Christian Husmann
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Posts posted by Christian Husmann
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Ok, that helps!
I´ve got one question left and than I will stop asking, promised.
You mentioned the button layouts - is there as well a difference in pitch like on Anglos?
Thanks and nice week-end
Christian
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Should I focus on notes first and then the push/pull of the bellows?
Both is important of course, but my vote goes to the bellows.
Bellows movement is ever so important. Knowing where the notes actually are located is something which will come with more practice.
I can always hear my accordion teacher saying that at every time you have to able to control the sound of every single note in what you´re playing and that at every speed - and he was and is right. Bellows are wonderful because they allow the player to put in so much influence.
I´d always prefer putting more attention to the bellows - there are many things you can do with them.
Christian
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We're getting onto tricky ground here, and I think that I would describe what Christian appears to mean by "real" concertinas as being "of traditional English construction", as German makers did sometimes build hexagonal Bandonions and Chemnitzers (just to confuse his definition
) and conversely, Wheatstone's did build some instruments they described as "Bandonions" (actually Chemnitzers!) 
Well, we´re getting on confusing ground actually...
So, what is now the difference between a Bandonion and a Chemnitzer? With my deepest respect to the
English language and the inventors out of GB, since I read the last post, the confusion is now perfect...
And it may be worth mentioning in passing that Uhlig initially announced his new instrument in 1834 as a new kind of accordion ("Accordeon nach neur Art"), and later as a Harmonika, but never (to the best of my knowledge) as a "Konzertina", though he seems to have used "Concertina" to describe the English-style instrument.I never heard or found the word "concertina" on instruments that weren´t actually concertinas.
Reading through ebay.de adds of (no no, I not using any of these words now) the big square things, they often have the word concertina within the description, but only there and (if I remember correctly) since selling concertinas became popular at ebay´s. It´s only a guess but maybe international buyers should and shall be attracted.
Most of the business of the merchants in Markneukirchen was in exporting musical instruments, so I expect that the majority of Schuster's English concertinas went out of the country ...I will have to keep my eyes open even if the chance may be little - I´d love to see and play one of those!
Greetings
Christian
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Christian--
For more info, take a look at the site http://www.concertina.de/ and at the posts by Klaus Guhl on this thread.
BTW, from my point of view a bandoneons are real concertinas, part of what Ted Kloba calls the LSGC family (for Large Square German Concertina). They're directly descended from Uhlig's original bisonoric and diatonic concertina, as is what we now call an Anglo concertina. But perhaps you mean something else by "real"...
Daniel
Thanks again for the information.
Hm, "real" concertinas - in my head the bandoneons wouldn´t be called as well a concertina, even if they do have the same button layout and so on. With real I just ment the concertina in shape, size, range and so on as most of us now have at home.
What attracted my interested was probably the picture of the Schuster box because since I have started looking for wind instruments I never came across a German brand that looked like that one shown on the picture...
Greetings
Christian
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Hello!
I listened yesterday to the examples there - surely impressive!
Bach´s chaconne is incredible actually, I only have one version on an accordion and I can´t wait
to hear the piece in full length.
Thank you!
Christian
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Hello and THANKS to
Marien and Dan!
The two threads will help me getting started! I will see how much information I will be able to get.
And yes, bandonion information will be easy to receive ´cause these machines turn up virtually everywhere - I´ve got one (far beyond being able to play it) but sometimes you get them for almost nothing. I think I payed something around 20 € for mine...
But the "real" concertinas do fascinate me.
Greetings
Christian
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Christian--
Here is the web site for an active German concertina manufacturer. There are at least two or three bandoneon makers in Germany too.
Daniel
Hello Daniel,
yes, bandoneons I heard of some makers and still there are (in this region) a lot of people playing these
instruments. As well in the city where I live there is a man who´s specialised in these instruments due to
tango workshops and therefore musicians playing for them.
Bandoneons can be found quite easily but I mean these concertinas described as: having wooden screws and wooden levers and so on. Acutally the odd red Hohner Anglo can be seen here and there but other instruments ...
As I wrote before maybe I´ll find some time to start some research.
Christian
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Interesting that we have so many Germans on the forum! Maybe I should organize a concertina.net get-together next time I'm visiting my relatives......hrm........
Please do that!
Christian
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Klingenthal is located in Saxony, close to the border of the Czech Republik.The GDR probably stands for German Democratic Republic, so as to distinguish from soviet-controlled East Germany.As far as I know always it has always been a town with a lot of instrument constructing. I think the accordion brand "Weltmeister" is as well from Klingenthal.
And having been there a few times, I can tell you that Klingenthal is so close to the Czech border that the crossing point is in a side street, just off the main road through the town. You couldn't really have got any further east in that region of East Germany!
"Weltmeister" (Worldmaster) is now the main factory in Klingenthal, though there are now many fewer employed than there used to be in what the Germans term the Harmonika industry. (Under the Communist Regime everyone had to have a job!)
Hello Stephen,
yes I do remember that when the borders have opened the country was flodded with Weltmeister accordions. The quality is more or less good as you just said they were built to be sold not regarding quality aspects in the first place.
