Craig Wagner
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Posts posted by Craig Wagner
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This is an IMPORTANT REPOST to my original message - Thanks to an observant C-Net reader, that counted the buttons on the pictures I posted! THIS IS A SUTTNER A5 35 Button (not A4 38 button). I'm emailing this change to all of you who have sent me email inquiries on this. I posted 5 concertinas for sale that day, and mislabeled this one. I haven't figured out how to change the title of this posting which still indicates a 38 button...
Jeffries design Anglo concertina by Juergen Suttner. 35-Button A5 model by in C/G. A gorgeous instrument in both appearance and tone - made by the excellent German craftsman. Solid ebony ends, ebony hand grips, 7-fold bellows, steel reeds, with sturdy original case. This is Anglo from Suttner is in perfect working order, ready for sessions, recording or just enjoyment. The concertina is fairly stunning to look at – it is all black (the bellows and black ebony) and silver (all buttons, screws and hardware). In tune, A=440. In like-new condition since it is only 3 years old. Instrument # 211. The bellows are air tight.
See the full detail on the A5 at http://www.suttnerconcertinas.com/catalogue.html. Juergen does not provide a 35 button diagram on his site, so when I get back home, I'll write one up and include it in this posting. The button layout on the first two buttons on the accidental row on the right side is a Jeffries variant (C#/C# on button one and F#/D# on button two – push/pull) to match the layout used by Noel Hill (if it is good enough for Noel, it’s good enough for me!). This gives a very handy push F# that matches the pitch of the pull F# on the right side first row, first button. Also note that it has a draw low E and a push low F# and other duplicated notes that help the fingering/bellowing patterns on those very fast reels.
This concertina has been my main squeeze since I purchased it so it has received a loving break-in. I’m selling it to help finance my son’s college education.
Suttner concertinas are in great demand and he currently has a long waiting list (48 month estimate). Avoid the long delay and get into a high-end instrument now. The list price for this instrument is 4,320 Euros (4,090 base price plus 230 ebony ends). Today’s conversion rate makes that $5,738. I will sell it for $6,100 plus shipping and insurance. If sold through Concertina Net, I’ll make a donation to Paul for his great work on our collective behalf.
I haven’t seen a Suttner on the market for a while, so contact me soon to get your hands on a great concertina! Also, I’ll leave the “damp-it” humidity tube in the case – be sure you keep your concertinas at the right humidity, it will make them last forever (at least a lot longer than you and I will be around)!
Thanks,
Craig Wagner
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Hello Concertina aficionados,
I'm looking for a Crane (triumph) system duest. I would rather get one of the snmaller 35key types, as I know they generally run lower in price.
If you have an old Crane/Triumph you might think of parting with, send me an email.
Greetings... I just had my Triumph returned from the Button Box for a complete refurbishing... Pads, valves, springs, A=440 tuning, and cosmetics... That maintenace cost was $1600 (you are welcome to contact the Button Box and ask Bob what he thought of the concertina)... I therefore have $3200 into the box... It is gorgious 55 key... I have a number of concertinas and this is the most mellow tone of the bunch (including my recent Dipper)... I would sell it for my cost, $3200
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Michael,
With the "Noel Hill" layout, you can still do a very smooth B-C#-D draw... As you do today, use the left hand for the B and D, and use your first finger on your right hand for the C# (instead of the 2nd finger -presumably - that you use today)...
The only thing you can't do with the "Noel Hill" layout is a B-C# draw on the right hand only since it requires the same first finger... Whenever I need a B-D# quickly, I do it on the push.
Onward,
Craig
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Greetings,
I currently own the 38-key Suttner with ebony ends, C/G. I also play other anglos, and so I find that I gravitate toward learning a tune on the home 30-keys, since if I use the extra keys on the A3, I can't play the tune on my other concertinas.
Another thought: the ebony is gorgious, but does add to weight. The instrument is somewhat heavy anyway and the ebony just adds to it, though I've become accustomed to it. Also, Juergen warns that the ebony might crack. My A3 has held up well, but my A2 (G/D) has developed hairline cracks in the ends - cosmetic only, but still unfortunate.
