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4to5to6

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Posts posted by 4to5to6

    Wheatstone reed scaling - piccolo to treble

    in Instrument Construction & Repair

    Posted · Edited by 4to5to6

    The question about Wheatstone reed scaling has come up again.  I understand Wheatstone only used 3 reed scales over the years: Long, Best and Regular???

     

    I’m converting a 5-1/2” 48 key piccolo English Aeola concertina into a treble, building new reed pans.

     

    This has been done before.  I have detailed photos of a factory made 5-1/2” treble and also 5-1/2” piccolo that was later sent back to Wheatstone and converted into a treble by them.  Thank you Robert and Bob for your generous help.  

     

    Is it true that Wheatstone only had three distinct reed scales?

     

    Info or charts on Wheatstone reed frame sizes / tongue sizes, etc. for each pitch would be most welcome to help me figure out what they used and then source some reeds.

    .

    Is there a “best wood” with concertinas?

    in Instrument Construction & Repair

    Posted · Edited by 4to5to6

    I'm a big fan of Amboyna Buryl with ebony trim, dark brown bellows and gold hardware... just my preference.  As Alex said, all wood ends should be laminated for structural stability.  The Wheatstone Aeola came in ebony / ebonized, chrome, nickel plated nickel-silver, gold plated brass, amboyna, natural / plastic tortoiseshell and white eirinod.  Rosewood is nice too.  Am I missing any?

    EC tuning mystery solved....I think

    in Instrument Construction & Repair

    Posted

    17 hours ago, alex_holden said:

    I have just added a column to my table with the 1/4 comma meantone offsets. You can see from this that 1/4 comma deviates further from ET than 1/5 comma does. If you compare it to the values in the 1/4 comma table that comes included with Tonal Energy, you can figure out which accidentals they picked, which might not be the ideal ones for your chosen root note and the keys you want to play in.

     

    meantone_fifth_and_quarter_comma.png

     

    Your mileage may vary; I am not a mathematician; intervals in the rear view mirror may appear narrower than they are. Incidentally the Wikipedia page describing quarter comma meantone is one of the most confusing things I have read for quite a while.

     

    Thanks Alex.  Awesome info.  I was trying to figure this out a while back.  Very good.

    • Thanks 1

    EC tuning mystery solved....I think

    in Instrument Construction & Repair

    Posted

    Alex,  Could you share your two temperament tables for a 14 note per octave English concertina please.  Are they custom TE tuner tables?  I would highly value your thoughts on how you tune the EC enharmonics.  8 good keys with quarter comma mean tone?

     

    The resonance of the chamber is designed to be different than the frequency of the reed so unwanted harsh harmonics are cancelled and responsiveness is increased.  This interaction causes the reed to sound at a slightly different frequency installed versus when on the tuning table.  The chamber volumes are slightly different on push and pull so the tuning of push and pull reeds needs to be slightly different and can’t be mixed up.

     

    I recently discovered Total Energy tuner in my struggle to tune some bass reeds.  It works!  Therefore I highly recommend it.  I am actually completely hooked on it now.  I love the temperament feature and the analyzer works just as good as Celemony Melodine for my uses.

    • Like 1

    Wanted 67 button Maccann Duet

    in Buy & Sell

    Posted

    Hi Sparrow, 

     

    Would you consider a 72 button McCann?  1919 Wheatstone Aeola, F2 to C7.  A440.  I only play English but just had to purchased it because it was local and on the same ledger page as my Tenor Treble.

     

    PM me if interested.

    Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.

    in Instrument Construction & Repair

    Posted · Edited by 4to5to6

    Columbia leather sent me their price list.

     

    I am going to put an order together to make valves from the smallest piccolo size to large contrabass size and also will order leather for pads.  I have never ordered leather for these two items before and could use some advice to save the costly mistakes I’ve so often made in the past.

     

    I need help in determining what to order.  They do have CPL (Columbua Pneumatic Leather) in sizes from XXX thin .005 - .007 to Extra Heavy .022 - .026 in 6” x 12” strips.  Wheatstone has 6 different valve sizes I was told.  Not sure what thickness range.

