Ralph Jordan
-
Posts
186 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by Ralph Jordan
-
-
At one point Al Day was thinking of cutting down the Duet International CD release to 1 instead of 3 discs, because he didn't think that there was enough players around.... I think he's changed his mind now!
Is that so? I didn't realise he'd been so successful in rooting players out. So we're not as obscure as we thought then? Not sure whether to be pleased or sorry about that.
How many likely participants have you got Al? Is that a dark secret too?
I don't know how many he's got so far, He's keeping news strictly on a need to know basis! But, he must have at least 2 CD's sorted by now, from the little information I've got. And Duet players seem to be coming out of their various closets in droves! Must be the onset of Spring!
(BTW My audio links on the other thread are seperate to the tracks I've offered to Al. It didn't seem fair to let them escape just yet!)
-
Have a listen to some of my humble offerings on the record/video thread.
Record/video thread? Can you give direct links? May be I missed it.
I am very interested in Duet idea. One of the main reason I'm not playing one is lack of inspiring (to me) music from duet players. Another was low quality of my small Crane.
And by "lack of music" I don't mean the style or tunes I didn't like. I mostly was put off by the bellowing of sustained notes on the left. It's something I am struggling with the English as well.Tom Lawrence with his lightning sharp harmony is my example to follow in this case. Though sometimes he also uses those bits and it always hurts my ears..
If you go to the Concertina Music/Video thread and open up "New Year Demos" you'll find a couple of links to some audio. Hope you like them!
Regards Ralphie
-
In fact I might just stay in on my own and play with myself, which is what I was doing before I joined this mob!
This comment conjures up too many images for an old man like me! Lol!
In t'North we would normally say 'play wi' misen' or 'play on us oan' it flows more readily in the dialect than 'play by myself' but it obviously confuses Southern folk. No offence meant mi owd.!
None taken Owd Bean!
-
In fact I might just stay in on my own and play with myself, which is what I was doing before I joined this mob!
This comment conjures up too many images for an old man like me! Lol!
-
.
Looks like with the music going out of style these pros are gone and instrument is in serious decline. Whoever plays it well - share it with us. Then such chit-chats will be inclusive.
Well, I don't know about America, but I can't go to any session in the UK without tripping over yet another Duet player! Compared with 20 years ago, they seem to be breeding like rabbits over here! So, Serious decline? I think not. As for sharing it. Have a listen to some of my humble offerings on the record/video thread.
At one point Al Day was thinking of cutting down the Duet International CD release to 1 instead of 3 discs, because he didn't think that there was enough players around.... I think he's changed his mind now!
I don't have a list of all artists, so, I don't know how many are from the US. But, if you're out there, send him your recordings.
(or, do as I have done, post up examples here, for us all to hear). Not in any judgemental way, I hasten to add, but as I've said before, I'm always intrigued by the path that fellow Duettists take. Borders are not boundaries.
I would love to hear examples of your playing. Indeed, anyone from anywhere!. In this way we can all learn.
Pace Ralphie
-
May be it's me, but reading personal exchange on public forum, visited by people from different parts of the World, is not that exiting. No pushing, but I'd recommend using personal messaging or emails for reminiscences about who met who and where in the neighborhood. The topic was of interest, let's keep it up.
P.S.
Or at least post nice concertina related pictures or sound files from Birmingham or Black Diamond club.
-----------------------
From foggy San Francisco with Love.
Speaking only for myself, I found it interesting.
regards
John Wild
Me too!
I like to be able to keep up with (some of) what's going on in the concertina world, without having to leave the house.
Agreeing With Pete and John.
Yes. The original question of whether the Duet has a future has been answered.
It still remains a pertinent point that, there are very few players out there, and I see no problem in using this thread to stay in touch. If anyone doesn't like that. Hit the back button and go and read something else.
Personally, via this thread, I've got back in touch with someone who lives a long way from me. I think that that is a good thing. Discussing music doesn't have to be merely a cerebral process. It also involves human interactions.
Would love to hear stories of Duet players from other countries too. I might not understand the context, or know the people involved. But I would find it interesting to read.