I had "button envy" a while ago where I thought the more the merrier. After a while, I realized that having more buttons, in some ways, makes it harder... You have so many options of how to play a certain passage that it is harder to etch a tune into your memory...
So my recommendation is going to 30 buttons, that is what my current dipper order is... But, my preference of the RH accidental row is what Noel Hill uses..... C#/C# on the first button is really handy... Also, put the push F# on the second key... Be sure to have a pull G on the accidental row as well, I use the pull F#, G, A on the right all the time...
Hope it helps.
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Ouch!! Pierre was a very kind man... We struck up an acquaintence after I bought a concertina from him a number of years ago... He called me out of the blue one day from Australia just to chat of things concertina... He loved the building process, and as I recall, his early concertinas took him a full year to make since he hand-crafted every part, except for the screws... He will be missed.
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Hi Martin,
I thought I posted a message before, but perhaps I didn't... Yes, I'm very interested in purchasing your great looking box. I'll be in the London area March 6-10 and would be very interested in taking it for a test drive. I trust I'll be impressed and want to buy it then and there...
Thanks,
Craig
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Howdy all,
Haven't been exercising my fingers on concertina.net in a long time... I haven't seen any comments on the ebay jeffries at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...3AUS%3A1&rd=1... There seem to be a lot of scams going on, any thoughts on this listing? I sent the seller a message and received a reply, but when I asked if he would sell through escrow, I haven't heard back yet.
Thanks,
Craig
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$1000
in Buy & Sell
Nathan,
I agree with Henk's comment... Try to find a used "mid-tier" accordion reeded instrument. There are a variety of good ones out there now... They have the advantage of new solid construction and fast action. You probably won't find one for $1000, but $1300-$1400 should get you a nice instrument. Also, you should be able to get close to 100% of your money out of it if/when you sell it... Don't go for a cheap lachenal....
Onward,
Craig
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Jim,
I'll see if I can head off to the post office today to get it weighed, then will post a reply... the best I could do from home is +/- 3 pounds from my bathroom scale (probably not to the precision you had in mind)! Alan, I had no idea they were going for so much new!
Onward,
Craig
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John Connor 31 Button C/G Metal End Anglo
Like me, you may have been one of the gazillion people interested in the County Clare Dipper recently given visibility on this site. Although Dipper-envy is a hard affliction to cure, you might be interested in a John Connor 31-button C/G for thousands less that has the similar advantages of new construction, authentic steel concertina reeds and a comfortable smaller size.
The concertina is tuned to A=440 with a full touch-up tuning done in October ‘03. The buttons are configured in a Wheatstone format (RH 3rd row notes are Push/Pull: C#/D#, A/G, G#/Bb, C#/D#, HighA/F….) The reed pan is laid-out horizontally, like a Jeffries, for flexibility in sizing the reed chamber for optimum sound quality.
The concertina has raised metal ends, metal buttons, concertina steel reeds (not accordian), and adjustable thick black leather hand straps. The ends are stainless steel, so they look pristine, unlike other metal ends that have a tendency to tarnish. It has a 6 fold black bellows that are absolutely air tight. There is left thumb drone (C on draw and push) that allows for some wonderful pedal-point work. The tone is bright allowing you to hold your own in sessions as well as providing clarity for recording.
It is a comfortable size, 5 7/8” across the parallel sides which is 1/8” to 1/4" smaller than many concertinas. This very slight reduction in size allows a reduction in weight (weight is important for session-speed concertina playing) and also has all keys within easy reach. The concertina was made about 5-6 years ago, I believe, and I bought it about 3 years ago for session playing. Being just a titch smaller, it can be a great instrument if you have somewhat smaller hands though I've got big paws and get around the instrument without a feeling of being cramped.
