Howard Mitchell
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Posts posted by Howard Mitchell
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Wayland,
I would say that you got a good deal for $200 if, as you say, the bellows and reeds are in playable condition.
It looks like a Lachenal with the "steel reeds" logo beeing a good pointer. But the number you found inside will be a manufacturing batch number not the instrument's serial number. The date is certainly later than the 1850's.
Can you post any pictures of the innards?
Howard Mitchell
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[it all depends on how slow we are talking. I agree thought that there is little reason (other than showing off) to play the tunes at 120 or more BPM (though I do think some step dancing is done at that speed). 80-90 is a bit above some slow sessions but I find it a nice tempo for the music.
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Bill
I know we're talking about Irish tunes here and in sessions but the standard speed asked of us for formal Scottish dance is 120 (76 for strathspeys) although at a recent RSCDS event in London the MC asked for it a little steadier at 116.
Howard Mitchell
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Having owned one of these aluminum framed Wheatstones, it occurs to me that there is also a fundamental difference between aluminum reed-frame construction methods and the brass dovetailed reed frames. The aluminum frames are (as far as I can tell) always planted on the surface of the reed pan, held with wax, screws, or spring clips as is the case with Wheatstone. This must present a whole different world of sound transmission as compared to the traditional brass shoes which are literally 'imbedded' in the reedpan via dovetail slots. Has anyone encountered dovetailed aluminum reed frames?........Forrest
Yes. I had a Crabb 30-key Anglo number 18224 with dovetailed aluminium frames. My current Wheatstone 40-key Anglo number 57xxx is the same. The Wheatstone Chemnitzer that I'm minding at the moment is the same although a few of the lower reeds are in rectangular frames screwed to the pan.
Howard Mitchell
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A set of bellows fitted complete to your frames for less than £150,
OR - and this is the good bit!!!!
FOR LESS THAN £100
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Dave E
Dave,
Thanks for this good news. Do you know if the bellows are available in custom sizes? e.g. for a baritone.
Regards
Howard Mitchell
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Howard, you were in Indianapolis last year, and you didn't tell us? Tsk, tsk.
Ken (still off topic)
Just a flying visit, Ken (Pun intended). I've finished in Indi now and moved on from aerospace to construction industries. Goodness knows where I'll end up next.
Howard
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By the way, I once had the pleasure of being bumped up to first class, because coach was oversold but there were some unsold seats in first class. The seat was wonderfully comfortable and I could have all the alcohol I wanted. What a waste! I had gone straight to the airport from a session (free beer for the musicians), and I had already had all I wanted.
At the risk of getting seriously off-topic. Last year I had the pleasure of being bumped up to first from business on three separate occasions with American Airlines. I was getting used to it so on my last trip to Indianapolis when I was given seat 1A I thought I was in for the champagne treatment. But... American (and now Continental and Canadian) have removed the first class cabin. Just coach and business. What is the world coming to.
The best "comfort" in business on AA is Bose noise-cancelling headphones. The jets disappear and the sound quality is good. All we need is some concertina pieces on the in-flight entertainment (struggling deperately to get back on topic).
Howard Mitchell
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I once bought tickets online and choose not to select a seat when I purchased the ticket. ... This turned out to be a big problem for me, as I had a ticket, but not a confirmed seat, and the flight was over sold.
It doesn't matter if you've got a confirmed seat or not. If the flight is overbooked, someone will get bounced. It happens more often on US internal flights, not often in Europe and rarely on intercontinental. In 30 years of flying I've been bounced with no option only once on an internal US flight (They gave me $100 dollars compensation on a flight which cost $100 and I went 1 hour later). I've been offered increasing compensation maybe 5 times until someone took the offer.
Howard Mitchell
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Wendy,
I fly a lot and often at short notice so e-tickets are the norm for me and I can't remember the last time I had a pre-reserved seat.