     

    Is CPL the ideal leather for pads as well as valves?

     

    IMG_2721.thumb.jpeg.77b6eacaf47097eb88400ea5cb1e8791.jpeg

    Key-layout for a tenor-treble English Concertina

    in Instrument Construction & Repair

    Posted · Edited by 4to5to6

    The most important details in the description are bass / baritone / treble / piccolo so you know where the middle C button is... piccolo plays an octave higher, baritone an octave lower and G Bass, two octaves lower (and C1 contrabass 3 octaves lower if it exists) as related to the treble all with 48 buttons.

     

    The second most important thing is the location of the thumb straps in connection with the C button on the LH side but this is never described.

     

    There is always going to be a compromise with the terminology (such as calling a “tenor” a “tenor treble” and back and forth) because some follow the modern descriptions and some refer to the Ledgers  / price lists descriptions.

     

    For a bit of trivia… My model 15 really messes people up.  I am careful to call it a baritone treble (not a treble baritone) as the middle C is in the traditional treble position as a treble on the LH side.  This baritone ranged Aeola goes down a 4th lower than a tenor treble, 4 octaves from G to G with the same 56 buttons.  However, I would not describe it as taking a row off the top and adding one on the bottom as the layout is completely different.  I’ll attach a couple of photos to show my point.

     

    The fingering pattern looks to be completely opposite but you don’t notice this while playing it and find it similar to a TT with extra low notes.  I find having the middle C still on the LH side much more intuitive than the reversed baritone.  

     

    Note the layout with reference to the pinky slides / thumb straps.  It took me a while to wrap my head around this one.

     

    56 button, Model 19, C to C, Tenor Treble:

    IMG_2500.thumb.jpeg.0305c3f893067c6cf667608f349d2a12.jpeg

     

    56 button, Model 14, G to G, Baritone Treble:

    IMG_2496.thumb.jpeg.06872fcea51ab12ab9fa532143695b97.jpeg

    .

    Electroplating wooden core buttons

    in Instrument Construction & Repair

    Posted

    I would like to preserve the wood in it’s original condition as much as possible.

    I could wrap and twist a piece of copper wire around the base of the cap for the electrical connection.

    I think the dual wall adhesive lined shrink tube is the best idea so far.  I’ve had to peel this off of electrical connections many times and it sticks but always comes off clean.  I’ve never used it on wood but it should be fine.

     

    Thanks for all the advice.

    Electroplating wooden core buttons

    in Instrument Construction & Repair

    Posted · Edited by 4to5to6

    A 48 button set of wooden core gold plated Aeola buttons needs to be freshened up.

     

    The plan is to electro clean, rinse, activate, rinse, electroplate a nickel diffusion barrier all by full immersion in heated baths and then brush plate on about 5 microns of cobalt hardened bright 24K gold with a wand.

     

    The wooden cores are the problem. The metal caps are crimped on hard so can’t be removed.  The wood needs to be sealed somehow so I can do the rinses properly to avoid cross contamination of the baths.

     

    Any ideas?

     

    The ends, pinky slides, thumb strap screws and loops were gold plated today and originally I was going to leave it at this but decided the end bolts and buttons, little and long screw ends.  This amazing one of a kind piccolo deserves the love 😍 

     

    IMG_2171.thumb.jpeg.de9dc1d404155e84e6991197cc91d96f.jpeg

    IMG_2372.thumb.jpeg.814cb7eea93d3c7ef2ba7c64ed0c4d99.jpeg

    IMG_2373.thumb.jpeg.1795fe98f91164f657cea9fda60dfedb.jpeg

    Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.

    in Instrument Construction & Repair

    Posted · Edited by 4to5to6

    Thanks Chris.  I sent Darlene an email a few days ago but never pursued it.  I’ve been a bit distracted.  I just received an amazing little gold ended piccolo EC and can’t set it down even though unrestored and in lower A435 French pitch.  I’ve been playing Bach’s Little fugue in G minor on it or at least learning it.  Simply amazing instrument!  So much fun.  I’ll pursue the pneumatic leather early next week and let everyone know.  Hopefully they will sell me some smaller quantities so I can try making valves in assorted thicknesses to sort out the lower notes of my tenor treble.