Regards Ralphie
-
I'd love a copy of the pdf's as well.
Anyone is welcome to use them, but if you get to perform them in public or pass on to anyone else I'd appreciate your mentioning where you got them from, and of course feel free to make improvements...
Anahata
Shorely Shome Mishtake.
Feel free to make improvements? (should read)
Feel free to make big payments!
-
P.S. Concertina players (especially Anglo) might be interested in this too, if you haven't spotted it under "related" or visited my YouTube channel:
Anahata
Oooooh!
Must have a look.
Never understood how you did that on an Anglo!
Cheers Mate
Ralphie
-
Well I hope it has a future, as it's what I play. I took up the maccann as my first and only concertina, after having played piano, guitar and piano accordion. I was a bit at sea for a couple of years, then it sort of fell into place. Now it's like second nature, I can busk stuff, join in on sessions etc.
There are some problems, of course, certain tunes turn tricky corners and no amount of fingering will get round them. Also the odd position of the D-sharp/E-flat button makes it tricky to play in any key flatter than F or sharper than A. But I'm sure a bit more perseverance will improve things.
I certainly don't limit myself to a 'classical' style, or any other. I can knock out morris tunes as danceable as any anglo. accompany song like an English, even play Irish tunes (but that's a different thread). All I need is to stop playing so many wrong notes.
All in all, I just love the thing. When I see people bogged down on other types of 'tina and casting envious eyes at my duet, I just know it's the right box for me.
Hi maccanic. welcome.
I know what you mean when you produce your instrument and the reaction is one of incredulity.! "How do you play that" is very normal!
Never mind. you have joined a small but refined coterie of afficianados. Hope to meet you soon.
Keep playing!
Ralphie
-
Well I hope it has a future too - not sure about a "great" future though. To me its still seen by many as a specialist type of an instrument, and because its not so abundant as the other types, (and in my opinion not so easy to learn as the other systems), not chosen very often by people new to the concertina world.
I came into the maccann duet world about 3 years ago. My main instrument is melodeon and ive been playing for morris for 25 years. I initially played anglo and managed to get to a fairly proficient level. However, when I heard the maccann I felt that was the concertina sound I was looking for.
I dont read music, but can usually pick up a tune quite quickly. It is true to say I have found the maccann a very illogical system. I agree with Ralph, you have to be quite musically exceptional to pick one up and get a tune out of it in 5 minutes. Ive persevered over the years and have developed a love hate relationship with it. At times ive felt ive gone as far as I could, then put it aside for a month or so, concentrated on the melodeon, and then returned to it again later. Strange, when you do this, the passage that was giving you so much trouble in the first place seems to have sorted itself out then ?
Despite the difficulties I can see myself never giving up. Im like Irene, I came to the Maccann when I was in my 50s, im never going to be an exceptional player, but I like sitting down on my own and playing a tune, im playing it for me not for anybody else.
When I first started I played the melody line on the right hand and purposefully didnt do anything with the left. I wanted to be able to play up and down the scales fast, and play tunes instinctively. I can do this now quite quickly, and playing chords on the left hand have also instinctively happened. I never cease to be amazed by the different sounds that I find. I think the maccann is an instrument that you can play for the rest of your life and still not find out all of its secrets.
I have 3 maccanns - a 46 + 61 Wheatstone, and a 61 Edeophone. I disagree with Dirge about a 46 not being big enough, it depends on what you want to do with it, and what music you want to play ? Its fine for Morris, and for some song accompanyment, but I can see its limitation for classical music.
I also do not think that it matters what music you play on your maccann. Ok it was originally designed for classical music, and ive heard it described as the concert grand of the concertina world. The music manuals posted on line do not help me a lot except to provide me with the charts explaining what the name of the note are for each button.
I think the maccann virtuosos of the future will be those really talented young people who do not restrict themselves to what we historically think a duet should sound and be played like.
Maybe theres some styles of playing that still hasnt been developed yet ?
Regards to everybody.
David.
ps How are you Dirge ? I missed you when you came over last year.