On a recent trip from the UK to Charlotte NC via Newark I didn't have a seat reservation until I checked in (even up front). This was with Continental. I was in Madrid in March and again the seat reservation was made on check-in with Iberia. The Iberia flights are often a code share with British Airways. I'm going Easyjet to Berlin in a couple of weeks and I expect open seating on a budget airline.
Three times recently I've been asked if I would like to check in at an ATM-style machine. Just put in some sort of ID, frequent fliers card or credit card and you get to choose your own seat. It even found me using an American Airlines frequent flier card when on Continental!
I'm sure she'll have a great time in Madrid. Lot's of buskers down in Plaza Major and near the Royal palace.
Howard Mitchell
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So you didn't try to closely match the reed's profile to that of the reeds nearby in pitch? Would you be able to look at those reeds now and tell us how similar or different the thickness profiles on the melodeon reeds are, compared to the nearby originals?
Leave it with me Jim. I'll look when I can. I have number of other irons in the fire and the dreaded "real work" keeps getting in the way. (I'm sitting listening to terrible "on hold" music at the moment waiting for an international teleconference to start)
Howard Mitchell
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... putting a weight on the end of the reed makes the fundamental louder in proportion to the upper harmonics and results in a less "reedy" tone.
Howard, is that change simply in comparison to the otherwise-unaltered unweighted reed (which would have been at a higher pitch), or in comparison to an otherwise-identical reed, unweighted, but thinned toward its base to give it the same pitch that the weighting produced?
Jim,
It was a while ago, I'm thinking back to the process I went through.
The concertina had a couple of broken reeds, just the frame and a stub of reed left under the clamp. I had a supply of old melodeon reeds and used them as raw material.
I selected a reed with about the same thickness as the stub and shaped it to fit without changing the profile. It was too high in pitch so I thinned the reed near the root. It sounded "reedier" than other notes around it, both weighted and unweighted.
I started again with the same thickness reed and added weight at the end instead of thinning. It was nearer the sound of reeds around it.
Howard Mitchell
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Fourthly: As I understand it, if one adds weight to the end the tongue of a short reed one can lower the pitch to that of a larger, un-weighted reed. The profile is different. This will clearly change the timbre. In what way?
Tony,
I can't fully answer your question from an anaytical point of view.
If you look at work by Cottingham on free reed acoustics, he observes that a uniform reed vibrates in a near sinusoidal way along its length but that this produces a pressure waveform which contains many harmonics as a result of the air flow being "chopped" by the reed entering and exiting the frame. There is empirical data showing this but no published equation.
I can imagine that changing the profile of the reed (including the extreme case of weighting the tip) will change the bending shape of the reed (Cottingham calls this the reed profile just to confuse us) and may also change the vibration mode of the reed. I can see how one might model the vibration of the reed using Fletcher's equations and modify it for a specific reed profile using Rayleigh's equations. This however doesn't then take the final step of transforming the reed displacement into the pressure waveform which would give us the harmonic frequencies and change in timbre.
To paraphrase what you say, the problem is computable but we haven't yet written down the algorithm nor used it for specific instances.
From a point of view of experience - I've revived a baritone anglo which has a number of weighted reeds and I had to re-manufacture a couple of them - putting a weight on the end of the reed makes the fundamental louder in proportion to the upper harmonics and results in a less "reedy" tone.
Howard Mitchell
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-- Even though you would have to record your own samples, you would presumably only need to do that once, and then you wouldn't have to carry around an amboyna Edeophone, a pinhole Æola, a metal-ended New Model, a brass-reeded baritone, a contrabass, and a Stagi miniature. Or, if you're an anglo player, C/G, G/D, Bb/F, and baritone in both metal- and wooden-ended models, both Jeffries- and Wheatstone-reeded. --
An interesting idea. The main problem would (probably) be that once all notes from an instrument are sampled, they will need to be adjusted in amplitude, so they sound even (don't have large jumps from note to note) and correct change in amplitude from low to high end, resembling the sampled instrument.