The concertina is in immaculate condition. The “Connor” name is stamped on the right end plate. It has a consistent and fast riveted action with bushed buttons. The end-bolts do not show a flaw. Trying to really search for some problem, there is the slightest cosmetic scuffing on the underside of the bellows. The concertina comes with a custom blocked case made by John Connor that is closable without key, but lockable with key (key included). There is some scuffing on the interior and exterior of the box, but it is fully serviceable.
I live in the Ann Arbor, Michigan area. If you are in the area, please contact me and come by for a squeeze (just be forewarned, it can be habit forming!). Additionally, I see no hope in curing my concertina passion and will be buying concertinas, having them fixed-up and selling them for some time to come. If you buy a later concertina from me, I'll give a 100% trade-in on the previous one you bought from me (obviously, trade-ins need to be in comparable condition to when I sold it to you).
The concertina is selling for $3200 USD. I would be happy to email photos out to you. Realizing that concertinas are a personal investment, I will allow you 5 days to play the instrument and, if for any reason it doesn’t suit your fancy, return it, I’ll refund your money (less shipping/insurance). Buyer pays for shipping and insurance (approximately $35 if in the US).
Please let me know if I can answer any other questions for you. Also, feel free to call me at 248-486-7921 (day) or 248-437-6709 (eve) and I would be happy to play the concertina over the phone for you, answer questions, etc. – I’m in Eastern US time zone.
Thanks,
Craig Wagner
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I would like to buy your instrument... I'll send you a separate email to connect on the specifics. I do have a concertina friend in the Seattle area, and it would be good if he could hear it. I can send you a check shortly.
Thanks,
Craig
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All,
Having never strayed too far from the key of G, D and C and their relative minors for playing melody on the Anglo, I forced myself to learn a tune in the key of A... I can't think of the name of the tune right now but it is on the first page of O'Neill's 1001.... I found it hard to get my fingers and brain moving where they should... . I quickly realized that I should use the pull A on the G row of the left side as opposed to the pull A on the C row (that I used more frequently) since I need the index finger for the G# often played right before/after the A. I also needed to experiment around with which E to use (the pull E on the G row left side or the push E on the C row right side) - as it turned out, I used both Es depending on the situation.
There are a number of great tunes in A and, regrettably, I've never really looked at them. But now, with one tune under my belt, I'll see what else I can do with it.
Onward,
Craig
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Helen,
Many good sources:
O'Neill's 1001 - the Bible... I would recommend getting the original version, there have been a couple of versions after it... But, it is the one that people mention...
Frank Edgley has a couple of books and one on the way that he has selected especially for concertina...
Smoke in your eyes - Kevin Gow, a contributor to our forum... 600+ tunes
Then some great tunes in Breandan Breathnach's Ceol Rince na hEireann... 5 volumes that I know of...
God luck,
Craig
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Morgana,
Your feedback is consistent with what I've heard elsewere, so I'll number them 1= index... 4=pinky...
I'm not assuming any music theory knowledge, but am assuming that the tutor will be geared for intermediate and advanced players. I think you need to be grounded in melody playing and have a good sense of where the buttons are before tackling chording - especially in the effort of adding chording to melody playing.
Onward,
Craig
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All,
I will make the correction in the original post. My apologies. I encourage us all to make this the last post in the sequence. Further comments will likely add to the confusion.
Thanks,
Craig
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Argggghhhh... That's what I thought... I'll need to rewire my brain
Craig
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With the faded buttoniere hanging limply from his lapel, he nodded vacantly at the bar tender, his signal for another double concertini with olives. It seemed that drowning his sorrows was the only way to survive. Yes, he was a concertinaholic. Earlier in life he had tried to mask the severity of his affliction by calling himself, with the hint of a carefree laugh, a mere Anglophile, a leather lung pumper, an Angler, a button botherer.
But time had taken its toll. His health was failing. His right arm was host to a seven-fold complex of symptoms: bellowsitis, the shakes, and other maladies with names too difficult to remember. Then there was the terrible wheezing. Drawing in air and pushing it back out again, over and over. An operation had skived a patch on the biggest puncture wound, but the wind bag was old. Some asked why he carried on, calling his effort merely a noisy way to get back where he had started.