Ralph ive met with you a few times at the Radway during Sidmouth Folk Week.
Irene, im not sure it was you that I met one lunch time in the Radway last year ? You had Ralphs Aeola, and let me have a go on it ?
David.
Hi David. Yes will be at Sidmouth this year. Hope to meet up again
I know what you mean. Whilst doing the recordings I'd often come to a part of tune, and really struggle. After hurling the beast into a corner (metaphorically!) I'd go away, and next day, could play it easily...Then, next day (maybe to do a repair or whatever), I can't play the damn passage again!
It's all in the mind I suppose.
As a general rule, whenever I meet a fellow concertinist that I haven't met before (putting systems on one side for a moment) I'm always fascinated by what that player might bring to the table, so to speak. Which is the endearing appeal of the concertina. One can play in so many styles. I'm constantly surprised. Even new players occasionally come up with some chord sequence that I hadn't thought of.
This is particularly true of Duet players. As Irene said many posts ago, there are so few of us, that we all seem to play in a vacuum, developing our own distinctive style, without any input from other players. (Sweeping generalisation I know, but, hopefully you get the point!)
With the release of Duet International later in the year, maybe all of us Duettists will get to hear what other players are getting up to!
But, whether playing by ear or from dots. The main point is to enjoy the sounds you are making.
Future for the Duet?
Pretty Rosy I would say.
Regards to all players
Ralphie
-
Give them a Duet and you'll get an hours worth of strangled cat noises before you can stand it no longer and take it off him/her.
So, yes the learning curve is far steeper to begin with, But. with an Anglo or an English It can get highly complicated the more you play, The Duet gets easier!
With all due respect, the above is 100% incorrect. Duets (Bandoneons and Chemnitzers aside) are spectacularly easy to pick up melodies with. As with anything, if you've got talent and stubbornness, the more you play anything, the more complicated the music gets, the more easy it is to a player to get deeper. I tried three types of duets and am quite surprised at the ingenuity of their designs, intuitiveness, with which one can figure out melodies and chords. But Duet naturally takes player into fuller accompaniment and many jump into more complex music they can manage. That's it. I tried three types of duets and am quite surprised at the ingenuity of their designs, intuitiveness, with which one can figure out melodies and chords. But I like English the best - it forces one to be selective and deliberate, while giving lots of harmonic opportunities. An amateur's safety valve that Duet doesn't provide.
Hey m3838
This isn't a war!. As I've said many times, it's horses for courses. You like the English, I like the Duet. Problem? Don't think so. But this thread is about Duets, do they have a future. Nobody has made a snide remark about other systems. It's just that for us Duet players, we have a system that suits us.
It's a cerebral thing as to why. I stand by my statement that it's pretty easy to get a tuneful sound out of an English or an Anglo within a couple of minutes. Not so with the Duet. You really have to want to learn to play the Duet, and it takes a very long time. After 35 years, I haven't sussed it yet! That is the joy of the beast.
The thread is more about the availability of Duets in the current market place.
So back to the main theme of the discussion. Does anyone know of new cheap Duets (any system) out there. I have a few people who might like to take the plunge but don't have 1000 sovs to spare (who does!)
-
Topic moved at request of original poster.
While I'm here, my impression is just that duet is a bit steeper learning curve right at the beginning. In the end, all concertinas require hard work (and reward it) to play well.
Ken
You're absolutely right Ken.
Give someone an Anglo and in 10 seconds they can play 2 chords...person jumps about shouting I can play!
Give someone an English and they'll find the little triangles that make chords quite easily and will shout I can play!
Give them a Duet and you'll get an hours worth of strangled cat noises before you can stand it no longer and take it off him/her.
So, yes the learning curve is far steeper to begin with, But. with an Anglo or an English It can get highly complicated the more you play, The Duet gets easier!
And Irenes quite right...The speed that some typists type at is amazing..I can't do it. 2 fingers me. But, I never trained to type.
Anyway, as Irene says lets hope that the Duet International set changes attitudes. I can't wait to hear it, I've beeen told a few names that are on it, and to say I'm salivating at the prospect is an understatement.