All these postings make me want to know more about concertinas built in Germany, hopefully I will find some time soon to actually put my ears to the ground.
Greetings
Christian
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Since a concertina performs better when the bellows are less than half open
Sorry, Greg, could you explain that one please?
Yes, Dirge,
Better, sharper minds than mine have said as much in this forum. I believe the reference was in regard to Irish music and Dana Johnson explained that a change in bellows direction was much more effecient in supplying air pressure to a reed and affecting its response if the the bellows were less extended.
If I remember correctly it has to do with the amount of movement necessary to regain air pressure in a bellows change. The more extended the bellows the greater the distance to repressurize going the other way.
Now in the case of your duet, Dirge, the bellows direction is not as critical. But doesn't it feel more "under control" to be playing a compact concertina rather than one towards the limits of its extension?
At Noel Hill school we are encouraged to keep our playing in the closed to half open bellows range.
Feels quicker to me! And some of the deeper thinkers here seem to agree.
I'll try and find that thread later this evening.
Greg
Well,
I may add that with accordions it´s the same - the more *precise* bellows action you want the more you shut them. Best example might be the "bellows shake". The bellows are almost closed when starting.
An example can be seen
.Christian
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Oh, I thought that was a pretty interesting mixture:
English Concertina Accordion 48 Keys - Lachenal w/case
Lovely Antique Wheatstone with Instruction Manual!
concertina and accordion and Lachenal and even a wheatstone concertina...
I watch the ebay auction regularly and haven´t seen that one before.
Christian
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The GDR probably stands for German Democratic Republic, so as to distinguish from soviet-controlled East Germany.
-David
Hello David,
it does stand for that. Klingenthal is located in Saxony, close to the border of the Czech Republik.
As far as I know always it has always been a town with a lot of instrument constructing. I think the accordion brand "Weltmeister" is as well from Klingenthal.
Greetings
Christian
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Hello,
I never heard that there were any problems with leaving the machine outside it´s box.
Friends of mine have more (vintage) instruments than boxes so not all of them are stored in a suitable
box at all.
Thinking of what the instrument "inhales" (smoky air, humidity out of pubs/ crowded rooms, bit of sweat from the hands) it pretty much makes sense to have it outside it´s box rather than putting it away after using it.
Prefered room should be one with a relativly steady temperature, I´d suppose.
Greetings
Christian
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on an English that is, the two screws next to the thumb strap and the finger rest just didn´t want to go back into their holes. Once one put into place the opposite one wouldn´t fit anymore.
On vintage instruments, I've often noticed that some screws are difficult to get back into their original holes. Most of the time, this is because the concertina ends shrink and expand a little bit with drying or getting damp, but the bellows frame holding the nuts for the screws does not change in the same way, if at all. In order to reassemble, I've found that one side or another needs pushing in very slightly. ( a little pressure on the side of the bellows frame ) to reallign the holes. This is best done before the screws are fully tightened, to distribute the shifting of the frame over more of the screws. Once the screws are in place everything is held in the proper orientation although under tension. It's just part of the animal, and once you know how to cope with it, it is no longer an issue.
Hopefully you won't have any need to open it up for a long time, but don't let this sot of experience stop you. If you can do it again or watch while Wim does it, You'll likely pick up all the pointers you'll need. Concertinas can be subject to a number of ills and most of them are easily remedied at home in a few minutes. Be a shame to have to send it out for every little thing.
Dana
Hello Dana,
yes, that was the only way to put it back together, with a bit of pressure on the bellows frame. Maybe that was what put me off as well because I was so scared of doing that thinking I am going to hear a loud crack the next moment and seeing the instruments seriously damaged.
Well, I know that it doesn´t make any sense to send it away for all these "little" things that can turn up occasionally but I really do hope that I won´t have to do it very often.
Also, I am a bit concerned about the little gap between action box and pad board on one side - It surely is the pad board which is causing these problems...
thanks for your answer!
Christian
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Hello Christian,
What you say seems ok to me, but I am not German (maybe you will drive through my home town if you take the car to visit Wim Wakker). So, who is going to translate the entire Concertina.net pages into german language?
A machine I do hope! I am going to take the car as it is not far from where I live but Wim Wakker hasn´t answered yet...
I have watched the notes on authors on that page but there are too many and they didn´t ring a bell at all.
Also I am curious whether the one who made up this german wikepadia page, just has been reading Stephen Chamber´s history page on Louis Lachenal, or somebody who knows more and has other sources of information.Schoenen Tag noch,
Marien
Hm, good question - the instrument shown is the one from "profrat", I am not sure whether it´s his name here or at youtube´s (can´t recall his real name at the moment).
It seems to be a badly translated text as I do remember older versions with even more mistakes, i.e. wrong names and words just looked up in a dictionary instead of actually knowing what they mean in the concertina context.
dir auch!
Christian
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I do not know who wrote this in Wikepedia.
Neiter do I but I am thinking about either re-writing the whole thing or adding something new. More than once I was dissapointed by this article which isn´t properly written.
Greetings
Christian
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Those still do get pretty good prices at ebäh - try it there an don`t forget to give the brand stagi which is the same thing.