How did it all happen?
He was born an Anglo-Saxon. From the beginning seemingly doomed to be half a man, living up the first half of his legacy, but not the latter, knowing intuitively that he could never find joy with the sax – just too few reeds to bother with. His father, a tight-fisted boxer, was a man of few words. He seemed to do his talking with his black belt in caterpillar wrestling. His mother, was a kind woman. He remembered fondly listening to her concertales by the flickering firelight warming the rough flag stone kitchen floor.
But, his life was rough. He was baptized into the Anglocon church by some old bellower, a round portabellow sort of man. As a young boy, shortly after being given his Italian-made concertinny, he was initiated into the Royal order of Wheatstonians by his revered squeezer-wheezer mentor – a wonderful bellowfellow, who constantly played the lush tones that only a mellowbellowfellow could create. But even this league had been infiltrated by Jeffries-ites, and, God forbid, Anglophobes.
Then his coming of age, and the search to determine the direction of his heart. He had known his bi-flexual yearnings for some time, but was AC/DC the answer? Then as a young man, a starry-eyed activist seeking to “Free Reed” along with every other confined proletariate. Then the bitter war years. He had his scars from this endless battle that waged Anglophobes against Englishophobes – both tenacious, both firmly rooted – creating a caldron of differences that would carry on into the distant future. He felt so many sources of turmoil – so many hands constantly pushing and pulling. The whitening at his temples was a reminder that he was getting old, frail and Stagi. Life droned on.
An elbow in his ribs startled him from his stupor. As he turned, he saw next to him a man dressed in simple working clothes, smiling, with two pints of Guinness serving as dual exclamation points at the bottom of his cascading white hair and beard. A right jolly old elf. “How about a tune?” he asked as he pulled an old fiddle from his case. “It’s getting nigh Christmas, and there is nothing like the jigs from Clare to warm a man’s heart”.
The fiddler slid over one of the pints, a Christmas offering of friendship, mirth and music. A sweet Gm jig then brightened the room, coaxing people to turn, listen, and engage. There was much laughter and sharing. The empty hexagonal case stood in the corner for many many hours that night, and the concertinaholic thought that perhaps his affliction wasn’t all that bad.
Seasons greetings to my concertina friends!
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OK, I've got a question for you... I'm doing button diagram stuff... The piano player in me has always labeled fingers 1=thumb.... 5 = pinky... on both the right and left hand... My mind is sort of hard wired that way... though I've seen people use other conventions...
I want to use a convention in the tutor that people find most intutitive.... What is most intuitive to you?
Thanks,
Craig
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All,
Looking over the listings, we have a pretty creative crew here.... Great collection of words and phrases!
Craig
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Joachim,
As I recall from some of your earlier posts, I believe you might be a little sight challenged... I would be happy to put together a big-print version for you. I don't think I could justify actually publishing a version like that, but I could print it out on my printer and send it to you in a binder (resizing the text but likely not the graphics). I don't think it would take me very long to make that adjustment. Please let me know if that would be helpful and if so, what type size is comfortable.
Still a lot of brain work and PC work to complete the book, so it wouldn't be for a while.
Onward,
Craig
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Howard,
Thanks for the info and support... I'll try to get smarter by digesting the material you suggest!
Onward,
Craig
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To claim our rightful place in the annuls of history, we must first claim our rightful place in the English language.
Since a person who plays the piano is a "pianist" (a lout, a ne'er-do-well, rabble-rouser etc. - I can say that since I'm a piano player), I assume a person who plays the concertina is a concertinist?
Concertinaholic - one who is hopelessly addicted
Englishophobe - one with the common sense to be comfortable only with Anglos
Bellowsitis - an affliction of the wrist or elbow from overplaying
Squeezer-wheezer - a mature concertinist
Anglo-Saxon - Those of Germanic heritage who know how to squeeze (we need to steal this one back)
Others?