What about the pressure (pull/push)? I happen to play, fairly violently, a miniature Stagi. Violently, since it is my way of getting an expression out it. What I am aiming at, is that timbre will changed with the pressure, so which should be chosen when sampled?
Don't get me wrong here - I am not trying to kill a good idea at birth - it is a fascinating idea. And since I have one of the instruments with fewest buttons (18), I should volunteer to be the first!
But someone in this forum has done an instrument voice like that, I am sure. Can't remember who, but I have the voice somewhere, I downloaded it, and tried and it worked fine with the virtual synth it Apple's QuickTime. It could be valuable to get some input from there, from someone who has done it before.
Technically, I see (noooo, problems again!) - no, challenges, I mean: there are two important aspect of a sound: the attack part, and the steady-state part. I have no idea how it is done for samples to be used as instruments, except that the steady-state part need to be looped without glitches, so the whole thing goes like this: ATTACK-LOOP-LOOP-LOOP-LOOP - hmm, do we need a decay part as well?
Congratulations, Brian - I am interested! And "Thai Bath House" does sound intriguing, Jim!
Henrik
There are a number of different concepts being discussed here.
MIDI (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) is strictly the physical and logical standard for transferring real-time music data from one place to another. It contains such things as Note Events (note on, note off) and Articulation (Bend, Volume etc). A MIDI signal doesn't say "play Bb softly like a piano", it says "use voice 5, start note number 34 with velocity 60, end note number 34". It's up to the sound producing device to interpret that.
MIDI signals from a controller (like a midi concertina) trigger a device to produce sound. This can be any sound but is often the General MIDI sound set which is what many people understand as MIDI sounds. It can however be one of many "Sound Banks" in the device.
A simple sampler will enable you to capture a single note from a instrument and put it in a sound bank then allow a midi signal to trigger the sound at any pitch and amplitude envelope. Attack, Deacay, Sustain, Release are the four stages usually modelled.
A more sophisticated sampler allows you to take a range of samples from an instrument, let's say the note C in 4 different octaves, each played softly, medium and loud. It would then allow you play the instrument using a midi signal and would select the nearest appropriate pitch and sound depending on the note number and the articulation data. This is how high end sampled instuments work without getting a "chipmunk" effect as the pitch changes.
There is an open standard for storing the mass of data which defines an instrument in this way. It can be simple or massively complex, using a different sample for each note and each level of articulation. The file is called a soundfont by analogy to a printed font.
There are programmes like Vienna Soundfont Editor for producing soundfonts and managing banks of soundfonts.
It would not be a trivial matter to produce a library of concertina soundfonts but it is doable.
If you want chapter and verse on soundfonts and understand terms like sub-chunk, hydra and big-endian go to http://www.soundfont.com/documents/sfspec21.pdf
Howard Mitchell
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Interesting discussion.
Here's a few other comment to throw in.
I've played for English dancing for many years. Now this means traditional dances like the Morpeth Rant, Nottingham Swing etc. with tunes that would not be out of place at a folk session.
But it also means playing for "period" country dances from about 1600 to 1800 (This is known as ECD or even MECD - modern english country dance - in the US to distinguish it from period re-enactment.)
Over the last few years some callers of ECD have added to the repertoire and sometimes have used early and classical tunes. So we often get to play Susato, Arbeau, Handel, Mozart and even recently a piece of Gilbert and Sullivan.
We've taken two approaches to this - one in which we arrange on the fly, much as we might do with traditional tunes. The other where we have fixed arrangements, much more in the classical mode. Last year we even put together a baroque quartet for a specific dance.
I have to say that the audience seem to enjoy the "arrange on the fly" model. But then they're dancers not a seated audience and they perhaps enjoy the changing dynamics.
