Roger Hare
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Posts posted by Roger Hare
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Wondering if there might be a 1 before the number you quoted in the OP, hidden under the fretwork to the left of the number.
If so, 197287 would be of far later build, and not perhaps of the quality of those made earlier.
A good proportion of instruments of this grade are actually brass reeded, not steel. If you took at the RH palm rest top where the
hand rubs, if nothing is stamped on it, then it is most likely brass reeded, Or it may have 'STEEL REEDS' stamped on it; which
is a very good clue.
Correct on both counts, as the pictures show. Not very clear I'm afraid, but clear enough.
I just hope he now goes ahead and gets the thing restored, otherwise it's just going to sit on a shelf
deteriorating.
Thanks again for those useful suggestions. I'm learning a lot about concertinas on this site!
Roger
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A good proportion of instruments of this grade are actually brass reeded, not steel. If you took at the RH palm rest top where the hand rubs, if nothing is stamped on it, then it is most likely brass reeded, Or it may have 'STEEL REEDS' stamped on it; which is a very good clue.
This thread is helping me acquire some very useful 'general knowledge' about these older instruments. Thank you!
Roger.
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The more you practise a tune, the more nuances you find in it.
I find the more I practice a tune (even a simple one), the more, different, ways I find to play it. This is helping me
become a 'better' player, if only because I have to cross from C-row to G-row to play the tune. That sort of exercise
is making the fingers nimbler, which must be good?
...but people started dancing, and we ramped it up...and the audience was positively joyous. Reminded me that perfected performance isn't always the final word.
I'm choosing to interpret this as meaning 'spontenaity is good'? I saw the Chieftains at a free open-air concert
in Brittany a couple of years ago, and they loosened up a bit as the session progressed - they were clearly having a
blast! So were the 5000 or so people watching - no room for dancing unfortunately - except on-stage where the
support acts did just that...
Whatever, I practice and I try and work out different ways of playing the same thing on my 2-row Anglo. It's certainly
helping. Result - I am now a 'very, very bad' player, as opposed to 'execrable', I hope to continue to improve...
Keep practicing...
Roger
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Just pondering those buttons; the tops appear to be a little more rounded than those usually found on concertinas from the 1880s.
Wondering if there might be a 1 before the number you quoted in the OP, hidden under the fretwork to the left of the number.
If so, 197287 would be of far later build, and not perhaps of the quality of those made earlier.
Of course, I may be quite wrong; it has been known!
That's an interesting point. I will check.
Thank you.
R
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Maybe he'd consider having it restored and learning to play it himself? I'm sure we all (including you) would be happy to advise him.
Yes indeed, that's what I said to him, and I gave him the name of our local restorer. I don't know what he thought about
that - he is a piano and organ player himself.
R
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I was in one of my local shops this morning, and as I happened to know the owner was musical, and
I had 'tina with me, so I showed him the machine.
Imagine my surprise when he produced from below the counter this Lachenal 30-buitton C/G instrument,
Serial No. 97287. I happened to have my tablet with me so took a couple of quick snaps:
It belonged to his mum, who had it from her Uncle Jim. He (the owner) had lent it to a friend who apparently
hadn't played it but bought a cheaper instrument to learn on, so it probably hasn't been played
seriously for years.
I am guessing a date about 1900 (I haven't checked yet). Any opinions?
It looks as if the (slightly battered) box is original.
It has 5-fold bellows, which are leaking.
I managed to get a tune out of it, but the action seemed stiff, and the sound was very weak, probably
due to leaking bellows, lack of use and a reddish velvet baffle behind the fretted ends? One or two notes
were 'intermittent' at best.
I wonder if this is a project worth pursuing? I'm tempted to make him an offer, as long as it's not regarded
as a 'family heirloom'.
Any advice would be more than welcome.
Thanks.
Roger
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I thought I'd give it a week before posting a response...
Thank you all very much for all those helpful replies. I've rarely, if ever, seen
such a positive response to a question I've asked on any internet forum!
Looks like I might seriously be pursuing a Marcus - but someone did mention
Andrew Norman instruments, so now I'm looking at those as well. Life's never
easy is it...
Thanks for the link to the pictures of a disassembled instrument - very useful!
I've also been offered a second-hand instrument, in the key combination I'm
looking for. Thinks, "Now, if I bought the second-hand machine, I could probably
afford a...". No, no that way lies madness...
Once again, thank you all.
Roger
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I currently play a celtic harp, but have wanted to play in Irish sessions for quite some time.
Since the harp seems to be rarely used in sessions...
Don't I remember Derek Bell playing with the Chieftains many years ago (25?)? I certainly
remember thinking that it worked very well - I'm not sure if it was a Celtic Harp, but maybe
you could try and find an Irish session which is looking for a harp? Of course, you must
buy a concertina as well, then you can fulfil two roles within the session!