Thanks,
Craig
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Joachim,
Good to hear from you again... I'm glad you are interested. Yes, I would be interested in understanding what material you have - no need for me to reinvent something someone else has done.... I have the Frank Edgley, Bertram Levi and Mick Bramich tutors and I think I saw this last week a 20 button book (I didn't spend much time looking at it), but didn't buy it... What is the name of it? I can probably find it at my local music store...
Thanks,
Craig
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Paul,
Thanks for the thought provoking and lucid reply... I've grown accustomed to nothing less from you after reading many of your other postings...
I haven't seen Alan Lochhead's book or John Kirkpatrick's articles but would very much like to... Any leads on how I could acquire? If appropriate to copy the articles, I'll gladly pay you for copying and postage...
Your approach of analyzing things on the push and pull is the exact right starting point since, in my opinion, the changing avaiability of tones (based on bellows direction) is the defining character of our instrument when chording. Your approach gives the ultimate - a full knowledge of the tonal and chordal landscape at our disposal... Some chords are available one direction, some the other, some both, some not at all! It gives you the complete view of every possibility. I trust that your approach would draw in the dedicated musician and one already a bit comfortable with chord theory and the one willing to put some intellectual muster into their concertina effort.
Your 2 points are meaty. Let me attempt to address them.
To your first point: You are absolutely right, there is an infinity of genres, approaches, interpretations, and styles that can be applied to the concertina so that making any definitive statement on what is the "right" way to chord the instrument would mean writing a million tutors, obviously impracticle and unnecessary. But, whenever faced with an infinite problem, we need to focus on the sweet spot that is most important to us: we must simplify the problem, drastically reducing it's scope while still maintaining a wide-enough breadth to bring value to a reasonable number of people. In our case, I think there is a clear method of simplification since most budding concertina chordists are trying to do pretty much the same thing with the same kind of music.
My choice to reduce the problem is: The music? Irish (and some other Anglo-European based folk musics of a similar nature to Irish). The style? providing support to the melody line and embellishments indigenous to Irish music through chordal variety and interesting bass lines. The chordal landscape? Simple (in my crowd if I start playing 6th chords I get the evil eye) with enough pushing the envelope to raise the hackles of a stodgy (Stagi?) dyed-in-the-wool traditionalist. Methods? straight backup and chord-supported melody playing. Look-feel of the Tutor? It must be easy to use, easy to understand, and get people playing tunes with chords quickly. etc.
Respectfully, I don't believe your second point is a problem if we define a common denominator, again trying to simplify the problem to it's sweet spot. I would have to believe that 95%+ of 30-button C/Gs have the exact same buttons on the left side (the primary landscape for chording lest we interfere with the melody line too much). Yes, perhaps variants on the lowest note on the G row - but a minor variation we can deal with. Chording does involve the right hand, and that is where the Jeffries/Wheatstone differences come to play on the accidental row. But realistically, the major practical difference is the C#, so let's build a chordal vocabulary that uses only the push C# with the index finger. Yes C# is on a different button but, as we have seen in other tutors, this difference if addressed up front, is fairly easy for even the beginning concertina player to understand and deal with. Yes, the G/A are in different places and one has a dual D#, but again, these are more fringe issues.
So, I started elsewhere, not necessarily in a better place, but just elsewhere. Instead of starting with the complexity of all possibility that can facilitate approaching the concertina for any style of music, I find it more intuitive to start from a much smaller space: start with the music I know I want to play (Irish and other traditional), understand the rather limited "allowable" chordal scope of this genre, start with a common denominator button layout that is very common, and develop an optimal way to navigate the chords progressions natural to, and a bit on the edge of, that music.
This is one point central to my thinking: it makes far more sense to me to think in terms of chord progressions than chords. Let me try to explain wy. We have a strange and wonderful instrument. One strange thing is that the existence of a chord on a concertina does not necessarily make it usable in a chord progression. We may want to grab a certain voicing of the Emaj7 chord, but when we view the chord in the context of the most useful chord prorgressions that use an Emaj7 chord, the finger gymnastics may be almost impossible to grab at speed. Especially as we start using 3 and 4 note left hand chords that move fingers outside of there "home" position, we are moving to a realm where only a full-time professional concertina player would begin to feel comfortable.