Another point - last week I saw a giant pile of hand written music manuscripts produced in the first half of the 20th century. All of them concertina arrangements, either for duet or english concertina. The content was mostly light classical with an occasional polka or waltz. This gives an interesting insight into the repertoire of concertina players in this period.
Howard Mitchell
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If thats the one Neil Wayne bought, then what surprised me was the size of it. He brought it to the last Royal concertina session. Lovely old instrument though.
Pete
Pete,
Yes, that's the one. It is enormous. What has surprised me most is the good state of the left hand - bar a couple of missing wooden blocks and broken buttons - but the right hand has been messed about a bit with replacement reeds, ad hoc leather seals on pads and gaskets etc.
I must get up to the Royal session.
Howard Mitchell
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This is a link to a new BBC2 Ident which appeared on Mayday http://thetvroom.com/video8/WE-05-BBC2-ID-MORRIS.rm (850kB)
A concertina player with Morris dancers - shame the sound is actually a melodeon.
Howard Mitchell
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Remember the Wheatstone bandoneon that was sold on Ebay a while ago?
I manged to get a look inside today. I've put some photos and comments on:
http://www.hgmitchell.plus.com/wb/wb.htm
Howard Mitchell
On reflection I should really have called this the Wheastone Chemnitzer as the layout is that of a 54 button/102 tone Chemnitzer rather than a bandoneon.
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Do we have and members of concertina.net in Berlin?
The Manchester Morris Men are visting Berlin on the 27th and 28th of May. They will be accompanied by 3 concertina players (myself included) amongst their usual contingent of musicians.
The programme is:
Friday 27th May:
12:45 Lunch at Brauerei Lemke.
14:15 Begin afternoon dance programme at Hackescher Markt
15:15 Dance at Nikolai Viertel (Spreeufer).
16:15 Dance at Pariser Platz (Brandenburg Gate).
17:15 Dance at Potsdamer Platz
Saturday 28 May:
11:00 Dance at Wilmersdorfer Str. (Kant Str.)
11:45 Dance at Wilmersdorfer Str. (Schiller Str.).
12:30 Dance at Wittemberg Platz
15:00 Kurfürsten Damm (Joachimstaler Str.).
16:00 Breitscheid Platz
More about the Manchester Morris Men at:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/k.ashman52/mmm/index.html
Morris Dancing (Moriskentänze) ist eine sehr alte Tanzform, die seit mindestens 600 Jahre in England getanzt wird. Im Zeitalter Shakespeares wurde sie bereits als eine alte Sitte angesehen. In der Tat, erwähnt Shakespeare diese Tanzform in einige seiner Stücke.
Im Laufe der Jahre haben die Tänze sich entwickelt und verändert. Heutzutage existieren in England sechs deutliche Moriskentanztraditionen. Die Tanzgruppe, Manchester Morris Men (MMM), führt Tänze zweier dieser Traditionen auf: Cotswold Morris aus dem Mittelteil Englands, die bekannteste und die meist aufgeführte der Traditionen; und Processional Morris aus dem Nordwesten des Landes. Für die Letztere tragen die Tänzer traditionelle Holzschuhe und bunt verzierte Hüte.
Die MMM führen diese Tänze seit mehr als 70 Jahre auf - aber, selbstverständlich, nicht mit denselben Männern! Es ist uns eine größe Freude, zum ersten Mal in Berlin zu tanzen. Wir hoffen, daß unsere Aufführung Ihnen gefallen wird.
Howard Mitchell
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...Octave switching I will leave to the expander, if you want a violin down 3 octaves then select a flippin cello or double bass or whatever it is?.
If you insist on a piccolo double bass or a treble tuba then I will add the controls!
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Roy Whiteley.
If the controller sends the same note numbers, it doesn't matter which voice is selected on the expander. The same pitch will result no matter which voice is selected. It would be useful to able to transpose the whole instrument up or down an octave (or 2) and also when transmitting on two channels, to have them in different octaves to give a double reed effect.