Roger
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After a lot of reading stuff on these forums, and looking at a lot of hybrid
instruments on the internet, I'm strangely attracted to the Marcus Music
30-button Hybrid Anglo for my second instrument.
Does anyone have any experience with Marcus instruments - they look
good on the website, and the Marcus staff have answered a lot of questions
from me about the instruments.
I am considering a G/D 30-button instrument. Any reason why not (I have
a restored 20-button C/G Lachenal at the moment)?
Thank you.
Roger Hare
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> http://www.amazon.co...y/dp/0982599617
I concur - social history at its very best, written by a man who clearly knows his stuff - light enough
style to satisfy the 'casual' reader, scholarly enough to satisfy the more academically minded. You
don't have to be a concertina player to get a lot from these two books.
Superb!
Run (do not walk!) to your local bookstore and buy a copy now!
Roger
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>...But maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "this sort of calendar"?...
I meant the sort of calendar which is displayed when I press the 'calendar'
button at the top of the concertina.net pages. A calendar based on a 'traditional'
paper wall calendar. I have similar wall calendar based 'reminder/events/scheduling'
programs on my iPad, on my two PC's and on my two tablets. I don't use 'em for
my own scheduling, and the organisation with which I am most closely involved
appears to have just abandoned the calendar based system for time-sorted
lists of their different types of 'event'. My observations, such as they were, were
based on this fact.
It occurs to me that on cnet, a 'list' could be split into geographically separated
sub-lists. A squeezer down here in the West Country is unlikely to be able to
often go to events in (say) North America or Australia, so localised sub-lists for
Europe, N. America, Australasia, etc. might be useful? Don't know - I am
concentrating on whether the boat needs a new bowsprit at the moment!
>...What, aside from the display format, do you find "clunky" about "this sort of
>calendar"..
If I have understood correctly, your subsequent post regarding the inability to
easily move beyond the end of 2014 is one item. Also, the fact that unless it is
a very busy calendar, much of the available space is empty, and therefore 'wasted'.
>...The resources ...of those who own and maintain this web site...are limited...
All the more reason to go for a cheap(er), quick(er), simple(er) alternative, whatever
that might be? As I say earlier, the Pilgrim BM45 organisation (I am a director of
this similarly strapped-for-cash, resource-limited, not-for-profit company) seem
to have abandoned their website calendar for a list (or lists), and I'm pretty sure
this was done on the grounds of ease of both use and maintainability.
Roger
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>So if events aren't presented in your preferred format, you'd rather not know about them? To me that seems an odd way to make decisions
>about what's worth doing. But rather than argue lifestyle, please let me make some observations regarding calendar/event systems in
>general... and in theory:
That's not what I said, and didn't really consider that what I said might be interpreted in that way. My comments were intended
to be mildly, but constructively critical.
I specifically said "this sort of calendar" which I have never found to be anything other than 'clunky'. I 'suggested' a simple
time-sorted list as an alternative, which, given the number of items currently in the calendar would be perfectly OK, probably
extending to not much more than a single screen/page? If there are dozens of entries, clearly a different solution is called
for - there are (presumably) alternatives out there?
Roger
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I've voted, but would like to slightly expand my opinions as expressed in the vote:
A 'calendar' is a fine idea but personally, I wonder if a simple, single, time-sorted list isn't
preferable?
These calendar-based 'calendars' are a little clunky to my mind - I have to click through every
single month to get an idea of what is happening. Very tedious. [i am involved with an outfit that
also uses this sort of calendar and am trying hard to get them to change the approach as well.]
It's dead simple - unless it's very important to me, I just don't bother to look at this sort of
calendar when I encounter one.
FWIW, the software used to set up the poll and record and report the voting is the simplest and
easiest to use that I've yet encountered.
Roger.
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@Roger: I'm going to guess that the higher desirability, and hence prices, of the Anglos, is due to the popularity of specifically Irish music. It certainly does seem that's why many turn their gaze to the concertina in the first place, with a particular wish to focus on that style. For those of us who don't, the happy effect is we might save a few £ or $.
Interesting. My take on this was that English instruments were more expensive than Anglos when the
instruments were actually produced (I get the impression that English were 'middle-class', Anglos were
'working-class').
Simple extrapolation down the years would tend to make one think that the price differential would be
maintained. Apparently not - and a perfecty sensible reason why not. Thank you.
Personally I don't intend to do Irish. I shall be concentrating on English music with some nautical stuff and
a few Breton 'fest-noz' tunes thrown in when I can track ,em down.
Roger
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Thank you for those encouraging replies!
To get advice from JK and GC is particularly helpful! I already hve the 'Civil War Concertina'
book, incidentally, and have been listening to JK's Youtube videos.
I will try and avoidd going down any restrictive roads by continuing to play both versions of a
tune when I work out an 'easier' version!
Once again, thank you all.
Roger
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From a novice (3 month) 20-button Anglo player.
