sad fate with the Chinese (most likely) made box the problems I have had with my used but functioning Lachnel seem minor.
As an aside question (and I believe it has been asked before but can't find the file), of the following which is considered the better purchase for a beginner 30 key Anglo:
Rochelle by Button Box (Chinese made to meet a European QA)
Stagi (Chinese in Italian clothing???QA??)
Hohner D60 (Possible Chinese, Possible German, have heard conflicting information on the D60)
Stephanelli (Chinese in Italian name from a Scottish group that is than QA in Scotland)
There are a few others but I don't know enough about them and don't know if they are Chinese resales.
Stephanelli I have played at a local music shop and sounds tinny/sharp compared to a D60 (used) that was next to it and to my Lachnel (Brass reeds).
So opinions please with some supporting reasons if possible or direction to a link here to go digging.
Also anyone know a good site for German music for the twenty button Anglo-Germand Concertina?
Thanks,
Michael
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Thanks for the advise will take it in and see how goes. Here are some points I am looking at before doing anything to reed profiles:
1) Buying a better sound card as the one I have varies from -12 cents to +6 cents when TuneIt does auto calibrate (I do this every time that I set about tuning an instrument since I don't leave the computer on and temp' does make a difference).
2) Buying a better Microphone to get a good bit better pick up as moving the Mic' does change which note is being picked up and that is with any of the instruments we play not only those that can be/are tuned.
Since I know of a few professional who swear by TuneIt with the right Mic' and sound card that leaves only a few loose ends to get things better and more accurate in sound. As i plan on playing this both at church and also with other musicians in public the tuning is very important. With that said it seems the secondaries are wanted as long as they are not discordant or strong to the ear than the desired note. Basically a case of impurity creating purity. Not a problem as it part of the analog/digital/Live argument and i know which side of that one I am on.
This also helps with some of the other design work that i am doing so thanks twice.
Also does any know what the accidental keys are on a Hohner (German, notice 2 H's) 30 key anglo and the key structure on their English as the website doesn't say.
Michael
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I own a 20 Keys lachnel Brass reeded concertina. I have restored as much as currently possible on the budget I have and am in the process of getting the money together to put new bellows on it (thank you mister Tedrow for that wonder video that will help with the assembly of the new bellows).
The item that Have come across in doing fine tuning on it is that you get multiple harmonics off of a reed and at times the secondaries show up as stronger than the primary that I want. Now this is not just a problem with my concertina. When tuning my wifes Violin I need to at times tune to the key wanted instead of the key the mic is picking up with the key wanted.
I am using TuneIt 3.43. Which as long as I calibrate it against the sound card before using it each time (I turn my computer off when not in use as they eat a good bit of current) I brring the computer up and the program up to tune something I get very good tuning out of it. Will be improving the sound in the future but tested independently with a concert tuner my tuning is with 3 to 4 cents and i tune to +/- 1.5 cents when possible (the concertina I tune to 3 cents as pressure changes cause a bit to much havoc at present, hopefully new bellows will fix part of that).
My question in this is there any way known to reduce/remove the secondary harmonics of the reeds by shaping and if so what are they? I realize that it is possible in theory, what I want to know is it possible practically. The concertina is a wonderful instrument and I am very much enjoying playing it and learning about it. Only the more I learn the more i am wondering how to refine the notes to a pure form with which to produce even better quality sound with. Yes I know that that 20 key Lachnel is a bottom of th barrel for its time concertina but the brass reeds sound wonderful and really need to get the new bellows to give a much more even pressure to it so that I can get even sound production across the movement (yes I work very hard to keep pressure even and speed even when tuning and when playing songs that require it).
Thanks already to Chris Algar for the information he has given and also to David Leese for his work and aid in getting the one I have right now up and playing.
So any discussion on the above question and pointers on possibilities would be greatly helpful. For tools I have a Jewelers loop #2.5 a set of jewelers files and a flex shaft tool similar to a dremel and a good selection of bits.
Again thanks for any information or ideas. NO I don't want to retune it to steel reeds that is my next project after this is fully working is either a steel reed Hohner 30 key Anglo or building a 36 key Anglo myself (using Czech reeds)
Michael
Jeffries With Odd Damage
in Instrument Construction & Repair
Posted
Well from ther Picture it looks like a set of ham hands got to it after a bit of woodworm. The pitting looks like some very classic cases of woodworm that I have seen over the years and not a nice thing it is at all. The Ham hands that did the rest of the damage might have been trying to repair for the other damage but I see no rhyme or reason that follows that. Don't know whic would be better. Replacing the action board and therefore limiting any further possible problems with the woodworm or using an agent that doesn't due the action any damage to kill the woodworm and use a filler to restore the stability to the cation board and go from there. The Human mishaps that has happen to it would take a good close looking at to see what would be needed to bring the beauty up to good playing condition. From the looks of it I personally would opt for the replacement action board being made (I don't like this option but there seems to be a good bit of damage there and don't know if it has gone through the action completely or not).
Just me two pence worth. Good luck, and no I can't work on it unless you are willing to ship it to the UK and there are more experienced folk near you so send it to them first.
Michael (madly rebuilding an english and new bellows for a 20b Anglo and 3 Melodeons, Yes I am mad)