Greetings nontox
Well, yes, I am going to wait some time and if there is no interest here I am going to try it there.
Servus
Christian
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- it´s so much more air-tight than before. Seems that the end bolts have been a bit loose. I am goint to wait
a couple of days and than losen and tighten the srews on both sides again, I think.
Not wishing to turn your hair whiter, but don't overtighten the screws. Perhaps one of the makers can give a figure for an apprporiate torque, but my rule of thumb is to do the final tightening with just two fingers, and even then I don't apply full force.
You do seem to have had an unusually hard time. Take Dr Timson's advice: I prescribe a glass of the single malt of your choice.
Chris
Hello,
thanks for the advice! I think (and hope) I have been careful enough not to damage anything. I tightened them slowly and stopped immediately when I reached the point when you just can´t go any further.
I wonder if the posts that the two screws fit into had shifted (one of them, on one end of my Lachenal needs refixing - it's come away from the soundboard)I guess you tried everything already (and don't want to try again!) but some combination of loosely fitting the 6 edge bolts, just a couple of turns, then there would be enough play to try and get the 2 centre screws in.
Chris
No, no, I won´t try it again - I am glad to see it sitting there in just one piece.
So, still I am a bit worried because I assume it´s got to do with the pad board. I seems to have moved a bit and as well I could see a tiny little gap on one side between pad board and action box
I am expecting at the moment an answer from W. Wakker because he´s not far away from where I live - I´d like him to have a look at it.
At the moment I am just enjoying the instrument holding air so much better than before.
Greetings
Christian
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Hello folks,
I just have to share my first experience with opening a vintage concertina - and in a nutshell it was hell.
I did everything the way it is adviced (not getting the srews mixed up, unscrewing the opposite screws and so on) and it opened quickly. After having everything inspected I wanted to put it together again which just didn´t work... on an English that is, the two screws next to the thumb strap and the finger rest just didn´t want to go back into their holes. Once one put into place the opposite one wouldn´t fit anymore.
I think after an hour or so, having thought to start smoking again, leaving it on the table to get a strong drink somewhere and other ideas of what to do with the instrument it finally managed to get it back together...
Here are the two results:
- I will never do this again.
- it´s so much more air-tight than before. Seems that the end bolts have been a bit loose. I am goint to wait
a couple of days and than losen and tighten the srews on both sides again, I think.
I have aged today.
Tired greetings
Christian
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Hi folks,
I´d like to sell a Hohner 48 key English treble concertina as I own a vintage instrument now and don´t play and need it anymore.
I know these instruments are not really popular but as long as you keep this pls in mind for someone that knows someone that ... who´s seeking a beginners instrument - I´d be glad.
The instrument is in a very good condition - I am the first owner and bought it new about 15 years ago directly from the firm, or better from someone that worked for Hohner. Since than I had no difficulties with it, it´s airtight, being played with a second concertina good in tune and mechanically alright.
Please leave me a note here or via PM - any offers are welcome.
Regards
Christian
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and by the way...
I wouldn´t call it "displaying my ignorance"
it´s only a matter of interest, choice and coincidence...
Christian
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Could someone tell me how to tell the different types of English, treble, extended treble, tenor treble, etc apart from each other? I've never needed to think about this before but I've just acquired a Lachenal New Model, 56 keys, (tenor treble?) and not only want to know what I've got but realised that I probably ought to know anyway.
Hello,
I think, I´ll give it a try although I am sure additions are going to follow:
You´re talking of a standard layout when you´ve got 48 keys intirely, 24 on each side. Treble means you are playing in the range comparable to a violin, starting from G and than three octaves up ending on c´´´.
Extended instruments have most of the time 56 buttons (exceptions are rare) - added either further up or down. Extended treble (in most cases) means you´ve got 8 more notes above c´´´ (bit squeeky up there, shall I say). The other possibility is downwards. Tenor treble concertinas go further down compared to the standard range. And baritons have the same button layout as trebles but sound in general one octave lower.
So, what type of instrument is it, you´ve got? And what is it playing like? I´ve got a New Model as well and I think it´s fabulous...
Greetings
Christian
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Madness!
They could've bought a serious concertina for that money ...
Well, I have seen that one as well and I still can´t beleive the price being paid for it. Having watched C. Algars instruments recently you could have bought these two instrument one and instrument two for less money, ready to go and being mid-range concertinas as well. And you could´ve had two.
It´s weird what people are willing to pay and what other people are wanting for theirs boxes...
Christian
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A friend in England sent this to me - please try that and enjoy :-)
Follow these steps:
1. Go to www.google.co.uk
2. Click on 'Maps'.
3. Click on 'Get directions'. (top of screen)
4. Type in from ' Atlanta ' to ' Paris, France '.
5. Click on 'Get directions'.
6. Scroll down the directions to number 22.
Translating Pipe Tune Grace Notes
in Teaching and Learning
Posted
Hello Gary,
I can´t really answer your first question as I don´t know what the printed music looks like
Second one can be answered here.
Leo produced a nice collection of videos on currently nine pages.
Christian