Oh and that bloke Jordan might throw something out later in the year too!
And to answer Irenes question. I see more Duet players around nowadays here in the UK than ever before. Apart from the playing side, I think that it's just a lack of instruments particularly at entry level. I don't know if any of the cheaper makers of English/Anglo have dabbled in Duets (anyone know, because I've never seen one!), so, you have to make the expensive leap into the high end old boxes (or a new Hayden)which could be very off putting to do so on a whim.
I'm always happy to talk and demonstrate my box, and other Duet players are the same! (we might play the instrument from hell, but, we're quite nice and normal in other ways!
Duets are also about at Music stalls at festivals, but, just mucking about for 10 minutes would probably just put people off the idea.
There isn't an easy solution.
Anyway my 2 pennorth
Ralphie
-
Hi Ralphie
Looking forward to your CD!
BTW, why not do a nice Irish tune on duet and post it here That could settle the matter for a while
Stop stirring!!
I'd be eaten alive,It's apparently bad enough playing ITM (How I hate that term) on an English, let alone a Duet!
And as an aside. I've finished my CD "The Attic Tapes" about an hour ago. 17 tracks of Duet Delight! One whole hour of fun and games for all the family.
I'm holding off releasing it though, don't want to spoil Al Days Duet International project, and anyway, there may be some duplication of tracks.
So, I won't be posting any more of my waxings on here, (or indeed anywhere). So come on Mr Day...Get on with it! I've got a CD that is hot to trot!!!
(Just realised that I said most of that above! Ho hum. But 2 more tracks recorded yesterday afternoon. 1 Hour almost exactly! Better stop now or it won't fit on a CD!)
-
Hi Ralph.........just to add that I very much enjoyed your two recordings.
By coincidence I've just been having a discussion that only a concertina aficiondo could enjoy over the relative merits of english versus anglo versus duet.
Please don't blush but I think your playing and musicality represents all that is desirable in a duet concertina ( and its owner ,of course).
I loved it.
Robin
PS any idea where there is sheet music for Vipscottis ? Nice piece of tunage.
Robin. Thanks for your kind words. much appreciated.
With regards to system differences, I think its just horses for courses. I took up the Duet without even knowing that there were different systems! It was just the first one I came across. Having grappled with it for months, I wasnt going to change!!! I find the English versus Irish spats on this board a bit tiresome I have to say though. Does any of it really matter?
Some systems suit some styles of playing, thats all. Vive La Difference!
As for Vipschottis. I learnt it from the playing of a great band from Gotland, Gunnfjauns Kapell. I think it was written by their guitarist Jan Ekedal. Have never seen any written dots for it though.
And actually, I rarely play from dots. I use them as an Aide memoire, but normally I'm too impatient to play something to bother with actually learning dots, and just go steaming in. Sometimes it works, other times I make a complete pigs ear of it, but isn't that the joy of playing?
None of my arrangements come out as planned normally, so I call them variations on a theme! (Thats my excuse!)
I've now realised that I've got 50 minutes of stuff down now, (15 tracks) and am contemplating actually selling them to all you rich people out there!
But, I'll hold on for a bit, as some of the tracks will, hopefully appear on the Duet International set, And thats a proper commercial release, so I wouldn't want to spoil that.
Therefore, I won't be posting any more up for the time being.
Once again, thanks to everyone for your kind and generous comments.
Kind regards to all
Ralphie
-
Hi all.
I think I've used up my quota of bits to upload stuff, but, if you go to the "OMNVOICE" website. search for my page. Theres a new tune sitting there and waiting to be listened to!
Appropriately named Yrsno (Whirling Snow!) by Mats Eden.
It was strange recording it, while looking out of the window and seeing exactly that!
Enjoy
Ralphie
-
Sarah.
No need for the snow piling attachments here!
-
Lovely playing, I hope Alan Day spots this because I would think it's a strong contender for inclusion on Duet International.
More please!
Pete
Do not worry Pete, Ralphie's recordings are already in and on Graham's desk.