Also for a decent expander, the voices for the different instruments in a family are not the same so transposing a violin down doesn't produce a double bass.
Howard Mitchell
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Coming to this topic rather late, having been away. It should be mentioned that playing the melody on the right hand side (and chords or parallel octaves on the left) is straight down the line orthodox English style. It is the way I play (so it must be right
).Chris
Without wishing to say just "me too", well , me too.
The Irish Standard isn't the only way of playing.
So I would have to strongly disagree with Franks comment "In most instances, the G/D is a great second instrument to be used solo or with one other player on guitar, for example." especially from the point of view of players in English dance bands or at English sessions. I was at an English session last night and it was the two players of C/G instruments who looked odd in their contortions to play common tunes in the English repertoire.
Howard Mitchell
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I mostly play a D/G instrument and I choose which row to use by which accompanying chord I need. If it's G, D and C and Am for a tune in G I tend to stay in the G row except for D's on the 3rd row when needed. I have a D on the pull below G which also helps to keep the melody on the right. But if Em is need then I cross to the D row. For tunes in D I usually "home" on the D row and use the A on the G row when the chord is A but use the G row sometimes when using a G chord. Also cross to the G row for lower notes in the D scale to allow the left hand to still get chords.
Have a listen to the Waterman's Hornpipe at http://www.hgmitchell.plus.com/hgm/watermanshornpipe.mp3 which start in D on the D row. The A at the end of the first phrase is on the G row to get the A chord. The Am sequence is entirely on the G row.
Conversely Nancy at http://www.hgmitchell.plus.com/hgm/nancy.mp3 is in D but unaccompanied and I use D, C#, B, A (D row), G, F#, E, D (G row) for the run down using just two fingers and four buttons.
Howard Mitchell
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Does anyone know who made Bill Whaley's Midi concertina, I've seen him play it and it gets a mention on
http://www.folkmusic.net/htmfiles/webrevs/bilda003.htm
I put together a MIDI melodeon some 10 years ago with Hall effect switches. A real problem as you say was with drift in the pressure sensor amp. In the end I put in a small two way pressure switch, centre off, which automatically zeroed the pressure sensor when it was in the off poition. I think the prototype is somewhere in the loft, it never got any further.
However, much better than MIDI (IMHO) is the fully modelled system used by Roland in their Virtual Accordion. Now if we could have bellows and button articulation in the same way, that would be a Virtual Concertina worth having.
Howard Mitchell
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Go to http://www.hgmitchell.co.uk/ , click Concertina then Blue Meany for photographs of a very unwealdy Duet which uses this "full wave rectification" system. It's owned by Neil Wayne in Derbyshire, UK. It's the only one of its kind that we know of. Amongst the photos you'll find a line drawing done by me to explain how it works.
Howard Mitchell
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I had lunch with Neil last Sunday and he thanks everyone for their concern and thoughts.
He's well but has re-evaluated the urgency of his many projects in Free-Reed records and his B&B and holiday letting business and is taking a much more measured approach to life.
Chris Algar joined us in the afternoon and we had a great time looking at a number of instruments from the "less than number 1000" which interest Neil to the "good playable condition" which interest Chris. We must have had 20 or more instrument spread across Neil's capacious living room.
Howard Mitchell
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The dating article is Wheatstone Anglos, numbers 50,000+ by Bob Gaskins, but it suggests a date of 1948-50 for Anglos 52217 - 53688, in which case I would expect no. 53061 to still have traditional slotted-in reeds.
I have 57xxx (I'm not at home, I can't rememer that last hree digits).
It has slotted-in reeds even though it's later than you might expect for this type of construction. They're alumin(i)um rather than brass which makes it a light instrument even with 40 buttons.
Howard Mitchell
Help Confirming A Possible Lachenal
in Concertina History
Posted
Mea Culpa. My brain's still got jet lag. I'm with you, and I just checked the inside of my baritone Lachenal which has a "split number" on one of the reed pans.
Howard