As a result of this peculiarity, we are well-served to do some serious optimization before recommending chords that balances many things simultaneously. The major things we must optimize around are: getting the exact tones we want, getting the exact chord voicing we want, getting the right bellows direction to manage air flow, getting the best finger layout to facilitate movement to other chords often used in chord progressions with the chord, getting the right bellows direction to allow the most common melody notes in the right hand we expect to use, etc. I think our role as tutor writers is to work all that optimization out behind the scenes and present it with sufficient context to the student. I'm guessing people don't want 20 versions of a G chord, but the two that are bread-and-butter must-know that squirt out the back-end of a thoughtful optimization thought process. For those who want to go beyond, there should be ample grounding in the tutor to let them explore on their own.
So, I thank you for your suggestions and encouragement to continue. My intent is to try to hit the sweet spot of the chording need and hopefully provide a new avenue of concertina enjoyment to as many people as I can.
As an aside, I appreciate your efforts to be vocal about preserving the vintage instruments out there and bringing them back to life. There is a great musical heritage out there that can get chopped up pretty severely if we don't watch out.
Onward,
Craig
For Sale: Suttner 31 Key Anglo, G/d Ebony
in Buy & Sell
Posted
Jeffries design Anglo concertina by Juregen Suttner. 31-Button A2 model in G/D. A gorgeous instrument in both appearance and tone - made by the excellent German craftsman. Solid ebony ends, ebony hand grips, 7-fold bellows, steel reeds, red felt key bushings, with sturdy original case. The concertina is fairly stunning to look at – it is all black (the bellows and black ebony) and silver (all buttons, screws and hardware). The black ebony has streaks of chocolate-brown grain that looks pretty cool (especially on RH side, see pic). The rich tones of this lower-pitched instrument are a delight to hear and to my ear has a buttery amber sound. I especially love the “honk” of the low G on this puppy. The bellows are air tight.
This is a great instrument for singing but also plays very well in the keys of G , D and A so also a good instrument to play with other traditional musicians. Also, I find this a nice instrument for chording behind Irish traditional music since its lower register provides a nice foundation to the higher pitches of the fiddles, flutes and pipes. In A=440 tune. In like-new condition, since it is only 3 years old. Instrument # 196.
See the full detail on the A2 at http://www.suttnerconcertinas.com/catalogue.html, including the tuning diagram including a G/G drone for the thumb on the left side. The diagram listed at the bottom of the page is for C/G, so take everything down a 4th for the tuning of this G/D. The only difference in the button layout is on the first two buttons on the accidental row on the right side (G#/G# on button one and C#/A# on button two – push/pull) to match the layout used by Noel Hill (if it is good enough for Noel, it’s good enough for me!). This gives a very handy push C# that matches the pitch of the pull C# on the right side first row, first button. One other change is a pull very low A on the last button, left side, row closest to the hands (think of a C/G layout and this would be a very low D, a step above the lowest pitch on the instrument). That very low A adds some real guts to tunes in A.
I’m selling it to help finance my son’s college education.
Suttner concertinas are in great demand and he currently has a long waiting list (48 month estimate). Avoid the long delay and get into a high-end instrument now. The list price for this instrument is 4,020 Euros (3,630 base price plus 230 ebony ends plus 160 G/D tuning). Today’s conversion rate makes that $5,304. I will sell it for $5,600 plus shipping and insurance. If sold through Concertina Net, I’ll make a donation to Paul for his great work on our collective behalf.
I haven’t seen a Suttner on the market for a while, so contact me soon to get your hands on a great concertina! Also, I’ll leave the “damp-it” humidity tube in the case – be sure you keep your concertinas at the right humidity, it will make them last forever (at least a lot longer than you and I will be around)!
Thanks,
Craig Wagner