If anyone doubts the capabilities of a Duet just closely listen to this playing. Each note is separated one from the other, No bellows hesitance, Emphasis on certain notes by bellows control. Could be an Anglo with the chunky sound of the chords.It is a Duet. Lovely playing Ralphie " That's the way to do it" (Punch)
Al
Thanks Alan. I suppose that because I've played for Dance as well as accompanying singers, I've tried to get that Anglo bounce when I need to. Agreed it doesn't really come naturally to the Duet, and you have to keep the left hand under control (a sound thrashing often helps!).
I'm only doing these as it's too damn cold to leave the house!
-
Lovely playing, I hope Alan Day spots this because I would think it's a strong contender for inclusion on Duet International.
More please!
Pete
Hi Tallship Already on board the good ship Duet Int (so to speak)
All done for Alan.
These are just some extra bits and bobs. But many thanks again. Lightness of touch Eh? Never heard it called that before!!!! Cheers
-
Thanks for the nice words peoples. You've made a happy man very old!
It's a 56 MacCann Duet.
A little bit of double tracking occurs, and addition of guitars bouzouki and bass (maybe mandolin as well? can't remember!) just to liven it up a bit!.
Sarah. Don't know whether Navy will fit on an anglo...But hey, worth a try!
Glad you all enjoyed them
Raphie
-
Due to the inclement weather here in the UK, I've just recorded this demo.
Hope you like it (Please be generous!)
Oh and Happy New Year to all
Ralphie
Oh and heres another one. Hot off the computer!
-
1
-
-
Due to the inclement weather here in the UK, I've just recorded this demo.
Hope you like it (Please be generous!)
Oh and Happy New Year to all
Ralphie
-
2
-
-
Excellent stuff. even the continuity gaffes were funny!.
All you guys need to do is get Tom Waits on vocals..!
Keep it up.
Ralphie (From London Town)
-
Although I love Irish music on the Anglo, I can't really see how one can get the "bounce" with a Duet. (Similar problem with playing for Morris).
But, the Duet has other advantages over the English and the Anglo.
It's just a case of Horses for Courses really!
Room for us all!
But....If there is a Duet player out there who knows different, I'd love to meet him/her!!!
Ralphie
-
1
-
1
-
-
Tony.
Thank God you called in here. You have a very valuable and desirable imstrument there. Can't really guess, but we are talking thousands of pounds probably. And couple that with the written provenance...Wooo!
Luckily, all the people on this board, while being insanely envious (!) wouldn't dream of trying to rip you off.
I'm so glad you came here, and not E Bay.
I'm not a Jeffries Anglo player, but, keep looking, and there will be one along in a minute!!!
If you really want to sell it (and the documents)......
1. Hold out for the highest bid
2. Try and make sure it goes to someone who's going to play it. A lot of concertinas become "Trophies"...Stuck on a shelf and then forgotten. Which really annoys me!
Anyway, Happy Christmas, thanks for looking in, and let us know what happens in the end.
Ralphie
(actually, I've just had another look at the photos, and it's nothing special really....but, I'll take it off your hands for a tenner?. No call for this sort of instrument nowadays...I'd be doing you a favour, honest guv!)
Does the duet have a great future... discuss?
in General Concertina Discussion
Posted
Hi Daniel.
Maybe duettists are just more isolated in the US? There aren't that many players here in the UK. I can think of about 15 or 16. It's just that we bump into each other at festivals/sessions etc more often.
Also, until the forthcoming CD release appears, there hasn't been much in the way of recordings available. Certainly not of tune playing. It has made numerous appearances as an accompanying instrument (Chris Coe etc), but apart from Iris Bishops band album of a few years ago (which may not have made it across the pond), I can't think of many others.
It would be interesting to know, just how many were made in the past, and I'm sure that a lot of them are just languishing in an attic somewhere.
Maybe Crane Duets are rarer because of their Salvation Army connection, and tend to become family heirlooms "We must keep that, Grandad used to play it in the band" sort of thing.
Cheers Ralphie