     

    I was just tweaking my double action Aeola G Bass last night and noticed some valves have one and sometimes two layers of a reinforcement mylar laminated on top of the leather to reinforce them.  Brilliant idea.  Lower notes sound full rounded, rich and powerful, no pops or blurps at all.  I’ll attach a photo hopefully tomorrow.  I may try this out on my TT and see if it helps.

     

    Thanks again for everyone’s help.  

    .

    1/4-comma meantone calculation for Anglos

    in General Concertina Discussion

    Posted · Edited by 4to5to6

    I emailed TonalEnergy… I will let you know what they say.

     

    Here’s an Interesting YouTube video I just found while cruising their website... good demonstration of Just vs. ET.

     

     

    Shameless promotion for their app of course (nice grin) but good demo.  

     

    I have absolutely no connection with these guys; I just found out about them about a week ago and have been raving about their ap ever since. Just found out they also have an Apple/Windows version as well.

    .

    1/4-comma meantone calculation for Anglos

    in General Concertina Discussion

    Posted · Edited by 4to5to6

    43 minutes ago, Little John said:

     

    The chart shown doesn't indicate the note names. If this is based an a reference of A, as is stated, then:

     

    2 (m2, -24 cents) is A#. A better choice might be Bb (+17.1 cents)

    7 (T, -20.5 cents) is D#. Probably a good choice but if you prefer Eb it would be +20.5 cents.

    9 (m6, -27.4 cents) is E#. A better choice would be F (+13.7 cents)

     

    There's a danger in trusting the computer to do what you want!

     

    The reference note can be changed but I usually leave A4 at 440Hz as a reference to tune to other instruments.

     

    Interesting… I will email them and see what they say.  It is easy to modify the offset table or even create a new User temperament.

     

    I learned to count beats when I tuned pianos many years ago but now just use a “computer” tuner.  Sad but true. 😭 

     

    I will try your suggestions and listen to them.  The ap has a function to do this.  What would you suggest for the enharmonics Eb/D# and Ab/G# in cents?

     

    I have a piccolo English coming today or tomorrow that’s in original C517.3 / A435 Continental pitch that needs to be raised slightly and may just do it in 1/4 comma meantone for fun.

     

    Thanks.

    .

     

    I

    1/4-comma meantone calculation for Anglos

    in General Concertina Discussion

    Posted

    On 3/1/2023 at 3:46 AM, alex_holden said:

     

    The tuning app I use (Tonal Energy) has a setting to automatically adjust the pitch so that A4 still ends up at 440Hz (or whatever frequency you give it) even if the root note of the scale isn't A.

     

    I also use the Total Energy tuning app.  It was the only app that was successfully able to pick up the notes of my G bass.  It has become my go to app for all instruments.  And, as Alex said, you pick A4=440 Hz as your reference note and the offsets are calculated from there.  Here are the offsets for 1/4 comma mean tone:

     

    IMG_1669.thumb.jpeg.e8c44d9ca8b66b7f6260104091ed6e56.jpeg

    Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.

    in Instrument Construction & Repair

    Posted

    Chris, I’ve sent Columbia an email requesting small quantities in various thicknesses.

     

    Jake, what is the most common type and thicknesses used for valves?  I have a piccolo, TT, model 14 and G bass.  I am going to hopefully put an order together for Columbia Organ leathers.  I’ve never purchased from them before. What is the best leather to use for pads?  I should also get some pad leather as well.

     

    Thanks for all the help.

    .

    Blurpy, raspy sounding low note.

    in Instrument Construction & Repair

    Posted

    My large Gbass Aeola has the plastic reinforcing strips supporting the larger valves.  I think David Robertson did the work.  I have seen small wire springs run down the center of the valve supporting the tip.

     

    I always thought the plastic or wire was there to keep the valve closed and to prevent the large valve from curling up.  I never considered a flutter problem while the valve is open.  I wonder if this is what is happening???  

     

    Interesting.

    .

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