I have just learned the tune 'Billy Boy'. Easy to pick out on the C-row of my instrument once
I realised there were two brief excursions to the G-row for an F-sharp. While fiddling with this
I realised that the sequence of notes surrounding the F-sharps could be played more fluidly
if I played that whole sequence on the G-row. Some notes which previously were pushed were
now pulled (and vice versa). By doing this, I avoided having to play these notes at the high-end
of the C-row, so I only had to use three fingers. Also, to play these notes on the G-row, I needed
to make a brief excursion to the left hand side of the instrument.
Great! My first cross-row, two handed tune!
However, questions arise:
1) Is it a good idea to avoid the high end buttons? One must exercise the pinkie, after all.
2) Is this shifting between rows (sometimes unecessarily), a valid 'technique'?
3) Will pulling notes which previously were pushed (and vice versa) make it easier to add
chords to my tunes?
I have been experimenting, and find I can already do this with two other (accidental-free)
tunes - 'Lilliburlero' and 'The Girl I left Behind Me'. I'm sure I will be able to do this with all
sorts of other stuff. Is it a good idea though?Thank you in advance.
Roger
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>English is a great all around system and an added benefit is
>that good vintage instruments are more affordable than old anglos.Now why is that, I wonder?
Roger
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>Can anybody point me in the direction of a chart/button layout for 30 or more buttons in Ab/Eb?
I ain't checked 'em all, but if you enter :
'anglo concertina keyboard layout' or:
'salvation army concertina keyboard layout'
into Google, and then look at the images, you may find what you want - there are dozens of layout
images there.
Good luck!
Roger
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>You've listed Marcus as a model made by McNeela, but actually Marcus is a maker in his own right:
Thank you very much!!! I was a little unsure about that one when I listed it - it wasn't clear (to me at
least) whether this was a model of Mcneela's or a one-off sale. By the time you read this, I hope to
have updated the survey in my post - I think it's OK now - as far as it goes. I'll try and fill in the blanks
as I get more information.
FWIW, that Marcus standard model looks pretty interesting.
Are you a concertina maker yourself?
Thank you once more.
Roger
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>I don't assume you'll find concertina bellows without some card board
Absolutement, mon general - I decided to keep the information down to what was said on the
various websites - in order to keep it as simple as possible. Anyone using this information (me,
for example!) will need to do a bit more research before parting with their hard-earned cash.
Roger
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Before this thread goes 'stale' I thought it might be useful to post the details of all the instruments
of this type (30-button, hybrid, mid-upper price range) which I have surveyed in the last week or
so. Not complete, but better than what I had when I started. I hope someone finds it useful. Having
created the list, I'll try and keep it up-to-date...
Roger
Edited to get the PDF file down to 1 page, I hope...
Edited to correct erroneous information...
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You could also look at 'Absolute Beginner's Concertina' by Mick Bramich. I've found it quite
useful, though I don't know what the experts in this forum might think of it.
He has a second book (title escapes me) which is geared towards 30-button instruments.
Roger
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Thank you for those useful suggestions - I hadn't thought about taking a cheap flight - bears
thinking about. Also for the information about other suppliers.
Thanks for the info about the Swallow - it is midway price wise between the cheap end and
the (relatively) expensive end of the range - interesting
The original poster may find the site:
http://www.theirishconcertinacompany.com/
interesting? I stumbled across it quite by accident. The instruments seem to be Jefferies layout
only, and I'm not yet enough of a player to know how significant (or otherwise) this might be.
Roger Hare
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I've been following this thread with some interest as I'm a novice player, but one who is already
looking to move from a 20-button Anglo to a 30-button Anglo - possibly a hybrid.
I had looked at the cheaper end of the market - Wren (McNeela) and Rochelle (Concertina Connection)as possible entry level 30-button instruments, but this thread has made me realise that there is a third
option (the second being an antique 30-button 'conventional' instrument). That third option is a new hybrid
instrument from the mid-upper end of the hybrid range - which I didn't realise existed.
I have looked online at the Morse Ceili (Button Box), the Clover Anglo (Concertina Connection), theSwallow (McNeela) and Marcus (McNeela), the Edgley range, but can't find any up to date information
about the Herrington range.
Question - is it 'safe' to deal across the Atlantic? Nearly all the above instruments come from North
America - I am in the UK and boggled a bit when I saw the mark-up charged by the UK agent for theMorse Ceili. Seems a bit steep to me, so I am wondering if dealing privately across the Atlantic is
'sensible' - then I can use that £500 mark-up to buy a better concertina!
In the previous posts in this thread, I don't think opinions have been expressedn about the Swallow and
Marcus so far. Does anyone have experience with/of these instruments?
Thank you.
Roger Hare
Well, What A Surprise! Any Opinions On This Instrument?
in General Concertina Discussion
Posted
That's extremely helpful. Thank you very much - I will pass that information on to David.
I had 'guessed' by looking at the illustrations in the Lachenal catalogues on the Digital
Concertina Archive, that the price was £4-7-0...
Roger